Help please with parts checklist!

[ninjak84]

what would i need for a T4 turbo to run absolutely perfect on my stock KA24 motor?heres what i came up with:-Blow off valve-Intercooler-Multichecker-Turbo timer -New injectors-Fuel pressure regulator-Fuel pump-Intake-Headers-Oil pan gasket-The turbo itself

do i need all this? please tell me what i can leave out, or if i missed anything. (custom exhaust manifold?)

[95_240sx]

Well, all that stuff plus all your turbo and intercooler plumbing, boost controller, some type of engine management, probably JWT or a Haltech (if your rich), You dont want headers on a Turbo application, you would probably want to get a Turbo Manifold.

You also need to think about how much boost you are planning to run, anything over 8lbs your going to need some larger Injectors, fuel rail and fuel pump. If you want to run anything over about 13lbs of boost your going to need to get the engine prepped for turbo...i.e. Pistons, rods, O-ring. Good stuff like that.

Rick

[BinaryVertigo]

what exactly are you doing when you "o-ring" the block?

thanks

[I H8 UR DSM]

you dont "need" a turbo timer....and i dont think the "multichecker" is totally necessary....you will need somesort of ecu tune or standalone

[95_240sx]

O-ringing is an extremly effective way of running high compression or high boost, and not blowing out your head gasket. Basically you have a machine shop take a very thin piece of wire, put it between the head gasket and head or block, they mill out a receiver groove for the wire to lock into when the head and block are torqued down. Basically its like putting a tooth between the head and block, via the head gasket. Chris May had this done, and he did 22lbs of boost on a STOCK head gasket!

Rick

[C-Kwik]

O-Ringing the block can be effective at preventing a head gasket failure, but is not necessary. At 22 PSI, perhaps it might be good insurance, but in most cases, head gasket failure is a result of detonation. With proper tuning, you should have no detonation, therefore no head gasket failure. So I would not go as far as having the block O-ringed just to run higher boost. If you already have the heads off though, a copper head gasket and even O-ringing may be good to help prevent having to tear the motor apart in case you do detonate in the future.

Plenty of KA's are running more than 12 psi with a stock headgasket with no problems.

As far as the list of parts, there will never be any guarantee that all of the proper parts will keep the car running perfect.

Here's my list(this is minimal)TurboManifoldDownpipeIntake and I/C piping, if intercooledIntercooler optional if running very low boost(up to 4 psi)Some kind of fuel management(fmu or larger injectors and ECU ROM tune or fuel controller)Oil line and fittingsWastegateBlow-Off ValveVarious Vacuum lines and hoses

I would also recommend a turbo timer and a boost gauge. Perhaps even a EGT gauge. You should also look at what kind of boost you plan to run and make adjustements to accomodate the higher boost.

[BinaryVertigo]

o ic...thanks for the quick OT respond

[95_240sx]

Quote »If you already have the heads off though, a copper head gasket and even O-ringing may be good to help prevent having to tear the motor apart in case you do detonate in the future. [/quote]Ok, I dont know of anyone who makes a higher performance head gasket for the KA24DE engine, although I would like to have one. Let me know if you know of anyone C-Kwik.

Rick

[C-Kwik]

http://www.scegaskets.com

They make them in various thicknesses as well.

[95_240sx]

http://www.scegaskets.com

They make them in various thicknesses as well.

They look decent, Im going to give them a call tomorrow, but out of curiosity, have you ever used one of their products? If so were you impressed or what?

Rick

[doctorj240]

Backyard productions (http://www.back-yard-productions.com/products.htm) makes a 1mm and 2mm headgasket. They did some work on Jay's car didn't they?

[Exar-Kun]

uh..wow. If I'm planning on running 12psi of boost, what thickness would be good? anyone?

-chet

[doctorj240]

Technoman said a 2mm headgasket will drop compression to a favorable 8.5:1. For 12 psi that should be adequate.

[Exar-Kun]

I have a kad24DE, isnt that what compression it started with?

-chet

[doctorj240]

I believe 9.5:1 is stock compression, but I'm not exactly sure. I do know that it is not 8.5:1.

