Help! Power loss/knocking after Seafoam

[rogue9]

I just had an issue with burning oil and ran low enough for the light to flash a couple of times in slow turns. I immediately added oil to bring it up to minimum level. Then, I changed the PCV valve and added 4-5 oz. of Seafoam to the crankcase and the rest in the gas tank. That was yesterday. It started blowing smoke after I did this. I put about 50 miles on it and today, a day after the crankcase Seafoam was added, I changed the oil and filter. Like black water!

Now, its blowing smoke (white or grey, hard to tell) with no gas or oil smell (just kinda chemical smelling) when I start or rev and has lost power when taking off from a stop or slow speed, almost like it's going to kill sometimes. Plus, it's got a knock when I try to accelerate in those scenarios. No CEL or codes and it runs fine once you start moving and get over 25-30 mph. Also, does not have the knock when idling or revving in neutral.

Anyone have a clue on where to start looking? I plan to pull the plugs and check/replace them first chance I get. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[ImStricken06]

when you kept driving, on low oil - you fried your piston rings. when you added seafoam to the oil, the seafoam in the oil would enter the combustion chamber, since the piston rings are worn - which gave you the visual proof that oil is getting past the rings.

i also suspect a blown head gasket, from the intense temps your block was under while running so low on oil.

[Rogue Jarhead]

How much oil did you add to bring it back up to where it should have been? What was the reason it got low in the first place? Leak?

[rogue9]

Well, I had no indication of high temp while driving. I'm also not smelling antifreeze or oil in the smoke. After I stopped the car the first time after driving with low oil, I got a cloud of smoke when I started it one time and that's it. Didn't happen again until I added Seafoam. I did have to add about 2.5 quarts total oil and it brought it back to the bottom of the dipstick. Not sure why the low oil happened as it was running great before this with no other oil problems and the oil was changed less than 1000 miles before. The pcv valve was clogged so I replaced it (thanks IM for the video on youtube.)

I have changed the oil yesterday and the spark plugs today (they were worn and one had some oil on it.) I'm still getting grayish-white smoke at startup and when I have some problems at take off and low speed acceleration. Does this still sound like what you described? What am I looking at for repairs? Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

[ImStricken06]

Its tough to call from here honestly. I'd visit a mechanic asap. Could be a couple things.

[rogue9]

Its tough to call from here honestly. I'd visit a mechanic asap. Could be a couple things.

Ok. Well, I checked the coolant this morning and it has not moved since it was topped off about a month ago - radiator cap is full and reservoir level has not changed. Wouldn't a head gasket leak be burning coolant?

Checked the oil - barely touching the dipstick and I added oil yesterday. This coincides with your call regarding the piston rings. If that's the case, then that was my problem before I started.

Started it up and lots of smoke came out. Can't tell for sure but it may have been blue but not grey anymore.

I know you had a lot of experiences with your '08 Rogue. I don't really have a mechanic I can trust and this is a project car for me not my daily drive. I'm trying to do this myself. Any wisdom you can provide is most appreciated.

[ImStricken06]

If your coolant levels are good, then its not your head gasket. Noe that i think about, it could also be your valve seals. Its tough to tell. Pull thr plugs in the morning (over night) and stick a tiny bore cam into the cyl and see if there are any globs of oil on the piston. You can also run compression tests. You should also check if the common rear main seal is leaking. Check the plastic cover on the bell-housing

[WentRogue]

pull the oil dipstick check to see if it looks like coffee with heavy cream, if it does you you have a blown head gasket

[Rogue Jarhead]

Adding 2.5 quarts to bring it to the bottom of the dip stick, and to bring it to the full line would be another quart or so. That means you were about 3.5 quarts down on a 4.5 quart engine. You need to do a compression fest. I believe you can borrow/rent one from a place like autozone. Instructions will be in the box and further instructions can be found on you tube.

From your description it does sound like you're burning oil, and of course you probably have a leak or two also. If the engine fails the compression test it will be for one of three reasons, blown head gasket, burnt valves, or burnt piston rings. All three would require removal of the head, the rings would require piston removal which would probably involve removing the engine.

If it passes the compression test then you are probably looking at valve seal replacement. I've done that on my daughter Toyota without removing the head, I'm not sure if a rogue could be done the same way or not.

