Help me in considering a new vehicle

[AppleBonker]

Give me ideas to contemplate here. I'm looking to move from my Altima coupe to something more capable. I'd like to have more cargo space and better driving ability in the snow. I'd like to buy used so I don't eat the cost of depreciation. Here is a basic rundown of what I'm looking for:

four-wheel drive
built on a truck platform (either an SUV or a pickup)
not too high in mileage (this will be a DD for an extended period of time if possible)
gas mileage isn't terribly important
creature comforts aren't terribly important
I'd like to stay in the roughly sub-$20k range
it has to be able to accommodate my stereo (there will be a subwoofer in it, so a two-door pickup is out)

What would you do? Should I look for a truck? SUV? I am currently leaning towards an Xterra, but I'm not opposed to an actual truck. It just seems harder to find a decent truck in this price-range with less than 100k miles. I'm not in a hurry to make a purchase - just more in the feeling-it-out phase right now.

Edit: Leaning towards a truck. Thoughts on 2005-2009 pickups?

[RCA]

Being a finance major I would make 1000% sure it is financially feasible before buying expensive things.
If you don't have 6 months of living expenses in savings, don't buy cars (retirement etc etc). There are plenty more safeguards to worry about but I am sure you know what you are doing.

Just don't get into trouble, interest is a bit*h.

[AppleBonker]

Indeed. I'm actually hoping to find something at roughly the same value as my current car. That's why I said it isn't a pressing concern. I'd be more interested in finding a vehicle that fits my needs at a good price than purchasing right away. I guess when I bought the Altima I didn't really think through how impractical it is.

[Bubba1]

You can get a very nice used vehicle with a $20K budget, but with gas around $4/gallon, I would think more about size as you still eventually have to fill that beast up.

If you're looking at a mid sized SUV:
Toyota 4 Runner (I'm biased, Great sized vehicle, roomy but not too big, and very reliable, and part time 4wd, which helps gas mileage).
Nissan Patfhfinder (the old ones are small, but the newer ones are about the same size as a 4Runner. Very nice.

small SUV:
Honda CRV
Toyota Rav4

mid sized pickup:
toyota Tacoma (shares mechanics with a 4 runner), get a crew cab if you intend to have passengers

full sized pickup:
F150 - tough to beat

Full sized SUV:
Acura MDX/Honda Pilot
Toyota Sequoia

If you're concerned about winter handling, you could also consider an AWD car, like a
Infiniti G35X
Subaru Legacy

Test driving vehicles can be a lotta fun. Bonus points for getting the salesman carsick.

Enjoy

[Kompresshun]

I know you mentioned the Xterra already, which I think isn't a bad choice, but i'd also consider a crew cab Frontier if I were buying something for myself. Both are very capable vehicles, but I like having a truck bed personally.

Have you thought about a 4dr Jeep Wrangler too? I used to dislike them a lot, but they've grown on me, plus the the top and doors are removable and they're pretty solid vehicles. You had mentioned doing some minor offroading, which I think any of the above would do excellent as well, but the 4dr Wrangler is quite versatile too.

I honestly feel like other than the used car shortage, this is a prime time to buy an SUV or Truck, because everyone will be dumping them for more economical vehicles. I'd sit and wait, like it sounds like you're already planning on, and you're bound to run across a good deal.

[AppleBonker]

Joel, something Pathfinder-sized or similar may be larger than I need. And even though gas isn't a huge concern, if I'm not getting any benefit out of the larger size, the poorer mileage is a waste. Also, the pathy is generally a bit more refined and I don't see the need to obtain any level of refinement for myself. I've stopped caring a bit for those creature comforts.

The Wrangler is also out. While I like them, I am not about to use one as a daily primarily because I want to install my stereo in it. Even with the hard top, it is stupid easy to bust into one of those. I don't really want my gear stolen right after I install it.

[Kompresshun]

GREAT NEWS! The Dacia Sandero is the obvious choice here



I agree with you on the wasted space part somewhat, we hardly ever use the third tow in the Commander, but it gets the same fuel mileage as most SUVs without one, so i'd rather have it. So many of the mid sized SUVs offer them, I don't see a point in avoiding them, but I don't feel like I have to have one either.

