HELP! trouble with auto -> manual swap

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

alright,the transmission is on the engine, all bolted up and ready to go. no problems with any of the mechanics of the swap. However, the manual transmission has 5 sensors on it (4th, 5th, reverse light, speed sensor, and neutral sensor). I know that the 4th and 5th sensors aren't important and that the auto transmission ECU is fine (I have a manual ECU just in case). I have the complete auto transmission and its harness. I have the complete manual transmission harness as well. What do I need to do electronics-wise to get this done??? SOMEBODY HELP, this is the only thing keeping me from being done! I've read over the S14 swap directions numerous times, but it doesn't make sense to me and I don't think it is the same for the S13 anyways. Thanks for all of your help!

Post by **180fan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

there are a few ways to do it. Tenkawa and I have mentioned them earlier. search for em, I did a post on how I did my wiring in the Online Nissan Mechanic a little while ago.

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....68158

that's 180's write up.

I personally find it easier to wire your reverse lights from the inhibitor switch (plug next to the passenger fuse box) than to work at it from inside the car. It's easier to keep track of because you have colored wires instead of black and white wires. Also, you're working straight from the transmission and connecting it to the chassis harness.

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

thanks guys, couple more questions180fan, could you post a pic of the two alterations you made? I think I get it, but I'd like some visual confirmation as well. Also, what do these changes actually do?

I don't think I've made it as far as you guys are pointing me though :-(.I have the 4 sensors that connect directly to the transmission, as well as the VSS, all hooked up to their corresponding plugs. Those all connect "under" the car. However, when I get into the engine bay, there's a bunch of other plugs and I get lost. I've sorted out several of them, but by my impression I should leave the stock wires in place (starter, etc) for many of them, so should I just cut these from the manual transmission harness? Essentially I've got signals coming from the transmission through the harness, but I've got nowhere for them to go because I don't know what to plug into where...On the fuse box, there are three connectors that are attached, which is where the auto transmission hooked up. Do I need any of these? A picture of where you guys have put your plugs and such would be really helpful I think.I'm REALLY confused. Thanks for the help guys, just bear with me a little bit longer please

Post by **180fan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

To tell you the truth, I'm not exactly sure which one does which. I took the advice of a local guy who'd done alot of these on how to do the at to mt wiring. I'll take a pic probably tomorrow when I go for a drive. But as testimony as to wether or not my setup works also, I haven't been hit when I back up so yeah I figure the reverse works. lol...yeah that's kindufa bad way to test it but I've been too bloody lazy to ask friends to stand behind my car while it's in reverse. lol. I'll take a pic of the wire from the engine bay too. That should get this deal clarified. If not you might wanna search for Tenkawa's post on it. He's got the nitty gritty posted already just...I'm too lazy to search for it... they call me...the three toed sloth...

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

What I do is I connect the sensors directly to the harness. Go out to radio shack or advance auto and pick up some wire. i think I grabbed some 18 gauge, but it's been so long, I can't remember.

Next to the passenger side fusebox should be three plugs. you want the second plug down. It's called the inhibitor switch. It's function is to turn on lights and let the Auto Control Unit (ACU) know what gear has been selected. All you're worried about connecting is the reverse wires.

Slide the plug out of its retainer clip, and get ready to cut some wires. The green/blue and green/white wires are the ones to cut, like in my picture here.

(don't worry about that third wire [brown/yello]. That was for a convertible only operation)

Now run some wire down to the reverse sensor (you'll have to cut the plug off first). And just hook the wires up to your newly run wires. The sensor is non-polar, so there's no correct way to hook them up.

See how I did it? I just used some butt connectors and ran some length of black wire down.

The only thing left to do is to connect the park/neutral switch. It's located at the bottom of the passenger side fusebox. The best thing to do is to scavenge the plug for that off the old transmission harness. It will have a thick brown and a thick black wire on it. Cut and butt connect them together. Now, when you start the car, make sure you have the clutch pushed in, cause the car CAN start if you don't, and you might damage something if you leave it in gear.

See the yellow connector? That was for the park/neutral switch. (also note the location of the inhibitor switch? in the middle)

squirtle

Post by **180fan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

The big wires Tenkawa has crossed up front (one has is black with a red stripe) is the same as the one I crossed. Here's the thing that's a bit different from my job vs. his.

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

okay, I think I've got it together. Gonna go for it tomorrow morning. Here's just a quick rundown of what I've gathered, correct me if I've got anything wrong.I pull the male plug of the inhibitor switch (middle grey box w/ 8 wires going into it) out and cut the green/blue and green/white plugs at the end of that male plug. I then connect the two wires from the reverse plug (on the transmission) to the freshly cut green/blue and green/white ends on the male plug. Then, just plug male plug back into the inhibitor switch female plug. This will give me reverse lights.To start the car, I essentially pull the fusebox up enough to find the park/neutral plug which has a thick brown and thick black wire going into it. I cut these two wires and connect them together, essentially plugging the two wires into each other. I should use the plug from the auto transmission for this, correct, since I don't think the manual transmission harness even has this plug on it.OR to accomplish the same thing, do what 180 did up in the console where the auto shifter has 2 plugs going into it. I find the plug (of these 2) which has 2 black and 2 white wires going into it. This is where I get confused on this option. Maybe be a bit more explicit as to what gets soldered together.

