I got my car back together, took the time to make sure everything was correctly hooked up and everything. I take a breath and turn the key, it doesnt turn over, but it tries. i recheck my spark plugs and eyeball everything. try again. same result. wont start. the only thing i can think of is maybe hte distributor gear is off by one tooth, i marked it before i took it off and put it back on exatly like i took it off. thats the only thing i can think of thats causing m car not to run at all.
PLEASE help me check my timing to make sure its correct.
i looked at the article but the crank pulley looks different from mine, the notches that are supposed to line up with the timing pin are all hte same size and color, which one is top dead center? how should my cam lobes on cyl#1 look when at tdc? facing outwards away from eachother, right?
once again, please point me in hte right direction here. thanks in advance....
Modified by d!ck at 11:19 AM 9/27/2005
HELP! Timing off?
Re: HELP! Timing off? (d!ck)
my crank pulley also stops after maybe a half turn and wont budge, the chains are tight at this point. if i back it off a bit, i can proceed for a while before this happens again. using the nicoclub article on fixing timing chain rattle, im using the second mark from the left as tdc, but for some reason when i am at this mark, i cant see that the cam lobes for cly 1 are facing outside away. im so screwed at this point. i really need someone to tell me what i should do.
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DjPantsSpecR
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:49 pm
- Car: 93 Nissan MS13
92 Nissan RMS13
uh oh... the part where you say the crank pulley stops moving, is kinda scary to me.... it brings me back to the day of bent valves.
Thats right, the second mark from the left is TDC. When you are there your cam lobes should look just lke they do in the sticky. However pay no attention to the marks on the gears on the intake side in that particular picture. The lobes face outward, but also upward slightly. Its really not possible to get it wrong if you line up the colored marks on the timing chain with the marks on the gears.
If you werent exactly sure where everything was supposed to go and you buttoned it up and tried to fire her there is a damn good chance you may have bent valves, which is going to be a large problem. it really scares me the part where you say the crank pulley just stopped, because i personally know what thats like
Thats right, the second mark from the left is TDC. When you are there your cam lobes should look just lke they do in the sticky. However pay no attention to the marks on the gears on the intake side in that particular picture. The lobes face outward, but also upward slightly. Its really not possible to get it wrong if you line up the colored marks on the timing chain with the marks on the gears.
If you werent exactly sure where everything was supposed to go and you buttoned it up and tried to fire her there is a damn good chance you may have bent valves, which is going to be a large problem. it really scares me the part where you say the crank pulley just stopped, because i personally know what thats like
Re: HELP! Timing off? (d!ck)
heres a ****ing update for you:
well even though i was using two guides and the nissan fsm im pretty sure i effed up my car. i had it towed to the shop this morning because it refuses to start. upon checking the position of the crank pulley to the cams and distributor, my dist. is in the right position when the cam lobes show tdc. but even before i started, the mark on the crank pulley was way off from tdc... could this be the p.o.'s work?
anyways i went from having a running (albeit in need of a little work) car to a pretty looking car-shaped statue in front of my house to sending it off for the professionals to rape me because i thought i could do it myself.
heres some reflections on the job:
everything came apart great, within the first hour the valve cover was cleaned and drying and i had the front timing cover and distributor off and was working on my guides.
i must attribute the success i experienced during the removal of the guides to the wealth of information and the fsm i had read 10 times before attempting and twice during the job. new gaskets, rtv, everything goes back together like a dream. i take a break, come back out and give it a second look, and decide to start the car. it acts like it wants to turn over, but it wont go. so im confused now. i recheck the spark plugs, the firing order, etc. all good. so i think oh **** maybe the dist. is off by like 1 tooth or something, even though i marked it and installed it to where it was before. so i wait for my dad to get off and call him over to watch me do this and verify im not messing it up. i pull everything apart again, take a good look, and set about putting it back together. this time when i try to set it to tdc on cyl 1, i look to double check on the crank pulley and notice that no matter how many times i turn the damn thing, i cant get the tdc mark to line up with tdc on the cylinder by looking at the cams and the dist. wtf?!?!
i came in to post all this frantic **** up here, call it a day and push it onto the street so the tow truck can get it and take it to the shop. hes got it open right now and the only thing he has said so far is "guide(S)?"
