Help my Build Thread

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Ok I'm currently smack in the middle of my build and I have a few questions, looking for some suggestions. I tried researching a build done by Gino but his threads always drop off suddenly and I have no clue what HP numbers he actually got. I'm looking for 500-600 RWHP on pump gas. Is it true that ~19 PSI is as far as you want to go on pump gas?

Pistons - I'm looking at CP or Wiseco. I need high silicon so I can run tight tolerances, forged obviously, and I really wanna reduce as much rotating mass as possible. Anyone know weights by comparison?

Rods - I doubt I re use the stock rods because I know the Eagle H Beam rods are around 200grams lighter, is it worth it to go from Eagle rods to a more expensive rod like Pauter etc? Again, anyone know weights by comparison?

Valves - I'm gonna go Ferrea 1mm oversized unless someone can talk me out of it.

Casting Flash - What can I show or tell the machine shop to explain exactly how to clean that s*** out? I saw the build that JWT did for MotoIQ where they milled clean.

Manifolds - I know AMS slightly outflows the MSP manifold but are there any other options that are better?

[vulcanrush]

Ok I'm currently smack in the middle of my build and I have a few questions, looking for some suggestions. I tried researching a build done by Gino but his threads always drop off suddenly and I have no clue what HP numbers he actually got. I'm looking for 500-600 RWHP on pump gas. Is it true that ~19 PSI is as far as you want to go on pump gas?

Pistons - I'm looking at CP or Wiseco. I need high silicon so I can run tight tolerances, forged obviously, and I really wanna reduce as much rotating mass as possible. Anyone know weights by comparison?

Rods - I doubt I re use the stock rods because I know the Eagle H Beam rods are around 200grams lighter, is it worth it to go from Eagle rods to a more expensive rod like Pauter etc? Again, anyone know weights by comparison?

Valves - I'm gonna go Ferrea 1mm oversized unless someone can talk me out of it.

Casting Flash - What can I show or tell the machine shop to explain exactly how to clean that s*** out? I saw the build that JWT did for MotoIQ where they milled clean.

Manifolds - I know AMS slightly outflows the MSP manifold but are there any other options that are better?

17-to-18-psi is the limit on 93-octane.

wiseco's are higher-silicon, the weights are negligible, i think? cp's are really good, imo, but noisier?

pauter rods are heavier, but also stronger. eagle rods are fine for most applications.

manifolds, ams manifolds are a can of worms, quality-wise, they're not that great, they don't outflow msp manifolds (that chart that you see is a marketing gimmick). and msp manifolds are made from the foundry where garrett makes their turbo's, nobody knows where ams manifolds are made, some had holes in them.

500-600rwhp is a very ambitious goal, your limit is going to be the fuel, after that, there's the ebc, exhaust, intercoolers, 2.5'' ic piping's, it's just a money magnet.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Well I've got Stillen Intercoolers and full Stillen turbo back exhaust (No cats), that along with the port and polish goin on in the heads I doubt flow will be a problem. Fuel shouldn't be a problem either since I'm gonna run 740cc Nismo injectors and the stock fuel pump can flow up to 700HP. Based on what you say tho I'll probably run Wiseco since they're cheaper anyway. And if Eagles are lighter I'm gonna run them especially since they're plenty strong enough for my application. Who else makes manifolds? Who distributes the MSP manifold other than CZP?

[vulcanrush]

Well I've got Stillen Intercoolers and full Stillen turbo back exhaust (No cats), that along with the port and polish goin on in the heads I doubt flow will be a problem. Fuel shouldn't be a problem either since I'm gonna run 740cc Nismo injectors and the stock fuel pump can flow up to 700HP. Based on what you say tho I'll probably run Wiseco since they're cheaper anyway. And if Eagles are lighter I'm gonna run them especially since they're plenty strong enough for my application. Who else makes manifolds? Who distributes the MSP manifold other than CZP?

it's not the fuel capacity of the fuel injectors, what you have are plenty, it's the fuel itself, i.e., 93-octane, e85, etc.
93-octane limits you at 18-psi of boost?

specialtyz and importpartspro both have/sell msp manifolds.

tt.net or 3zc.com are great sources of information, build topics are very popular.

http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=501
he has 3'' exhausts, jwt cams, and upgraded inlets.

[car nut]

it's not the fuel capacity of the fuel injectors, what you have are plenty, it's the fuel itself, i.e., 93-octane, e85, etc.
93-octane limits you at 18-psi of boost?

18psi? Since when is 18psi the boost limit on 93 octane?

[Ace2cool]

Numbers, numbers, numbers. That's all I hear anymore. This is turning into a mustang forum, I swear. Numbers? Cool. I want times. And not 1/8 or 1/4 mile times, but times around a track. Cause that's where all this power should actually be applied.

