Help removing metal part from intake.

[claudiotosco]

I was replacing the IACV on my 98 qx4. When I was ready to put everything together a small metal cube(broken screwdriver bit ) fell into the intake... I tried fishing it out with a small magnet but can't find it... I will receive a flexible endoscope camera tomorrow... Is there any way of removing the metal without having to disassemble the cylinder head?

Thanks for any help with this matter.

[ezb57e]

Remove the intake manifold. Its not that big a deal.

[Leo1998]

I'm confused??? the IACV is underneath the intake, so where did the bit fall into? More details.

[claudiotosco]

The intake manifold/plenum has been removed. the metal fell through the lower intake manifold collector.

Thanks

[Leo1998]

Ah Crap! I wouldn't stop til you get that out. Is it possible to remove the lower intake to find it? Good Luck and don't use those screwdrivers any more. Did you look in the service manual and try to trace where it fell? might give you an some ideas.

[ezb57e]

Hope it didn't go all the way past an intake valve, and put in a new knock sensor while your are in there.
May the force be with you.

[claudiotosco]

Thanks for the info guys.
I received the camera and it doesn't show any damage on any of the valves; but I can't find the part either...I will buy the knock sensor a set of gaskets and work on it on the weekend...

I will let you know when I finish...

[Leo1998]

Also if you haven't replaced that small coolant hose under the plenum now would be good. I had mine off and discovered it was rotting and probably been on there since '98.

[claudiotosco]

Thanks for the info. I did replace it when I replaced the IACV. It was stuck and rotten too.

[claudiotosco]

I'm trying to remove the lower intake manifold...

According to the EM manual I should disconnect :

1)_ Engine coolant temp switch harness connector.
2)_ Thermal transmitter harness connector.
3)_Water hose from thermostat housing...

I can't find any of those items...

Is any of these connectors on top of the passenger side rocker cover?
I did find a hose that goes from the intake manifold through the firewall(I thought this one was for heating temp inside the vehicle...)


Thanks for the help.

[ezb57e]

You didn't start the engine since you lost the piece did you?
The connectors on the right valve cover are for the O2 sensors and other stuff.
The connector to the knock sensor is near there too.
The thermal transmitter and temp sender are at the front, on the water outlet.
Don't break the thin metal terminal when you remove it. Squeeze the connector to release it.
There are two small diameter coolant hoses at the rear of the intake, one almost straight and the other a 90 degree hose.
I just cut them with a steak knife and install new ones. Same with the bigger 90 degree hose at the front of the intake.
You will have to remove the heater hose from the intake metal tube. Just loosen the clamp fully, ( I take the screw and tiny washer off) and CAREFULLY work the hose back off. Spray some silicone under the hose end and try to break it loose. Hopefully you can reuse it, and the clamps too. The factory clamps are the best.
Going back together, make sure all the head and manifold surfaces are CLEAN. I also like to put a thin film of RTV sealant around the water passages on the intake gasket.
Tighten down the manifold as described in the manual.

[claudiotosco]

I started the engine once after the fall, as soon as I heard the knocking sound I turned it off.( I heard the noise for about 1 second... not more then 20 knocks...).
Thanks to your reply(ezb57e) I was able to remove the lower intake manifold.
I used my camera and I can't see the metal part anywhere; I think it dropped below the valves...Is it possible?
The good news is that I can't find any damage on the valves...I will have to remove the rockers and go to the cylinder head to see if I can find the metal part.
I will keep you posted with any news. At this point I might wait until the weekend for the next step.

[Leo1998]

Have you thought about draining the oil and dropping the pan> Maybe get lucky.

[4xq]

If you heard knocking, it is likely the bit made it into a cylinder. You can pull each spark plug, and use your endoscope to look in the cylinder for the bit.

Once you find it, you can use a telescoping magnetic pickup tool - stick it into the spark plug hole, work it around a little, and once the magnet grabs it, s-l-o-w-l-y pull it up out of the cylinder. May take a few tries.

[claudiotosco]

@4xq; My endoscope won't fit through the spark plug hole...I tried that and the camera has the same diameter as the hole... I did try with the magnet without any luck... I will see if I can find a smaller endoscope camera and try it again.

Thanks for the idea.

[ezb57e]

You MUST get it out, no matter what it takes.
Don't think it will harmlessly pass into the exhaust.
It may have bent a valve already. If you have a rough idle when you are done you will know why.
Do you know which cylinder it is in?
Get a TINY magnet on a very flexible rod. Turning the engine by hand can open the intake valve and MIGHT all some access.
It is impossible for it to have gotten into the oil pan.
May the force be with you.

[claudiotosco]

Thanks EZB. I don't know what cylinder is in... but logic tells me it should have fallen on #1. I will try to find a smaller endoscope(about 10mm). the one I have is 14.5mm and is almost identical to the spark plugs holes..or with a more flexible magnet fish it out blind...

[ezb57e]

Why do you think its in #1?

[claudiotosco]

When The bit broke; the fragment was lying on the upper intake manifold by the first torx screw from the passenger side... I kept working with the fragment sitting there(and forgot about it)... When I removed the manifold; It makes sense that it went straight down(cylinder 1).

I'm sorry for being ignorant but: If I go through the spark plug hole; will I be able to fish it out? Or should I have to turn the engine for the valve to open up and fish it through that opening? and in that case how do I turn the engine manually?