he thinks i was only supposed to remove the upper guide and not the second guide, although i have it from several sources that both guides were included in the tsb and they have been running with them off for quite some time. thats a big dif. from what my car is doing (nothin) and at this point i figure im going to be out of a lot of cash to get this fixed. i went over the procedure with the fsm and my dad and brother like four times and it seems like i did everything right...
on the bright side this might be the excuse i need to put on that ported head in my friend's garage...
well even though i was using two guides and the nissan fsm im pretty sure i effed up my car. i had it towed to the shop this morning because it refuses to start. upon checking the position of the crank pulley to the cams and distributor, my dist. is in the right position when the cam lobes show tdc. but even before i started, the mark on the crank pulley was way off from tdc... could this be the p.o.'s work?
anyways i went from having a running (albeit in need of a little work) car to a pretty looking car-shaped statue in front of my house to sending it off for the professionals to rape me because i thought i could do it myself.
heres some reflections on the job:
everything came apart great, within the first hour the valve cover was cleaned and drying and i had the front timing cover and distributor off and was working on my guides.
i must attribute the success i experienced during the removal of the guides to the wealth of information and the fsm i had read 10 times before attempting and twice during the job. new gaskets, rtv, everything goes back together like a dream. i take a break, come back out and give it a second look, and decide to start the car. it acts like it wants to turn over, but it wont go. so im confused now. i recheck the spark plugs, the firing order, etc. all good. so i think oh **** maybe the dist. is off by like 1 tooth or something, even though i marked it and installed it to where it was before. so i wait for my dad to get off and call him over to watch me do this and verify im not messing it up. i pull everything apart again, take a good look, and set about putting it back together. this time when i try to set it to tdc on cyl 1, i look to double check on the crank pulley and notice that no matter how many times i turn the damn thing, i cant get the tdc mark to line up with tdc on the cylinder by looking at the cams and the dist. wtf?!?!
i came in to post all this frantic **** up here, call it a day and push it onto the street so the tow truck can get it and take it to the shop. hes got it open right now and the only thing he has said so far is "guide(S)?"
he thinks i was only supposed to remove the upper guide and not the second guide, although i have it from several sources that both guides were included in the tsb and they have been running with them off for quite some time. thats a big dif. from what my car is doing (nothin) and at this point i figure im going to be out of a lot of cash to get this fixed. i went over the procedure with the fsm and my dad and brother like four times and it seems like i did everything right...
on the bright side this might be the excuse i need to put on that ported head in my friend's garage...
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DjPantsSpecR
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:49 pm
- Car: 93 Nissan MS13
92 Nissan RMS13
dude that sucks you towed her. I made a similar mistake myself, and had a car-shaped hunk of metal for a few months, plus another identical car shaped hunk of metal that also didnt work....
The guides are fine, you don't need that other one, that guy is just talking like a mechanic
leak down and compression test... shoulda bought those before sending it out to a shop, coulda figured out the problem for about 60 bones
i think you bent some valves.... i know first hand if you bend twelve, no matter how much cranking, how much starter fluid, how many double checks, and take aparts and put togethers will get that to run.
valves are kinda expensive for a lot of em, and you gotta get the head cut to fit them, as well as the valves, and lapped. little more money in that unless you got a buddy going to school for it...
if your friend's head is complete with valves, do it up, or else you are just gonna end up with less money and less running motor parts
The guides are fine, you don't need that other one, that guy is just talking like a mechanic
leak down and compression test... shoulda bought those before sending it out to a shop, coulda figured out the problem for about 60 bones
i think you bent some valves.... i know first hand if you bend twelve, no matter how much cranking, how much starter fluid, how many double checks, and take aparts and put togethers will get that to run.
valves are kinda expensive for a lot of em, and you gotta get the head cut to fit them, as well as the valves, and lapped. little more money in that unless you got a buddy going to school for it...
if your friend's head is complete with valves, do it up, or else you are just gonna end up with less money and less running motor parts
the head is complete and ready to go on, and i can already tell that is what is going to happen. gave my firend a call and let him know whats going down.
and at this point all my assumptions will be worst case scenario. id rather be pleasantly surprised than the alternative.
so far im lookin at at least $2k. but im selling my truck for $3,500 i hope.
and at this point all my assumptions will be worst case scenario. id rather be pleasantly surprised than the alternative.
so far im lookin at at least $2k. but im selling my truck for $3,500 i hope.