I know this is a big pain, but you have no idea how much I appreciate this guys.

Post by **elesjuan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

I'm getting ready to start the nitty gritty of the auto to manual swap. My concern is the hole for the clutch master cylinder. Do you have to eyeball that and drill a hole with a hole saw? That kind of has me worried, the rest of it shouldn't be much of a problem for me I dont think. Last concern is about the ECU, will the auto ecu work or do I need to pickup a five speed unit? Thanks!

-scott

Post by **180fan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

sorry that pic's not all that great. If you have a look at the connectors, you'll see two plugs. One of those two plugs has only two wires. Just cut off the end and cross em. The other one has 4 wires. There will be two loops when you're done crossing the wires on that one. just make sure that you put a black to white wire together and that it's crossed to the wire right next to the one you're gonna solder to. If that makes any sense...but yeah you should be able to look at your wiring and compare it to the post Tenkawa was good enough to search for and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I think Tenkawa's way is clearer than my way but both ways do work.

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

93anthracite wrote:okay, I think I've got it together. Gonna go for it tomorrow morning. Here's just a quick rundown of what I've gathered, correct me if I've got anything wrong.I pull the male plug of the inhibitor switch (middle grey box w/ 8 wires going into it) out and cut the green/blue and green/white plugs at the end of that male plug. I then connect the two wires from the reverse plug (on the transmission) to the freshly cut green/blue and green/white ends on the male plug. Then, just plug male plug back into the inhibitor switch female plug. This will give me reverse lights.To start the car, I essentially pull the fusebox up enough to find the park/neutral plug which has a thick brown and thick black wire going into it. I cut these two wires and connect them together, essentially plugging the two wires into each other. I should use the plug from the auto transmission for this, correct, since I don't think the manual transmission harness even has this plug on it.OR to accomplish the same thing, do what 180 did up in the console where the auto shifter has 2 plugs going into it. I find the plug (of these 2) which has 2 black and 2 white wires going into it. This is where I get confused on this option. Maybe be a bit more explicit as to what gets soldered together.

I know this is a big pain, but you have no idea how much I appreciate this guys.

The sensors should be used from a manual transmission.

elesjuan wrote:I'm getting ready to start the nitty gritty of the auto to manual swap. My concern is the hole for the clutch master cylinder. Do you have to eyeball that and drill a hole with a hole saw? That kind of has me worried, the rest of it shouldn't be much of a problem for me I dont think. Last concern is about the ECU, will the auto ecu work or do I need to pickup a five speed unit? Thanks!

-scott

The auto ecu is the same as the manual ecu. the auto control is done via the auto control unit. it's a seperate unit located on the other side of the passenger foot well.

you will need a drill, and you will need a hole saw, but the markings should be embossed in the firewall. IIRC

Post by **elesjuan** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

tenkawa_akito wrote:The sensors should be used from a manual transmission.

The auto ecu is the same as the manual ecu. the auto control is done via the auto control unit. it's a seperate unit located on the other side of the passenger foot well.

you will need a drill, and you will need a hole saw, but the markings should be embossed in the firewall. IIRC

Cool! This will be my 4th car which I have turned from automatic to manual and is the very first which there wasn't just a cap or plug to remove for installation of the clutch master cylinder.

2 4th Gen Camaros1 1st gen Ford Ranger (turbo)and now the 240

Its fun.

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

this conversions are a lot of fun, and not at all hard to do. that's what i love about these things

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

which sensors are you talking about?Otherwise, is my post correct in what I need to do in a step-by-step format. Just to make sure, the 8-wire plug that is part of the manual transmission harness will plug into the the female connector for the inhibitor switch, correct? I think my whole plan revolves around that

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

no. that plug will not plug into the inhibitor. the inhibitor is an auto plug not found on manual cars.

you have to cut and lengthen the wires like what i showed.

Quote »I should use the plug from the auto transmission for this, correct, since I don't think the manual transmission harness even has this plug on it.[/quote]i thought you were saying you wanted to use the sensors from the auto transmission. my mistake. it was late

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

Which transmission harness will I be using as my base? Up until now, I thought that I would be using the manual harness, but now I'm wondering if I should be using the auto harness and just splicing in the two manual sensors.