If it fails the compression test you might want to cut your losses on that engine and see if you can pick up one from a junk yard and just replace the engine. Years ago I bought a flooded vehicle that was the victim of a January thaw. Of course later that same winter the temperature went well below 0. I brought the vehicle home cleaned it up did the fluid changes and all that. Yes there was some water in the engine and I got it started. Eventually I found that the cold weather and the water in the engine had split the #3 cylinder, I went to the salvage yard and picked up a low mileage (33000 miles) engine for $450. There are lots of rogues on the highway, many of them have been wrecked, you might be able to find a good deal on a low mileage engine if you decide you need it.

Now I wouldn't dump that engine before I pulled the head, if the head gasket is bad that's a relatively easy and inexpensive job, provided you do it yourself. If you need to pull the engine to replace the rings then maybe it's worth looking at a different engine.

Either way you're going to learn a lot more about engines in the next few weeks. As you have already on this car.

[rogue9]

First of all, you guys are awesome!

If your coolant levels are good, then its not your head gasket. Noe that i think about, it could also be your valve seals. Its tough to tell. Pull thr plugs in the morning (over night) and stick a tiny bore cam into the cyl and see if there are any globs of oil on the piston. You can also run compression tests. You should also check if the common rear main seal is leaking. Check the plastic cover on the bell-housing

I have not had a chance to continue diagnosing as of yet. Other mechanically experience people I know who have seen the symptoms are leaning heavily toward valve oil seals as well. Smoke has gradually turned more blue as I have been keeping the oil level maintained. Coolant levels are stable and nothing is getting worse. Starts fine but smokes a good bit then dissapates. Knocks a little and puffs some smoke when you start at low speed acceleration and take off half the time. Idles great now with the new plugs and highway speeds are smooth as glass.

I am mentally prepared to handle diagnostics and valve seals but beyond that, I'm not sure. I will be doing everything you guys suggest (pulling plugs, bore cam, compression tests. and so on.) I will keep you guys posted and maybe try to shoot a video or two on the subject (I'm not ImStricken06 but I'll give it a go.)

Either way you're going to learn a lot more about engines in the next few weeks. As you have already on this car.

The knowledge download has already begun.

[ImStricken06]

man i wish i could help you....
here is the best advice i can give you: i honestly wouldnt even waste anymore time or money on parts/checking/scanning/scoping/etc. i would just drive this car to and from work and save some money to pay a mechanic to do a full engine swap. crashed rogues are a dime a dozen in junk yards, and you can easily land a new engine with 30,000-75,000 for $500-$800. a mechanic would charge you under $2,000-$2,500 (generally) out the door.

you can pull the head, buy a used head from the junk yard, have it milled down to perfection, buy a new gasket - and find out that wasnt your real problem. now you are out $500 in total.

[rogue9]

man i wish i could help you....
here is the best advice i can give you: i honestly wouldnt even waste anymore time or money on parts/checking/scanning/scoping/etc. i would just drive this car to and from work and save some money to pay a mechanic to do a full engine swap. crashed rogues are a dime a dozen in junk yards, and you can easily land a new engine with 30,000-75,000 for $500-$800. a mechanic would charge you under $2,000-$2,500 (generally) out the door.

you can pull the head, buy a used head from the junk yard, have it milled down to perfection, buy a new gasket - and find out that wasnt your real problem. now you are out $500 in total.

I appreciate all the help you have given so far. To be honest, I got the car really cheap but I spent a lot of time working on cleaning it up since I got it. I put 1500 miles on it since I resurrected it. I am pissed at myself for assuming the shop that "fixed" the misfire and changed the oil for the previous owner didn't recognize the bigger problem. I guess I should have doubted them when the failed to diagnose a bad battery.

Anyway, people say everything happens for a reason. May this is so that I can learn more about engines.

I digital camera viewed and compression tested the engine yesterday. Being inexperienced at this but watched multiple videos on compression tests, I found that all the cylinders were withing 10 PSI of each other. Cylinders 2-4 had the usually carbon on them when I sent the camera down the spark plug hole; however #1 was covered in oil so much that the camera lights just reflected back (it also had the highest compression.) The new plugs i installed were all okay except #1, of course, because it was covered with oil and it was hardened and flaking off. I swapped it with the best of the old plugs but I suspect this will not last long if I keep driving it.

I suspected that it was the valve seals on cylinder #1 so I added 7 oz. of ATP AT-205 Re-seal to it and drove it for about 80 miles on the Interstate by me. Looped it 3 times in an hour and a half. This only made the situation worse. Kept it below 60 most of the time but then it started to hesitate at 50-55 mph. It was supposed to take 5 hours of operation to treat but I do not believe I can take it any longer without seriously damaging the engine. Oil was brought to level when I started and was not even touching the dipstick when I stopped. Blue smoke during hesitations with some light knocking; however, I have yet to get even a pending engine code from the car. It's like it does not even see the issues!

