Help with 92Q Pulleys

[firstq]

Over Friday the PS pulley seized and started to burn the PS belt - the car was parked so I switched off the car immediately.

Got in, repalced all 3 pulley and the belts.

Need help with the right torque of pulleys and belts:

Question #1: When the tensioner bolt is loose - the pulley itself is tightened using the centre bolt [using the socket wrench] - should the pulley move freely when trying to spin by hand? Remembering that the tension on the tension rod is loose (so the belt is limp right now over the pulley so no resistance from the belt is there).

With the PS pulley - w/o the belt over it - if I tighthen the centre pulley nut (the one that holds the pulley in place) using the socket wrench - I almost can not move the pulley by hand anymore - it takes a lot of force to move - is that normal?

Question #2: Once the tensioner is also tighetend up (the blet now is tight on over the pulley)- should the pulley be able to move by hand or not? Remebering that now the centre nut is tight and the tensioner is tight as well. Should there be difference of resistance on pulley movement b/w test #1 and test #2

Question #3. Using bare hands and a socket wrench - I should be tightening the centre pulley nut with how ever much pressure I could exert on my own, right? I remember using a lot of force to remove the centre nut from the old pulleys - In fact I had to use a power hand gun to loosen up the nuts from the pulleys.

Right now If i tighten up the PS pulley enough (the cntre nut and not the tensioner) and start up the car, and loud shrill sound comes from the front as if something is running w/o oil (that type of sound).

Please see if you can proivde any help.

Thanks

[azskygod]

Sounds to me like you have the washer and bearing cover on there in the wrong order! From the nut in, the order should be: Nut, bearing cover, washer, tensioner pulley, washer(s), spindle. The unit should spin freely at all times with no binding. Assemble everything in that order finger tight, and adjust the belt tension with the adjuster bolt BEFORE tightening down the center nut.

AZSKYGOD

[firstq]

Thanks for y our help.

Are you sure the order is "Nut, bearing cover, washer, tensioner pulley, washer(s), spindle. "

I somehow remember " Nut, washer, bearing cover, tensioner pulley, washer(s), spindle. "

Can you or anyone else please confirm - this makes sense. Interestingly, the only way I could get the PS pulley to work (move freely once the centre nut is tightened) is by putting a washer in b/w pulley and the bearing cover.

If confirmed, I will need to redo all the 3 pulleys.

Thanks

[azskygod]

Yes, the order is correct. I've R&R'd mine repeatedly in the last few weeks. The washers should ride against the inside bearing race on both sides of the tensioner pulley. The metal-on-metal sound you are hearing is the edge of the bearing cover rubbing against the face of the tensioner pulley. There's not enough clearance if things are in the wrong order. That's why the extra washer seems to have solved your problem.

It's probably not necessary to take them back apart to remove the extra washers. I seriously doubt they would cause a problem.

AZSKYGOD

[firstq]

Thanks AZSkyGod.

Looks like I will be beneath the car yet again tomorrow evening.

[Q451990]

I echo what azskygod says... The order is correct! It's also possible to put the pully backwards in there, so make sure that's correct. If not, you'll start it up and hear a loud metal to metal scraping sound! They should turn freely and noise free when you're all done.

Heath

[firstq]

Thanks guys:

One thing I did notice last night while I was under there that if I order it the way you guys are suggesting, there is a little play in the pulley when I am all buttoned up [tightened the centre nut & the tensioner] - so much so that if I wiggle the pulley [by hand and with some force], it has some play [very little, but it is feel-able].

Is that right? or is it an indication that I have not tightened up enough the centre nut? I mean with the wrench I did to the extent I could - I may have perhaps a quarter or half turn maximum left on the centre nut if I get some special torque wrench [long handle] to further tighten it-

Thanks

[DAEDALUS]

Not right at all. The 2 washers should sandwhich the inner race and clamp it down real snug when you tighten the nut down. Or are the bearings just loose? Shouldn't be if they're new.

[azskygod]

At least one of the tensioner pulleys has 2 washers between the pulley and the spindle, though I don't recall which one(s). They seem to be included to center the pulley with the path of the belt. Are you running out of threads?

AZSKYGOD

[firstq]

All the 3 pulleys have the same setup - atleeast what came off of t he old puley. The tensioner bolt itslef - then one big fat washer (the crank pulley has a fatter washer, the other pulleys have same widhth washer - then the pulley itslef - then the smaller width washer - then the pulley cover {small black metal cover]} then the centre nut.

This is what you guys are saying the right order , right?

http://members.cox.net/azheer/nico-001.jpg

If I did that - the PS pulley had some wiggling in there when the cnetre nut was all tightened up.

[azskygod]

If the pulleys are new, there should be very little (1 or 2mm) side-to-side play in the bearings. The nut only requires 22~25 ft/lbs of torque, so if it's worn bearing runout you are feeling, tightening it more will not help. As long as they are new and spin smoothly, I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

AZSKYGOD

[firstq]

Redid the pulleys as suggested sandwiching them with washers on both sides - no noises since then.

Thanks for all your help guys

[firstq]

Moral of the story - "these master techs are BS techs".

The last time the car went to the Master Techs, the true masters struck again - they bolted the pulleys only with the back washer while the fron washers were bolted ontop of the bearing cover - and I tried to put them back as they came off caught me off hand.

I guess this happens everywhere. Last I checked my brakes, there were no shims in the pads, when I opened up the plenum - two bolts were missing - actually they were in the plenum valley. Everytime these so called Techs have attended an item, they never failed to leave their mark behind....