Almost everything in the class you're looking at is going to get similar fuel mileage, so i'd go drive a few that you like, and decide on which ones you would consider buying, then hunt for a good deal on it. I'm with Joel on the 4 Runner and Tacoma, I really like both of them a lot, i'd probably buy a Tacoma over a Frontier honestly

[Bubba1]

Joel, something Pathfinder-sized or similar may be larger than I need. And even though gas isn't a huge concern, if I'm not getting any benefit out of the larger size, the poorer mileage is a waste. Also, the pathy is generally a bit more refined and I don't see the need to obtain any level of refinement for myself. I've stopped caring a bit for those creature comforts.

That's fine. then perhaps you might want to consider a Rav4/CRV. They're no longer the tinny /small borderline chick mobiles when they first came out. In fact they're very reasonably sized and surprisingly roomy. they're also AWD, built very well, and both enjoy top reliability rankings. You could get a newer loaded one and not worry about it. My next door neighbor has one with a manual transmission as his DD and loves it. I had also considered a Rav4 as my wife's DD replacement for her Altima sedan, even took a test drive. but she ended up preferring a sedan.

[AppleBonker]

My only concerns with the CR-V/Rav-4 stem from them being based on car platforms. While I'm not sure that it is necessary, I'm definitely leaning towards something a bit more rugged.

Side note: I was in a 2007 (I think, maybe 2008) CR-V this weekend and was surprised at how roomy the interior was.

[frapjap]

Like I mentioned earlier, XC70 is a solid car. Reliable T5 (can mod if you feel you NEED to), good offroader, cheap insurance, and plenty of space (and even those creature comforts you say aren't exactly necessary). When I was considering buying a new, used car this was at the top of my list. Pricing from '08 is around 15-23k depending on year and regional market.

[AppleBonker]

At this point (after some review), I am probably leaning more towards a pickup. Any thoughts on any brand/trim from maybe 2005-2009?

[Kompresshun]

Tacoma or Frontier Crew Cab, there's nothing that compares for the money.

/thread

[MinisterofDOOM]

My top-3 for midsized SUV in no particular order:

Nissan Xterra
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Chevy Trailblazer short wheelbase (and variants, but the TB is the superior variant unless you're looking for luxury).

The 3 have different strengths so it comes down to which one matches your needs. I love all 3 and would have a very hard time deciding between them. The Trailblazer can be had for a lot less money, though.

The Xterra and FJ have greater offroad capabilities. The TB has a vastly superior powertrain and better road manners at the cost of a little less offroad capability. It'll still go offroad, it's just not going to eat Moab alive.

Ford's '05+ F150 regular cabs were designed to have extra space behind the seats, so you may still be able to fit a sub back there. They're also excellent trucks and one of my favorite pickups ever.


If you want a V8, later current-gen Pathfinders can be had with the VK56DE. The Trailblazer also offers a 5.3 liter iron-block V8 or a 6.0 liter aluminum LS2 V8 (in the hotrod SS trim which is either AWD or 2wd, no regular 4wd). And there's the 4.6 liter Explorer which is the only one worth bothering with since the 4.0 V6 offers no fuel economy advantage.

As far as actual pickups go, midsizers really don't offer any sort of significant fuel economy advantage these days. Nissan and Toyota's 4-liter V6s don't do much better than their half-ton brothers' V8s. So there's really no reason to bother with a midsize pickup unless you failed perpendicular parking on your driving test. In that case, the new Ram is brilliant, the pre-facelift F150/Lincoln Mark LT is fantastic, and the Titan is also excellent. Another 3 that are hard to choose a favorite from.

[Kompresshun]

He's decided a truck would be a better choice, see first post

As far as actual pickups go, midsizers really don't offer any sort of significant fuel economy advantage these days. Nissan and Toyota's 4-liter V6s don't do much better than their half-ton brothers' V8s. So there's really no reason to bother with a midsize pickup unless you failed perpendicular parking on your driving test. In that case, the new Ram is brilliant, the pre-facelift F150/Lincoln Mark LT is fantastic, and the Titan is also excellent. Another 3 that are hard to choose a favorite from.

I absolutely love the last generation F150, i've driven quite a few of them and I would highly recommend them too. I haven't driven the new Ram, but I would imagine that's more than he's looking to spend too.

I agree with MoD on fuel economy though for the most part, my biggest beef is with the crew cab, full size trucks is that they're harder to maneuver than the smaller trucks, and it's just a bunch of wasted space IMHO. I can park pretty much anything fine, but I still prefer the smaller trucks to the larger ones personally.