[car nut]

Numbers, numbers, numbers. That's all I hear anymore. This is turning into a mustang forum, I swear. Numbers? Cool. I want times. And not 1/8 or 1/4 mile times, but times around a track. Cause that's where all this power should actually be applied.

<Like>

[SaletOn4Wheels]

The car will be tracked, eventually. The first numbers i'm worried about however are gonna be coming from the dyno. And I have heard the 18-19 PSI is the limit with 93 octane but I've also seen people running in the 20's with it so what gives? I've done plenty of research up to this point, my goals are attainable and my plans/mod list can support it. It's gonna be all in the tuning I have a feeling.

As for that link - He's only running15PSI on 91 Octane and he still made 493 RWHP! On race gas he ran 20PSI and got 599 RWHP. Judging from that, if I cant get 550HP on 93 at 18-19 PSI then the dyno or the tuner is f*** up.

[Ace2cool]

I don't think I ever really will have a horsepower goal, is my main point. I just want my car to be fun. The only time I'll have dyno numbers is when I'm optimizing my car's tune, and that will only be a side effect of putting it on the dyno in the first place. Sorry, just pointing out that people keep throwing out "500hp" and "600hp" goals, but I don't think anyone really understands how much that really is.

Regardless, your build is going to be nice. You should post up a build thread in the Z32 Gen area. I for one, want to see some more sweet builds going on. I'm sure the majority of the community would agree.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

I'll post a mega build thread when i gets closer to being done, I want this 1 to be my personal quick reference. The only reason I strive for 500+ HP is because I know it's not easy and on top of that 500 is like a whole different ball game than 400 and under. I'm basically building my car to outperform MOST "supercars" for less than half the price.

[tmeyer29]

it's not the fuel capacity of the fuel injectors, what you have are plenty, it's the fuel itself, i.e., 93-octane, e85, etc.
93-octane limits you at 18-psi of boost?

18psi? Since when is 18psi the boost limit on 93 octane?

+1.....there is no limit, it all depends on tuning, timing, exc.

[blue13]

18psi? Since when is 18psi the boost limit on 93 octane?

+1.....there is no limit, it all depends on tuning, timing, exc.

Of course there's a limit, tuners can't get around the limits of a given fuel type. Octane rating is a measure of knock suppression.
If there's no limit, why would tuners run race fuel such as C16 or Q16? Why not stick to 93-octane all the time?
It's because a given fuel octane/type can only suppress so much knock, under a certain amount of boost.
15-psi is the limit for 91-octane that I've seen, and 17-to-18-psi is the limit that I've seen for 93-octane (with no water/methanol injection).

http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=201

On 93-octane, specialtyz is tuning for 17-psi. And that's with MSP Manifolds, SZ 3" Down Pipes, JWT 400 cams, JWT Dual POP, etc... SZ 3" to 2.5" test pipes and SZ 2.5" dual tip catback, a-spec massives intercoolers, and 2.5'' ic piping's.

And still only 17-psi. To run more, or additional boost, you have to step up to a higher octane.

Op, here are a few pictures of my build, I don't really like to draw attention to myself, I haven't posted up pictures, but hopefully it'll give you a few ideas for your build.



cp pistons, carrillo rods.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

18psi? Since when is 18psi the boost limit on 93 octane?

+1.....there is no limit, it all depends on tuning, timing, exc.

True, I've been running 30PSI peak on stock turbos for months now, no issues. Stock injetors and ICs too. 550RWHP all day long on 89 pump fuel. Don't be a p**** VR, you're just scared of real powah.


Oh wait, no no no no... what you said is FALSE, OF COURSE there's a limit! You can only combust so much air per unit of fuel, that's why you monitor your air/fuel ratio.

The limit isn't X PSI, it's (IMHO) anything above a 12.5:1 AFR. That's the absolute upper limit of what I would consider safe tuning for pump gas. Also, for the last time, 18PSI on stockers does not equal 18PSI on GT28RS turbos. Pressure is a measurement of the engine's resistance to flow. The better the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the more power can be made on less PSI. A more accurate (but harder to measure) unit of measurement would be SCFM of air. This would tell you the actual amount of oxygen entering the engine.

Manifolds - I know AMS slightly outflows the MSP manifold but are there any other options that are better?

LOL, that is also false, and I've seen the "flow test" BTW, that test was done by a body shop, in Canada. Being 1000% honest here, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AMS MAKES out performs the original part. Nothing. The MSP manifolds are far and away the best manifolds for the T2 turbo housing on the Z32. Period. End of discussion.

You never mention turbos?

Headwork?

IC and plumbing?

Casting flash removal is done to improve the coolant flow throughout the block. Unless you know of an extremely capable local shop, one familiar with the VG30 engine would be best, I'd suggest considering Import Parts Pro for your engine build. Kyle is beyond knowledgeable, and has built hundreds of very high performance VG engines over the last 10+ years.