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DjPantsSpecR
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:49 pm
- Car: 93 Nissan MS13
92 Nissan RMS13
well, the new head will cost me $500 (minus whatever i can sell the $600 a piece cams for), the front timing cover has a hole in it where the bolt for the dist. goes (front timing cover is $400 from nissan), the guy before me was using the wrong spark plugs and the wires were falling apart on the inside ($110 for nissan oem wires, but i said ill bring him $70 ngk replacements), the chains need to be replaced, the tensioner DOES need to be replaced (i had just cleaned it and put it back on), i think that one of the valve cover bolts had stripped the head before -- oil squirted out when i pulled it the first time and even with my tq wrench set to 12 ft. lbs. (as the fsm indicated) it never stopped turning. also whatever else he finds wrong...
btw the timing from the cams WAS off from the crank pulley...
my $2,000 is including headwork. i think in buying the head i will save myself a LOT of labor for him to repair the old one and replace the valves. obviously most of this is going to be labor cost, but from what i found when i dug into it this weekend, theres stuff that needs to be done that i cant get into...
i tried to be as hard as i could in coming up with the estimate for my budget purposes so i can hopefully get away with much less and be happy about it...
btw the timing from the cams WAS off from the crank pulley...
my $2,000 is including headwork. i think in buying the head i will save myself a LOT of labor for him to repair the old one and replace the valves. obviously most of this is going to be labor cost, but from what i found when i dug into it this weekend, theres stuff that needs to be done that i cant get into...
i tried to be as hard as i could in coming up with the estimate for my budget purposes so i can hopefully get away with much less and be happy about it...
the shop my car is at called me today. they have decided my valves are bent. it was funny because they acted like it was the end of the world for me. i said, "kay, so what else?"
it turns out that even though i have been talking new head from the beginning, they just decided to tell me today that they would not put a new head on. i said, if its the liability you are worried about i understand you could not warranty any of the work with an unknown factor like the head im buying, id just like to have it put on while you have my engine open... they wont do it, they want the labor charge to repair my current head. he is kind of a nazi in this respect.
yesterday he said he needed to replace the plug wires and he was going to use the $110 nissan parts. i said i could get aftermarket wires for much cheaper, he quickly said he could too. i asked him what he could get and he said well, come to think of it he can only get the nissan wires and that i shouldnt trust motorcraft or autozone bargain brand.
i told him i could get ngk wires for about $40-50 less than what he could get nissan wires for and he said, well, i need the wires sooner than that, and its only a fifty dollar difference so why bother? fifty dollars is fifty dollars, *******. and turns out he doesnt need hte wires at all to see if my valves were bent.
at this point im pissed because i have to pay him the $400 for the work hes done so far (basically replacing the upper chain and a diagnostic) and have my car towed back to my house so i can figure out what to do next.
i guess i can find another shop or do it myself, but theres not one single nissan person around me that doesnt run a shop like this guy's.
it turns out that even though i have been talking new head from the beginning, they just decided to tell me today that they would not put a new head on. i said, if its the liability you are worried about i understand you could not warranty any of the work with an unknown factor like the head im buying, id just like to have it put on while you have my engine open... they wont do it, they want the labor charge to repair my current head. he is kind of a nazi in this respect.
yesterday he said he needed to replace the plug wires and he was going to use the $110 nissan parts. i said i could get aftermarket wires for much cheaper, he quickly said he could too. i asked him what he could get and he said well, come to think of it he can only get the nissan wires and that i shouldnt trust motorcraft or autozone bargain brand.
i told him i could get ngk wires for about $40-50 less than what he could get nissan wires for and he said, well, i need the wires sooner than that, and its only a fifty dollar difference so why bother? fifty dollars is fifty dollars, *******. and turns out he doesnt need hte wires at all to see if my valves were bent.
at this point im pissed because i have to pay him the $400 for the work hes done so far (basically replacing the upper chain and a diagnostic) and have my car towed back to my house so i can figure out what to do next.
i guess i can find another shop or do it myself, but theres not one single nissan person around me that doesnt run a shop like this guy's.
Re: (d!ck)
i had my car towed home today. trying to decide what to do with it now. a guy my dad works with got me the hookups at a shop called ANB, they said they will discount everything i have done there. i called them and let them know whats up, but they sound a little shady. ill keep you guys posted.