I also know that a buddy of mine went from an '07 Tacoma Crew Cab V6 to a '10 Tundra Crew Cab V8(4.6L?) and he said it wasn't a huge negative jump in fuel economy, but it was still a 3-4mpg difference. It may not be much, but once you get that low in fuel mileage numbers, it's a lot more noticeable than say 30mpg vs 40mpg. The Frontiers also get a 4-5mpg(maybe more) better fuel mileage than the Titan as well, so unless you really need the small amount of extra space and some extra towing power, I wouldn't go for a full size.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Actually, there's only a 2mpg EPA difference between the Frontier and Titan. Only the 2.5 liter Frontier beats the Titan by 5mpg and you can't actually find those. Even if you could find one, the 2.5 is a terrible engine and is a base-model-only thing you can't get any options with.

[Kompresshun]

Actually, there's only a 2mpg EPA difference between the Frontier and Titan. Only the 2.5 liter Frontier beats the Titan by 5mpg and you can't actually find those. Even if you could find one, the 2.5 is a terrible engine and is a base-model-only thing you can't get any options with.

I stand corrected sir

I still don't completely believe that a Titan really does that well in the real world though. I'm not trying to argue that the V8's aren't the better choice either, because I could give a crap less about fuel economy in most cases, but i've known people with F150's, Titans, Silverados, Rams, and ect. Probably the only ones out of that bunch that actually produced EPA numbers or better were the Silverado(4.8 or 5.3) and Ram(4.7 MDS). In the real world F150's(5.4L) usually get around 12mpg(city, some mixed) and Titans seem to get 12-13mpg(city, some mixed), now this is based upon people I know that drive these every day, so I can say what everyone out there gets.

I know people that get 17-19mpg(city, some mixed) out of the Tacoma(V6) though and Frontier(V6) seem to get 16-18mpg(city, some mixed).

Again, i'm not one to usually care about fuel mileage, but why drive a V8 powered, full size truck when you don't really need it? The V6's these days offer plenty of power too and I imagine that Adam isn't planning on towing a yacht or pulling a house off of it's foundation. Although the latter could be a lot of fun

[AppleBonker]

Fortunately, my daily commute is only about 10 miles. And that's only if I go home on my lunch break, otherwise it's half that. The gas mileage isn't a terribly huge concern. I'd probably lean more full-size and with a V8. I know I don't necessarily NEED the extra power, but since I don't drive too terribly much, the gas cost doesn't change the outcome much. After browsing tons of vehicles, it seems that the full-size trucks depreciate quite a bit faster than smaller trucks/SUVs. Simply put, that might get me the best bang for my buck. That information is really what is pushing me in that direction.

Also, around the 2007 model-year time-frame, it seems Car and Driver believes the Chevy/GMC was the best performing truck in the segment. The Titan owned their awards previously, but the '07 refresh from GM brought them on top. When the Titan was refreshed, it may have regained top honors, but I don't think I'll be interested in the price of a vehicle that new. Granted, that C&D award is only for initial quality/performance and does not factor in longevity (which I am interested in). I have a family member who has been driving trucks exclusively for ages now, and he wont buy anything but GM. I'll have to talk to him about why that is.

[Kompresshun]

I've seen numerous Silverado's from all generations with 200-300k on them and still rolling. If you're gonna go full size, I say a Silverado/Sierra/or F150 would all be awesome choices, i'd sway away from the last generation of Dodge trucks for sure though if you're looking for longevity. I prefer the Sierra over the Silverado personally, just because it looks better but I prefer an F150 overall.

Another thing you might consider is an F250 with the 5.4L V8, a buddy of mine just replaced his '04 F150 ext cab with one and loves it. Says it gets almost identical fuel mileage, but it can tow a heck of a lot more and has tons of room in it. I had one for a company vehicle when I worked for Kenworth and it was awesome.

I still vote Tacoma overall though, even though they're pricey, they're still my favorite

[AppleBonker]

I agree on the Sierra over Silverado. I just like the styling more, but they are essentially identical trucks.

I also love the styling of the ram trucks. However, I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Chrysler vehicles lasting any decent amount of time.

[Kompresshun]

I also love the styling of the ram trucks. However, I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Chrysler vehicles lasting any decent amount of time.