When I returned I did one more test on the engine before calling it quits. I cranked it up with the hood up and removed the oil cap then put my hand over. It was spitting oil and thumping on my hand. Now, I don't know if this is blow-by from the pistons or it a result of the valve seals damaged as Cylinder #1 is right near the opening. The answer to that would be most helpful.

Anyway, I am going to proceed with replacing the valve seals on the entire engine. Since I am going in and they are only about $3.50 a piece, I will change them all. If anyone has photos or videos on how to remove the valve cover and the camshafts without removing the timing chain, it would be appreciated. The camshaft removal looks possible if a dowel of some kind is used in place of the camshaft while it is out. Also, if you remove only one shaft at a time and work just that side then switch, it also seems like it could be done.

If my theory on this is off (or way off), please let me know. I'm sure my inexperience with these things is showing but I am trying to stay optimistic about this. Thanks again for everyone's help. Keep it comin'!

[rogue9]

UPDATE: Well, I went ahead and taught myself how to change valve seals and did the job. I managed to reassemble the engine top without issue but the problem did not change. I then went back and reviewed the basics of blue exhaust smoke and closely examined the PCV system. I took a piece of cheap orange colored hose and installed it in the place of the regular line between the PCV valve and the intake. After just a minute or two of running, I removed it and it was dripping with oil just from idling.

Then, I capped the intake port for the PCV and ran a temporary line from the PCV valve to a plastic bottle (just in case it was sending a lot of oil out.) After a few minutes of idling, the plumes of smoke stopped and it ran smooth.
I let it sit for about six hours and then cranked it up. NO SMOKE!!!! I remembered that when I had the rocker cover off, the vents inside the cover were caked with sludge along with the tops of the camshaft brackets. I believe this is a result of the car sitting for a year. The Seafoam must have stirred it up and messed up the PCV system.

My intent with the Seafoam was to clean the engine but I could not continue because the oil was fouling the spark plugs. The vacuum was pulling oil into the intake and slinging it all the way to Cylinder 1 and bypassing the other cylinders, giving the appearance of a problem in just that cylinder. With under 73K miles on the engine, I could not believe that it was worn that badly. Once I start the initial cleaning process, I will be installing an oil catch can on the PCV system to stop the flow and keep vacuum on the PCV system.

IMStricken06, I really like the videos of your install of the ADD W1 Catch Can for your Hyundai/KIA.

I am not saying this is end of problems for this vehicle but with the oil burning issue out of the way, I can move forward with restoring the vehicle to normal operation. Thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions!!

[rogue9]

Well, the catch can did nothing but catch oil before it overflowed and went into the intake anyway. I did more research and found that a defective valve cover can cause oil burning through the intake. I asked a few questions elsewhere and decided that the engine sludge may have caused a failure in the PCV system by partially blocking the baffles. I decided that if I was going to take the valve cover off again, I was going to change it. Purchased a new OEM Nissan valve cover with PCV valve and a new OEM Nissan gasket. Took about 3 hours this time and went well. After driving it for over 200 miles, I have not seen a puff of smoke and the engine runs great. I believe that I was driving with a blocked PCV system when the oil went low. The Seafoam probably did its job and partially unblock some of the passageways in the valve cover, allowing oil to be sucked into the intake.

Lesson learned her is that you never assume the basics are taken care of. I overlooked the PCV system because I changed the valve. There is obviously way more to the Nissan QR25DE PCV system than just a breather hose and valve. The valve cover is an integral part of that system and, if anyone has an oil burning issue, a thorough examination of this area is crucial. The deciding factor to change the cover was when I disconnected the breather hose from the air intake, still connected to the valve cover, and blocked it using my thumb with the engine running. When I released it, it make a slurping sound as it recovered. This does not happen with the new cover. This may be a test someone can perform in determining the cause of blue smoke.

Also, I mentioned in my diagnosis that there was a fluttering of air coming from the engine where the oil it poured in. I was able to check out a 2012 Rogue SL with 96K miles and it was doing the same thing but had no problems. This must be a common occurrence with the QR25DE engine that is not documented elsewhere. I had nothing coming out of the dipstick tube.

Rogue Jarhead, I really have learned more about engines in the last two months than I have in the last 20 years!

Thanks everyone for our help. I hope this experience of mine can help someone else someday. It was frustrating but educational.