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

okay, here's my new plan of attack:I have the manual and automatic transmission harness in thier entirety. I have all of the plugs, male and female, and nothing has been cut. Based on what I'm hearing, I need to...Use auto transmission harness as the core for the alterations. Cut the two wires that we've discussed on the male plug of the inhibitor switch. Run wires down to the reverse light plug (which has been removed from the manual transmission harness) and connect them up. Is this what you're saying?I looked at the plug for the inhibitor and none of the color schemes for the wires are the same. However, shouldn't all the wires do the same thing, regardless of the color of the wire? I.E. regardless of what color the wire is, as long as I cut the correct wire then that is what matters.Tenkawa, I'm up in Harrisonburg, VA, so if I can't get it right this time, I think I might need your phone number so that I can actually talk to you about it.

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

what year car is it? i know the 89-90 models have a slightly different wiring schematic than the 91-94.

fire me an email for my phone number. I'm heading to my friend's house tonight who is a wiring genious on these cars, and i'll ask him which lower harness to use, because i honestly don't know.

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

the car is a 91 hatch. I'm using a 93 parts car (coupe) as the donor for the transmission.

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

And the wires on the second plug look different? that shouldn't be. Check the other plugs to see if someone has been in there and didn't just put the wrong plug somewhere. An easy way to find out if you have the right plug is to take a paper clip and use it to jumper the correct plug pins and see if your reverse lights come one (car needs to be in the ON position for this one)

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

didn't get to test the lights out today. All of the wiring looked like it had just come from the factory, 12 years ago. Worn like it should have been and doesn't look like it has ever been tampered with.This is what I have my plugs like right now on the transmission The plug with 2 circles on it is the reverse light switch, according to the FSM

Just for clarification, the middle plug is the only one I will be doing anything with, correct? All the rest will be empty once this is completed?

This is what MY inhibitor switch looks like. It is still attached to the automatic transmission. Maybe now you understand my extreme confusion

Picture of the two plugs in the console. None of this seems to match at all with the info I've gotten. Hopefully soon this will be all cleared up. I'm getting anxious to start driving my 240. Tenkawa, I'll give you a ring tomorrow morning when I get out to the car (it's at my bud's house cuz he has a garage).

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

dammit, NICO doesn't seem to like WTDR. Anybody want to host these four pics for me? 160k, so it's not that big. Feel free to delete once this is all worked out

Post by **AllTurBo** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

I can't seem to find the inhibitor switch on my 94 convertible. I have 3 plugs near the fuse box, one has two prongs, one has 4, and the other has 6. I got the car to start by jumping the plug with two prongs, but I have no reverse lights and no convertible top operation. My harness near the shifter has the same config as 93anthracite, one plug has 5 wires, the other has 4. Can I somehow jump the wires at the shifter to make it think it's always in park? this way I at least have top operation, and I can figure out the reverse lights later. does anyone know what wires to jump at the shifter for the Park sensor?

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

you only have three plugs? Or are you not counting the one under the fuse box which has the park/neutral plug? It's a two pronged connector and it's plug from the A/T harness should have a thick brown and a black wire.

Notice how both of our pictures have a two wire plug at the top (not used), a 7 wire plug (inhibitor), brown plug (not used), and under the fuse box is another two wire plug (park/neutral).

you want the middle one he pointed to. that's the switch where you can trick the car into thinking it's in reverse and in park. To have the top working you need to jumped the park wire directly to the constant voltage wire. This way the car thinks it's in park at all times.

brown/yellow to green/blue. just jump them direct like I did with the pink connector.

in all honesty, you can do this without messing with the shifter plugs

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

ok, so are you supposed to connect the brown/yellow and green/blue or are you supposed to connect green/blue and green/white? I'm confused now and this may explain why my car isn't starting. Here you say to use the brown/yellow, and above you say the brown/yellow is a convertible only operation.

Post by **AllTurBo** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

There is a two prong plug near the fuse box closer to the battery side. They are thicker wires but I dont remember the colors, once they are jumped together the car should start. In the pic it's kinda hard to see, but the wire I jumped is right above the battery, betwen the battery and the Coolant reservoir. I can take some better pics when I go to my garage tonight if you want.

Post by **AsanBBoy** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

Hey not to steal the thread, but I myself am starting the conversion. I've already taken the manual transmission off the donor car (90 240sx) and now i'm at the point where i'm ready to drop the auto transmission in my 92' 240sx. All i need to do is get off the bellhousing and the oil cooler lines. Now my questions is what did you guys do with your oil cooler lines? Plug them? Also will my wiring be different than the one in this thread(I am swaping in the sohc transmission to a dohc car, same but maybe the wiring is different)?

Post by **93anthracite** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:08 pm

looks like you did the same thing that I did, except my pile won't start :-). Could you try to take some better pics when you get the chance? I'll try to get some pics of mine as it currently sits as well.

HELP! trouble with auto -> manual swap

HELP! trouble with auto -> manual swap

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