Thanks

[4xq]

The spark plug hole will be the easiest. You will be able to lower the magnet pretty much straight down to the top of the piston. You can then move it around trying to grab on to the piece.

The hard part is that you cannot control exactly how the magnet attaches to the piece - it may attach so it comes out easily when you pull it up, or it may attach so that you cannot pull it up through the spark plug hole, in which case it falls off the magnet as you try to pull it out.

So it may take a bunch of attempts before it works. Pull slowly as the piece will move around on the magnet as you pull it out of the spark plug hole - that is when it is easiest to lose it.

If you want to turn the engine manually, the crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine has a nut on it - I think mine (2002) is 19mm but I'm not positive. I think you turn the crankshaft clockwise (that is normal engine rotation) as you look at the front of the engine. Transmission in neutral, brake set, key off.

Do not crank the engine with the key at this point - there is too much risk of damage till you get the piece out. You may also find that your bit comes out in several pieces. Just keep using the magnet till you are sure you have recovered everything loose in the cylinder.

[ezb57e]

4xq is right on the money here.
Good luck.

[claudiotosco]

Thanks for the suggestions. I received the smaller endoscope camera and I was able to fit it through the spark plug hole... but I can't find the bit at all...I did turn the engine( the crankshaft pulley nut is 21mm in mine). and I still can't find the it...At this point I will open the oil pan and see if it dropped there(which I doubt)... If that doesn't work; I will start removing parts to access the cylinder head...

[ezb57e]

It is IMPOSSIBLE for it to have gotten from the cylinder to the oil pan.
Think about it.
Don't waste time there.

[claudiotosco]

Update on the metal hunt.
1)_When trying to hand crank the engine; it doesn't allow me to make a whole cycle. The distributor rotor goes from pointing west up to pointing east. I guess the metal bit is stuck in there and it doesn't allow me for a full cycle rotation.
2)_ I found some major discoloration on the LH rockers. Specifically cylinder 3 & 5 intake valves...more than the exhaust ones. I'm assuming it is from the previous owner that never did anything on the car.
3)_ The endoscope showed me I have a lot of junk on the piston heads; but I can't find the metal part...I'm assuming it stuck on the upper part of the combustion chamber?
My next move is to remove the valve springs, in order to get to the cylinder head.

I will update as soon as I'm done with this step.

[4xq]

Sounds like you did not get lucky on this one!

Removing the valve springs is done after the head is removed. if you remove them while the head is on the vehicle, the valves drop into the cylinder, and there is no way to put them back.

It sounds as if your camera cannot see high enough in the cylinder to see the intake and exhaust valves, but if you did not see the piece lying on a piston, it has likely become stuck between the exhaust valve seat and the exhaust valve. That means the head must come off.

If you look carefully with your camera, I think you might see marks on the top of the one piston where the piece bounced around. Might be worth an extra look just to be sure you are pulling the correct head.

Not sure where you are located, but car-part.com may be helpful in locating and pricing a new head if you need one.

[greengumby]

Sounds like a rebuild motor might come in play soon?

[ezb57e]

You remove the rocker and shaft assemblies in order to get to the head bolts easier.
Unless you bent a valve, the springs will not be involved here.
Don't overlook the single 10mm bolt on each head.

[claudiotosco]

I was going through a Haynes manual and it says to remove the radiator in order to remove the head... is that true? What would be the easiest way of accessing the head without having to do an overhaul?
Haynes shows:
Relieve the Fuel System pressure : (Done)
Detach spark plugs, wires, remove distributor cap,(done)
Remove intake manifold (done)
Remove timing belt, Camshaft sprocket, and rear timing belt cover (NOT done).
Remove rocker arm components, and lifters(Done)
Remove Exhaust manifold (Done)
Disconnect remaining hoses and electrical harness . Also remove bolts holding coolant pipes to the rear of each cylinder head.(halfway)
Remove AC Compressor from engine without disconnecting the hoses. (not done)
Remove power steering pump without disconnecting the hoses (not done)
Remove Alternator (not done)
Remove the distributor(not done)
...

Any steps that can be skipped?
Thanks

[4xq]

You only need to remove the head that swallowed the bit. I have not worked on a 3.3, but I assume the power steering and alternator are in the way of removing the timing belt stuff. A/C condenser I am not positive about, but it probably has to be removed to get the timing belt stuff off as well. If not, you can leave it installed.

"Remove timing belt, Camshaft sprocket, and rear timing belt cover (NOT done)."
I would suggest reading the manual about how to properly install the timing belt and get the camshaft sprocket / timing belt sprocket etc all properly aligned BEFORE you remove these. It is much easier to understand how to properly install them if you look at it carefully before you pull it apart.

Try to set the engine to Top Dead Center before you pull the timing belt. You may not be able to do that since you said it only turned part way.

Timing belt cannot even be one tooth off or the engine will not run correctly.

I would remove the radiator as you really need the room to maneuver around while you are doing the work.

The distributor may be able to stay in if you are not pulling the head on that side of the engine - just not 100% positive since I haven't done a 3.3.

Otherwise, I don't think there are any real shortcuts from your list.

Good Luck! ezb57e may have more wrenching experience on your engine than I do - hopefully he will chime in.

[claudiotosco]

I forgot to post the final result on this issue. I took it to a shop; they rebuilt both cylinder heads, they also replaced the inj. kit; head gasket and front seals. Now it runs really smooth...