help needed with 4was issues

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bp787
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help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:03 am

I've been scouring the site and the net for help with this issue, but so far, no one, including the dealer, has been able to. At least here i've seen some discussion about 4was issues.

I have an 07 G35S w/ 4was. Recently had a minor accident. The car went slightly off-road, but I don't think anything underneath was damaged. The car felt like it was pulling a bit as I drove it to the dealer. The front bumper, right over the ICC sensor was damaged.

No CEL or other lights were observed when I drove it to the shop. The body shop did the repair and then did an alignment, which they prob shouldn't have done. Test drove car around town. Turned on ICC and it appeared to work, but it never detected the car in front of me. Probably out of alignment. Drove car home, upon pulling into the garage, the 4was, slip, and VDC Off lights came on.

Shop took car to Infiniti. Came back with the following codes:
C1138 ABS - 4was circuit
C1185 ABS - ACC Circuit
C1A26 ICC/ADAS - ABS/TCS/VDC Circ
C1930 4was/MAIN?RAS/HICAS - 4was front ECU
C1668 4WAS MAIN/RAS/HICAS - Lock HLD GAP DETECT

Infiniti says: " needs a new steering column assembly".
I say... according to the service manual, the 4was codes suggest either the HICAS or the front 4was actuator on the lower steering shaft, and makes no reference to the steering column assembly.
I left after they were basically being unhelpful and just "guessing".

so I've been pouring through the manual. It seems that the first two codes are PROBABLY related to the 4was system reporting errors and not actual ABS issues.
The ICC code is related to the 4was system disabling cruise/slip/vdc, etc... but is probably in need of alignment.

The 4was codes really allude to the front actuator needing replaced (which isn't available from infiniti anymore).

So I drove the car back from infiniti. The steering wheel was off about 30 degrees. Either A) the alignment done by the body shop was bad or B) infiniti did something stupid.

I took the car to the local and helpful nissan shop. the alignment was definitely off badly. They fixed that, but couldn't diagnose the 4was system fully. Fixing the alignment hasn't corrected the 4was situation yet, but at least the steering wheel is MOSTLY vertical.

So now i'm wondering the following:
1. did the initial alignment cause the 4was errors because they didn't do everything necessary for the 4was system? (neutral position alignment for steering, etc...)
2. is the ICC being either out of alignment or damaged causing the other systems to report errors?
3. Is the front actuator actually damaged (seems unlikely)?
4. WTF?

I'm taking the car to a dealer about 2hrs away from me to get it checked out by someone more willing to work with me, but would greatly appreciate some help/feedback on this. Seems like not a lot of people are very familiar.

I can find the front actuator used pretty easily. Assuming mine is damaged, I would like to see if it's repairable. Sounds like i'd be breaking new ground by opening it up...

Thanks!


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telcoman
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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby telcoman » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:40 am

^
If your insurance is not going to cover the damage

Sell it, or trade it in for another vehicle.
Don't waste your time and money trying to fix it

Get another car.

Just my $.02

Telcoman

bp787
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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:58 am

my insurance covered it. Infiniti said they couldn't find the part and thus couldn't do a repair. I have the money for the estimated cost of repair, but so far I'm limited in options. I'll lose whatever residual value I had with all of these lights on. I don't think I'm going to convince insurance to go any further, though.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:55 am

Ugh.....yeah, that seems to be a mess of a problem to try and resolve. Here's a related thread and it seems nothing related to 4AWS is cheap. So glad I didn't have issues with mine while I had my '07 G35s: post6694559.html

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:36 am

I did read that thread. unfortunately, it appears his is related to the rear actuator and the OP never posted his codes. everything in mine points to the front actuator, ECU, etc... ugh

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:00 am

Based on the codes it seems CONSULT did fail during the alignment process. Assuming the actuator is actually OK then there are four components which transmit to 4WAS via CAN communication which can be further looked into:
- Steering angle sensor (steering angle)
- ABS actuator and electronic control unit (vehicle speed signal)
- ECM (engine speed signal)
- Combination meter (4WAS warning lamp signal)

FSM does state "CAUTION: Replace 4WAS front actuator when the system returns an error because excessive force (rotating direction) outside is applied to 4WAS front actuator." Since the front actuator is part of the steering then it's possible that any excessive stress could force a permanent alignment issue. I don't know if your offroad excursion resulted in such but it's sure a possibility. I would consider replacing the unit with a used one from a reputable ebay dealer or salvage yard with warranty. I believe the part number is 48822JK700 and there is actually one on ebay for $70 delivered at the moment. Afterward you will have to go back to Infiniti for a realignment.

bp787
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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:42 am

audtatious wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:00 am
Based on the codes it seems CONSULT did fail during the alignment process. Assuming the actuator is actually OK then there are four components which transmit to 4WAS via CAN communication which can be further looked into:
- Steering angle sensor (steering angle)
- ABS actuator and electronic control unit (vehicle speed signal)
- ECM (engine speed signal)
- Combination meter (4WAS warning lamp signal)

FSM does state "CAUTION: Replace 4WAS front actuator when the system returns an error because excessive force (rotating direction) outside is applied to 4WAS front actuator." Since the front actuator is part of the steering then it's possible that any excessive stress could force a permanent alignment issue. I don't know if your offroad excursion resulted in such but it's sure a possibility. I would consider replacing the unit with a used one from a reputable ebay dealer or salvage yard with warranty. I believe the part number is 48822JK700 and there is actually one on ebay for $70 delivered at the moment. Afterward you will have to go back to Infiniti for a realignment.
yes. definitely something was done wrong during the first alignment. When nissan did the second alignment, I don't think they did the 4was neutral position alignment and couldn't troubleshoot further.