Regarding ICs and plumbing, I'd contact Greg Dupree at SpecialtyZ (click the contact link for email and phone numbers), as they sell the AshSpec Massives and Ash's 2.5" IC piping. They also sell the Z1 58mm throttle bodies, and the SZ coned turbo outlet pipes. Not to mention the best exhaust products for our cars.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Well I didn't wanna get in too deep with it but I guess I'll give up some details.

*I already have Megan Racing downpipes 2.5" I think and full Stillen turbo back exhaust. No cats.
*Stillen Intercoolers, can I run these if I upgrade to 2.5 IC piping or will that create a massive flow bottleneck?
*Turbo Xs BOV's, they suck I know they're being replaced.
*All machining is being done at http://www.besracing.com - Ported and polished heads with SS Ferrea +1mm valves, .20" over bore and casting flash removal, polished and balanced crank. Any sort of write up other than MotoIQ on casting flash removal?
*Wiseco pistons, cheaper than CP and higher silicon content
*Eagle H-Beam Rods
*Turbo kit is gonna be twin Garrett GT2871R's with all braided SS lines etc.
*MSP manifolds after reading several comments on AMS being garbage
*Pulleys, crank UD and water pump OD, brand suggestions?
*Boost Controller/Electronics, no clue..I've heard the Profec B Spec II was garbage..?
*Cluth/Flywheel, the 1 in it now is a decent RPS but I have no clue what I'm gonna need to go with from here.. Twin disc? Sprung vs. unsprung hub? Puck?

There are some things i'm not dead set on and I feel like I might be forgetting some odds and ends so please LMK what you think. Be easy on me guys this is my first car build, I used to be a motorcycle guy where things were simpler.

[Z31toZ32]

wow that thing is going to be a beast when you get done with it. first, your megan downpipes aren't going to fit those turbos. basically any big turbo uses 5 bolt downpipes, and the stockers are 4. you can just resell the megans though, so no real big loss. im not sure on the intercoolers, but if i had to guess they will work, from a flow and fit standpoint. you use silicone hose to connect the aluminum intercooler piping to the intercoolers and then clamp them down, so the difference in inlet size shouldn't be an issue. about the pulleys, a lot of people have had good experiences with the unorthodox crank pulley, and then get the water pump back up to speed with a BilZki pulley. you can get all the rest of the pulleys in shiny aluminum, but the underdriven crank pulley is the only thing that does anything. i was steered away from the profec b when i was looking for a boost controller. i settled on the hks-evcs, which is small and clean. it was a pain to figure out though, the programming instructions were garbage. you will also need a reprogrammed chip. ramey is running a specialty z chip in his car, so that is something to consider. also, you will need to upgrade your intake, assuming you only have a single. it is only good up to 500hp. you might want to look into the selin dual intake setup. not sure on the clutch. you might have a beast of one in there right now. that is about all i can answer, i dont know a thing about a motor build. good luck, it sounds like a lot of fun.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

You can get an ASP underdrive pulley and HI water pump pulley (that's the exact part Coz calls BilZki) from ImportPartsPro. The ASP is a good unit, and cheaper than the UR.

SpecialtyZ is your place for a chip, Selin Dual MAF kit with a second used MAF, and downpipes. Megans are garbage, but people still buy them, which is good for you so you can resell them. The SpecialtyZ 5 Bolt Expansion downpipes are the best available, and will make those Disco Potatoes sing.

AshSpec can modify your Stillen ICs to 2.5" ins and outs. I think SZ does the same. Definitely want to get that done, as your intake is only as efficient as the smallest orifice.

[blue13]

*Wiseco pistons, cheaper than CP and higher silicon content
*Eagle H-Beam Rods

higher silicon content = less noise, but also not as strong when running high boost.
but they should be fine.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

This is good stuff guys thanks a lot!

Ok so SZ for the tuning really? Are they in Texas? I'm in Houston until mid May..

I forgot to mention I will be running JWT cams as well, probably the S4 (unless there's another I should look at.)

blue13, is the difference in strength between CP and Wiseco a noticeable difference? I've heard that higher silicon is best for noise and longevity while lower silicon is stronger but not as long lasting..?

As far as plumbing goes, I think I may sell everything I have and start over. Anyone looking for intercoolers, downpipes and a full exhaust?

Z31toZ32 is the HKS unit pretty nice or was it not worth being a pain in the a**? Any other good options? O and BTW I had been working with Ramey on this car before and he said my compression loss in cylinder 6 was undoubtedly due to fried piston rings. So upon his reccomendations I began this build. I decided to do most of it on my own to save some cost so upon tearing into the motor I was suprised to see the cylinders in decent shape. Im not positive yet because I havent heard back from BES on pressure test results yet but I'm thinking there was a bent valve or something wrong in the head.
Moral of the story: Ramey is super knowledgable/experienced with this car but he is somewhat hard headed. Either way he's a good guy and I plan on having him help me with a few fit and finish things in the end.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Ramey is awesome.