[technoman]

If you use a 2 mill 'steal" head gasket on stock internals you will have 8.5.1 compresion. I plan to use this 220 dollar gasket with a turbo setup. Im going to start with 10psi and work my way up with fuel upgrades. I also plan to use water injection as well. my goal is to see 20psi on stock internials. maybe it will, maybe it won't. With the water injection I belive it will make it. i plan to spray water or "windex" at 12psi all the way to 20psi. man thats a lot of water! To keep from snapping a rod I will keep the rev limmiter at a safe 6400rpm's With the right tuning the lower end may hold together but I know it wont take high rpm's with boost.

I just need 2,000 dollars!!!!! :help

[doctorj240]

At least you have a job. I need 2000 and I make 100 a month. That's not so good.

[technoman]

Yea but your in collage.

[BinaryVertigo]

what exactly is water injection? i've read about it a couple of time and i have no clue of what it is and what it does

any help?

thanks

[technoman]

water injection is a cheap way to stop pinging from high boost.you spray a water mixture into the intake during hard boost. this will keep you pistons from glowing and melting. Yes people water will burn.

[C-Kwik]

Using a thicker head gasket is a poor way to decrease compression. Most modern motors use head shape profoundly to decrease the propensity to detonate and increase efficiency. In most DOHC motors, there is a quench area on the edges of the top of each cylinder's head where the fuel/air mixture is pushed towards the center during compression. By using a thicker head gasket, you can adversely affect the quench effect and do more harm then good.

As far as water injection, it is very effective, but a rather poor way of fixing a detonation problem. If it is just something that is used for track, use under higher boost, then it's probably fine, but quite high maintenance for street use. And the reason water injection works is that water consumes a lot of energy(heat) when it evaporates. As the water evaporates into the air/fuel mixture as it is introduced into the intake air and as compression takes place in the cylinders, it lowers the temperature of the charge, thereby reducing the chances of detonation. If you have glowing and melting pistons, you have some serious other problems already.

[technoman]

I think C kwik is trying to say that it all boils down to trial and error. Personally I don’t think the KA motor is very "modern" at all Yes it has a nice head with very low cc units in each bowl. But I would never call a KA a "modern" engine. It just a big block 4 cylinder with a distributor that's made really strong. When I build this KA motor I have no idea how things will turn out. I just know im not boosting on stock compression. C kwik what is the worst that could happen with a 2-mill "steal" gasket and factory dished pistons?

[technoman]

As far as water injection, it is very effective, but a rather poor way of fixing a detonation problem.

I’m lost on that one! :thinker People have been using water injection for years. My dad uses this on his Grand National with no problem. It's been working since 1990, that’s 12 years of 25psi and the motor has yet to be rebuilt. Just don’t forget to fill the water tank before racing.

C kwik I’m not flaming you are knocking you. I have read you’re post in the past and you have alot of auto smarts about cars. I was a Nissan tech for 6 years and repaired and rebuilt many Nissan motors, hell I even attended Nissan training school at Daytona Beech Community Collage. I fouled around there and got an A.S degree in automotive technology. I understand this method is not the best way to achieve my goal. I’m just trying to get their as cheap as possible.

[Turbo_Nismo_EC]

MMMMM...talking about water injection not being good for everyday use. My buddy has a 98 Hyundai Accent, running 25 psi, with NO fuel mods except a 3-stage methanol injection system set up by Mike McIntyre at Dragon Fab in El Paso, Texas. No new fuel pump, no bigger injectors, no FMU, nothing, just a couple Nitrous silinoids squirting methanol. Hell he doesn't even have an intercooler. It's been running fine for 2 years with only pistons added to the bottom end after the shop he origionally took it to upped the boost and detonated the number 2 cylinder. 1.5L SOHC making 297 whp on a basically stock motor, that ran 12.5-somthing at the Texas Motorplex in Ennis Texas earlier this year.