I have seen that 4was actuator and will probably buy it. at $70, it's cheap enough. If the installation is relatively straightforward, I'll do it myself and then take back to the dealer.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:53 am

If Nissan didn't do the 4AWS alignment first then what they did was primarily a waste of time. It does not surprise me since Nissan does not offer US-spec cars with 4AWS of this nature that I'm aware of.

Hopefully you have the FSM for the vehicle as it does map out the removal and installation process and cautions.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:36 pm

audtatious wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:53 am
If Nissan didn't do the 4AWS alignment first then what they did was primarily a waste of time. It does not surprise me since Nissan does not offer US-spec cars with 4AWS of this nature that I'm aware of.

Hopefully you have the FSM for the vehicle as it does map out the removal and installation process and cautions.
the body shop did it first. I think that's the initial cause of the 4was issue, the more I learn about how the 4was process information from the various sensors.

The car then went to infiniti. They mentioned NOTHING with the alignment. just that I needed to find a $2k part.

Then Nissan did an alignment. it's basically within spec now, but yeah, they totally didn't do the 4was neutral alignment. At least they got my steering wheel back to center.

So you think that if someone did the neutral position alignment of the 4was actuator, then did an overall alignment, that I might have a chance to eliminate the issue?

Nissan thought they'd be able to diagnose the problem. but apparently their consult III software doesn't include any of the 4was components.

I do have the FSM. The removal looks pretty straightforward, but there are a lot of assumptions made. It doesn't state whether anything else around the steering column needs removed prior. I haven't gotten under the car to look at the lower shaft. hopefully it's easy to reach. The biggest thing is keeping things straight. gotta tie the steering wheel in place as well as fixing the lower shaft. Still not sure if this is easy to get to, but the FSM makes it look relatively simple... The problem is that the removal instructions require doing a neutral position adjustment before removing... this of course requires CONSULT III use. so it looks like I won't be doing the replacement myself.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:43 pm

I never had issue with my '07 G35s that had 4AWS so I never really dealt with it. The instructions do look relatively simple....but spaces are somewhat confined.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:51 am

So I just got the car back from the shop in Louisville. They determined it was the lower Front shaft w/ 4WAS Actuator, part number: 48822-JK700. Consult III is definitely stating that the part has a fault that is not caused by anything else. The makes sense given the codes.

They did find ONE unit in the entire inventory and are asking $3300 for it. Online parts stores has it listed at $1800 or so. Must be marking that up a ton.

Insurance said they're paying for it. So i guess that's good. but dang, at this point they could've just totaled the car out...

Also interesting, the 2014 Q60 has one trim package that includes rear active steering and uses the same part number. They're apparently not cross referenced for some reason, but are likely the same part (judging by part number and diagrams). Those are readily available.

And a side effect of the 4WAS being damage, my steering wheel keeps changing it's neutral position to about 30-40 degrees off when going straight. Was corrected after the last alignment, but something that consult does messes that up all over again. Not sure if there's a way for me to correct it until the repair is done, but...

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:53 am

Louisville Infiniti?

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:42 am

audtatious wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:53 am
Louisville Infiniti?
Yes.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:41 am

Good team there, surprised they didn't find the issue sooner if they were the ones you mentioned in the first post.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:21 am

audtatious wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:41 am
Good team there, surprised they didn't find the issue sooner if they were the ones you mentioned in the first post.
they're not the original people. the original dealer was the Greenwood indianapolis team.

The only issue i'm having with L'ville is that their parts dept is jacking up the price. insurance is paying, but still...

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby Mudgen » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:19 pm

Just popping in to say that audtatious and telcoman are long time treasures of this technical corner, and I learned something from this thread.
The 2011 G37x just keeps running like a dear old girl. 70K. now.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby audtatious » Tue May 01, 2018 4:50 am

Aww shucks.... :blush:

I still learn tons when looking into issues. Will be much more difficult in the future without FSM's handy.

4AWS is interesting but not necessarily something I would want on a car I hit twisties on. It feels strange at times and if you are in some major cornering the car can seem lost at times.

I was missing my G37 this past weekend, what an great car. The Q60 is great, but, I've not put my touch on it yet and it mostly sets in the garage (1300 miles in 6 months). Once I rub some stank on it I'm sure the G will be just a fond memory.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby bp787 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:15 pm

I I had to order the lower steering column from japan through the dealer. That part was about $1800 or so. It is important to note that they will tell you it's not available for the G35 anymore. However, the part is the SAME part from a 2015 Q60 w/ 4was and shares the same part number. The other trick is that they will have to contact Corporate to see if they can get it, and they can, from Japan.

I just got the repair done. It's about 5-7 hours of labor, give or take.

Replacing this part is, in fact, what fixed all of the codes and warnings. Also, it fixed my steering wheel being about 45 degrees off to the right.

ICC, VDC, SLIP all works fine. just drove it 2hrs back from the dealer. no issues.

Glad that insurance is paying for it... otherwise, not sure if it was worth it.

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Re: help needed with 4was issues

Postby GasguzzlingV8 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:14 am

This is a very simple and inexpensive repair. Infiniti does not even know how to remedy this issue Except for the customer to replace the computers and HICAs to the sum of 12k including labor.. In the technical bulletins within the infiniti certified technicians discussion boards there is not definitive answer how to fix the issue of the many inner twined systems that are effected by the 4was / HICAS errors. Let me know if you are still having the issue and I will give you the simple steps to repair.


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