HELP TIMING ISSUE

[91sleeper240]

I need help getting my timing back to normal on my '91 240sx. It's got a stock ka24de. When takin out my timing chain guides(fixed the marble in a tin can noise yay) I removed the distributor without marking its correct position, so I would like some help. I need to know the easiest way to get the car back to the correct timing. Me and my friend worked on it all day yesterday but couldn't get it perfect, we tried both on the TDC mark and the stock "20" mark. We used a timing light, and set it were it was running good/normal, but it was no where near stock alignment pins. HELP PLZ!!!!!!!!!!

And For some reason last night, when we had it on the crank pulley marks (both Tdc and "20") the car would not stay on...
Modified by 91sleeper240 at 8:54 AM 11/11/2007

[le_ryan]

zerothread?id=105618

[91sleeper240]

Yes I used that guide to take off my timing chain guides, the problem is the car will NOT stay running (I have to keep giving it gas) while its on timing marks on the crank pulley.

How far away from timing marks can you be with out causing any problems to the engine? If any at all.


Modified by 91sleeper240 at 9:21 AM 11/11/2007

[le_ryan]

if it ran fine before, then you obviously did something wrong, only thing to do now is start all over, and get the motor to TDC

[91sleeper240]

We tried, both on the tdc compression stroke for the #1 cylinder and the stock "20" timing mark and the car didn't seem to want to run right on either. But for some reason it was running great, when away from the marks...

[le_ryan]

if you did it right both times, then i would start checkijng to make sure you plugged all your sensors back in ...

[91sleeper240]

Thanks for the reply's. So in other words we HAVE to make it work on the TDC huh? The only sensor I can think of we unplugged was the TPS sensor to try to ge the timing right, but we plugged back in...

[le_ryan]

yes if your not on TDC, then you have spark where its not needed, and no spark where it IS needed, yadda yadda ..

Try pullin the plug wire and spark plug in #1 and rotating the motor till the piston raises all the way up, by using the crank bolt or 5th gear roll.then make sure your distributor rotor is facing #1 and your mark on the crank is within spec.then you will have true TDC if not, the pull the distributor out and set the rotor facing #1 and get the rest of the motor to TDC then install it ( WHEN INSTALLING THE DISTRIBUTOR, IT HAS A TENDANCY TO MOVE SLIGHTLY DUE TO THE GEAR SEATING ) so you may have to set it slightly before #1

hope that helps

[91sleeper240]

Yea we tried that method. I was underneath my car turning the crank bolt (man what a work out) and my buddy was checking the first cylinder for the compression stroke. I'm pretty sure we found the correct TDC. He alligned the distributor's rotor facing #1 and I tried starting it, it did but the car would not stay on. So he tried putting it a bit before #1 still not staying on. I mean we've tried so manny different adjustments and the best one we got was when we were AWAY from the timing marks. I got rid of one problem but added another one :'(

[le_ryan]

make sure your plug wires are all in the right spot .. ?

[91sleeper240]

yeah we've triple checked the spark plug wires.... We're working on the car tomorrow, I really hope we can get the timing right.

[91sleeper240]

The car ran good when the timing was Advanced.

OEM should 20 degrees before TDC.

If i Turn the DIzzy Counter-Clockwise, it gets more advance, and then dies.

When we time it with a TIMING GUN, it is always Advanced. It idles like crap, when I REV IT, IT ROARS NICE and smooth, then as RPM drops, It shakes around 500 Rpms. (but thats only when away from the timing marks i think)

[le_ryan]

geez i dunno man, only thing i can say is redo it and make sure step by step that its done right. if that doesnt work, then search for a new problem.

[dickie]

which guides did you remove? if your chain was slack enough to hit the top guide, removing that and the side guide could have cause the chain to jump timing, although this is very unlikely.

the reason why i advocate NOT removing the guides, but instead replacing the system is because i have had several Nissan techs tell me personally that its not worth messing something up.

also, i noticed some misinformation floating around this site pertaining to which guides need to be removed; according to the dealership tech and an independent mechanic i know who has worked on Nissans/Datsuns for over 30 years, the very topmost guide is the only one you'd want to remove anyways.

some guys claim they have been running without the upper guides for a while, but maybe their tensioner and chains are in better condition and its only a matter of time for them. you willing to take that risk? having your valves bent can easily cost you over $1,000 in repair work, whereas a timing kit is a fraction of that cost...

also, im moving this to the KA section.

[91sleeper240]

Yeah it looks like were going to have to redo it. But how much should we redo.... (i.e. valve cover off and everything??)

[dickie]

what do you mean, "re-do?" if you are replacing your timing components, you should have the valve cover, front upper and lower timing covers, water pump and possibly oil pan removed.

[91sleeper240]

I removed the top timing chain guide, because I found out when I took off my valve cover that the it had broken and it was sittin on my timing chain. I got lucky, I also removed the one on the bottom right so later down the road I wouldn't get the same noise. I followed a how to on here but the timing we could not get back to normal. I hesitated about takin off the second guide which was in pretty good condition, but after takin it off it did not seem to add any slack to the chain

[91sleeper240]

sorry I meant redo the timing procedure. The timing chain and componets were all replaced last year by a friend. I removed the timing chain guides yesterday. Because they were causing noise. The tensioner was good, and the noise went away, but getting this sucker timed right is a pain, even with a timing light for some reason

[zerepdivad]

Have you had any results? anything new? A friend and i had the same problem on a ka24de as well. Lining everything up perfect didn't make it run...