[Turbo_Nismo_EC]

By the way...if Dragon Fab sounds familiar to any of you, it was the compay that entered that twin-engine Tiburon in the Ultimate Street Car Challenge. That is where his car was tuned. In a single run he burns almot 16 ounces of methanol in a 1/4.

[technoman]

Water injection will do wonders, but you need to no what your doing with it. and no you cant use it everytime you start your engine.

[Exar-Kun]

I dont know about the water injection thing, but I do know more than a few people using slightly alrger(thicker) headgaskets on many over-boosted car, and it seems to work fine...

my parts list for the turbo setup:-Apex-i ball bearing T3/T4(maybe larger, I gotta chat with them)-Apex-i Hybrid front mount intercooler-Apex-i AVC-R-Apex-i AFC, with nismo 370cc injectors, z32 MAF, high capacity fuel pump. -Apex-i blow off valve/ Wastegate-NISMO fuel pressure regulator(supposing I can find one..)-Metal Head gasket (maybe 2mm...not sure yet, depends onboost level I decide on)-Custom 3" downpipe-KOYO alluminum radiator, nismo cap...heh.uh..thats all I can think of right now(other than piping, etc obviously)

*current mods*apex N-1 exhaustcustom apex-i intake(pics soon...)nology coil and wiresJUN chromoly flwheelACT stage 3 clutchUR under-drive pulleyshort shifterCross drilled rotorsMetal master padsGoodridge swtainless steel lines

oncomming mods(next 3 months)-NISMO stainless steel clutch line-APex-i coil overs (N-1)-3" 'racing' catalytic converter-cam gears(stillen)-VLSD!!!!-volk 18x8 wheels, 225-40-17 and 265-35-18 tires....mmm.-cusco rear arms for camber adjustment

sooo...sound good guys? am I missing some key component? oh yeah, yes I love apex-I stuff, obviously. ...good ****..

-chet

[C-Kwik]

I'm not saying if the KA uses a modern head design or not. My opinion would be that Nissan did as it uses a modern pentroof design. whether or not quench pads are there or not are another story. But if I were to guess, I'd say it's more robable that Nissan engineers did incorporate quench pads into the heads. But my statement was more general. And my point is really that thicker headgsakets may not yield the same result as lowering CR by way of lower CR pistons, which still allow the quench area to be used.Lowering the CR may help reduce the onset of detonation, but not as effectively as a lower CR piston.

As far as water injection, I didn't say it isn't effective. I was just pointing out that it shouldn't be used to fix a detonation problem. I'd say to go ahead and use it for a street/strip car that sees more boost at a drag race track and needs it to reduce any chances of detonation. It's a good compliment to a well built boosted motor, but should not be a requirement to make it run reliably.

[cnichols]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Exar-Kun "]I dont know about the water injection thing, but I do know more than a few people using slightly alrger(thicker) headgaskets on many over-boosted car, and it seems to work fine...

my parts list for the turbo setup:-Apex-i ball bearing T3/T4(maybe larger, I gotta chat with them)-Apex-i Hybrid front mount intercooler-Apex-i AVC-R-Apex-i AFC, with nismo 370cc injectors, z32 MAF, high capacity fuel pump. -Apex-i blow off valve/ Wastegate-NISMO fuel pressure regulator(supposing I can find one..)-Metal Head gasket (maybe 2mm...not sure yet, depends onboost level I decide on)-Custom 3" downpipe-KOYO alluminum radiator, nismo cap...heh.uh..thats all I can think of right now(other than piping, etc obviously)

Depending on how much boost you plan to run, I might consider getting some larger injectors than 370cc...just a thought in case you decide to upgrade in the future.

[aleph1]

Exar-Kun: Some of that stuff you listed is for SR20 only. Nismo FPR, Koyo radiator, Apexi turbo...SR only. Im not sure on the turbo setup your planning, but what are you going to do about the manifold? Is the Apexi turbo you are refering to a kit or JUST the turbo? If its a kit, its SR only and if its a turbo only, does it fit normal T3 or T4 flanges or is it a special Apexi thing. Either way I wouldnt waste my money on an Apexi turbo. Turbonetics, Garrett and HKS are better IMHO.