Greg at SZ is one of the best Z tuners in the country. They may be doing a dyno day in Texas sometime this year, but I'd trust their off-the-shelf chip in the meantime over Z1s chip 10 out of 10 times.

[Z31toZ32]

yeah the HKS is nice, but the instructions to operate it/set it up are useless. i have included a recent pic of it. if you end up getting it, i can help you set it up, i finally figured it out. i bought it because tim davis/joe allison recommended it. yeah ramey is a complete bad a** with his garage, tools, and knowledge on the car, but he is a little less than personable, which imo isn't a great way to run a business. tim works with him a lot, and i deal directly with him on as much as i can. if something requires the use of rameys garage or lifts, we just go there. it is fun to be there though because there are z's running in and out all day.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Does SZ tune better than JWT?

Z31toZ32 I'll let you know either way. SZ likes to use the Blitz SBDCII or somethin like that. We'll see. I still have so much to decide on!

Side note - I've heard these cars are notorious for spinning rod bearings and blowing head gaskets. What are the best ways to prevent this, especially the rod bearing..??

[Ace2cool]

These cars, when properly built, are not notorious for any sort of failure at all. Spinning bearings? Make sure your clearances and torques are perfect when you assemble everything. Head gaskets? Make sure you have coolant and a functional water pump when you first start it up.

These cars are not notorious for either of those things.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Does SZ tune better than JWT?

Off the shelf generic tunes (setting injector type, transmission, Fed/Cali emissions, intake etc etc) they're probably within a few HP of each other. But a true dyno tune, on the dyno, custom burnt chip is far and away better than anything availble of the shelf, from any brand.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Ahhhh ok thats good news cuz theres a local (Cincy area) thats a beast tuner, especially with RB's so I'm sure he knows a thing or two about the VG as well...
Here's a new question.. my transmission grinds when I try to shift too quickly. No I wasn't running Redline but I dont think thats the issue. I've heard this was common but fixed in the '98 J-Spec transmission's by way of upgraded synchronizers (sp?) Short of ordering a '98 transmission from Z1 how can I make my transmission better without spending a ton? Can I upgrade the synchros? Is it a difficult or expensive thing to do?
Last 1 for the night.. When lowering the car can I put on some nice coilovers and be done with it or are adjustable tie rods, control arms, toe rods etc. needed?

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Here's a new question.. my transmission grinds when I try to shift too quickly. No I wasn't running Redline but I dont think thats the issue.

Cheap and easy first fix, drain and refill with Redline MT-90. Then see what happens. Next step would be to find a reputable transmission shop to have yours rebuilt. This will be cheaper than a 97+ spec transmission. Some have had good luck with the 97+, some have had issues. Usually the ones who have issues get them take care of under warranty, but it can be a PITA.

Last 1 for the night.. When lowering the car can I put on some nice coilovers and be done with it or are adjustable tie rods, control arms, toe rods etc. needed?

If you stay at stock height with coilovers, no changes to the links are required. If you lower it more than an inch, you'll need the following:

Adjustable front upper arms (FUCA)
Adjustable tension rods
Adjustable rear upper arms (RUCA)

That's all you'd NEED. Adjustable rear toe rods would be nice for NA rear end, and so would adjustable traction rods. But they're not truly required to maintain OEM alignment specs. As for sourcing these parts, as well as the coilovers themselves, Powertrix.com is your best resource for combining value and quality. For the absolute best adjustable arms, check out SPLparts.com.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Awesome thank you very much!

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Issue # 567,897 I have to overcome. The bots that hold in the cam caps seem to be bent, or the cam caps are.. They're very stiff and I would almost say stuck in the caps. Do these warp easily? Are there aftermarket or replacement parts for this scenario?

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Cam caps... you mean the things that hold the cams to the heads? I'd be shocked if those were bent and your engine ran.

[NolimitZ32]

I had a problem with the cam caps when I had my engine apart. what happens is that the bolt holes in the cam journal caps are made to be dead on balls accurate to fit the bolt in so if you get any kind of trash or gunk in there it could make the bolt hard or impossible to get out, I actually had to drill the bolt and force it out when I was building mine because it got stuck. Thanks god no damage to the Journal cap.

[SaletOn4Wheels]

Yes the things that hold the cams down with a bolt on either end. What are they called? I think it might be the actual bolts that warped, not the caps. And ok well hopefully they're just snug and I can still work with them. They are numbered and labeled aren't they? Mine were stamped so I didn't even think to keep them in order...woops. Anyway are there replacements for this or am I screwed if they're bent/tore up?