Same here, I just wouldn't buy one personally. While Chrysler has improved, it was until this new generation of Ram that they started to really get better. Also, as I mentioned before, I do drive a Chrysler product but I am VERY meticulous about staying on top of the maintenance and common problems, to prevent it from being a typical Chrysler. Now I know people that love their Rams and the ones with the Hemi in them are pretty wicked, but I still don't trust the transmission in them as far as I could throw it.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I also love the styling of the ram trucks. However, I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Chrysler vehicles lasting any decent amount of time.

The trucks are the one thing they still build well. I agree when it comes to their cars, but I have no fear of the same problems in their trucks.

[AppleBonker]

Interesting. I've heard otherwise from a few owners, though that could just be an unlucky draw.

Also, oddly enough, there are a number of pickups in this area that offer the creature comforts I said I don't care much about at reasonable prices. Depending on the price, it might be an acceptable option. While I might not care too much about the comforts of leather heated seats or dual zone climate control, it appears most women do. A lot.

[MinisterofDOOM]

My dad's '97 Ram has been tremendously reliable and dependable.

[Kompresshun]

Interesting. I've heard otherwise from a few owners, though that could just be an unlucky draw.

My dad's '97 Ram has been tremendously reliable and dependable.

I'm gonna go with MoD's dad got lucky. I've seen far too many Dodge trucks crap their transmissions before 100k miles, some before 75k miles. It slightly improved in the last generation, but it still was a pretty common issue. Dodge trucks have always been known for transmission problems, while it can be prevented by caring for them properly, you still have to usually be very meticulous with caring for them, even then there's nothing guaranteeing that they will last. Buy something that has a good track record, not something that has a questionable one.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

How about a Murano or even a Rogue if you're concerned about fuel economy?

Both have a 4wd (awd I think) option and have decent cargo room. Do you really need a truck platform? I can only see that being an issue if you wanted to do a lot of trail drives/ off roading. For cruising around in the snow, it'll be perfect.

[AppleBonker]

I'm still wanting to stay with a truck platform. Do I really need it? No, probably not. But, I'd rather have it. Also, CVT can lick my taint.

The girl was not a huge fan of the Xterra. She didn't much care for the un-refined aspect of the vehicle. May be leaning a bit harder towards a truck now. Probably either a Titan or a Silverado/Sierra.

[Bubba1]

I'm still wanting to stay with a truck platform. Do I really need it? No, probably not. But, I'd rather have it. Also, CVT can lick my taint.

The girl was not a huge fan of the Xterra. She didn't much care for the un-refined aspect of the vehicle. May be leaning a bit harder towards a truck now. Probably either a Titan or a Silverado/Sierra.

Some other thoughts: The best midsized pickup on the market is the Tacoma. It;s one of the more reliable pickups out there, Since they hold their value better than most other pickups so they;re gonna appear pricey used. The double cab is the one you want if you intend to take passengers or want to haul groceries without dealing with the bed.

the good news is about the titan is that Nissan seems to have worked out their gremlins. Problem is the used ones in your price range are from before the gremlins were fixed. A new one would be a good choice, but I'd be concerned about older ones.

As far as car based SUV's vs truck based ones. Unless you're planning to do some serious off roading, or heavy towing, the car based SUV's tend to ride more comfortably and still perform well in snow. the car based ones are for the most part no less reliable or functional than truck based ones. Also you might want to think the bigger picture with your vehicle. You said you have a short commute, but with a $20K vehicle aren;t you' gonna also use it for more than just commuting, like vacation trips, errands and such? This is where you need to think carefully about the type of vehicle you want. A SUV/wagon will give you more versatility than a pickup truck. Plus if you're concerned about winter driving, pickup trucks are traditionally not as good in snow.

[AppleBonker]

I may be looking at occasional off-roading. And I'm sure at some point in the future I will need to tow something (though I doubt it will happen often). And yes, the vehicle will be used for more than just my daily commute. Though probably not frequently enough for the difference in gas mileage to have a huge impact. Also, I've pretty much focused on full-size trucks with a crew cab, so there is sufficient storage space locked inside the cab. Either way (SUV or truck), I will have a lot more room than on my Altima coupe. As far as the winter driving goes, anything with 4WD will be better than the A/C. The freaking open diff makes it nearly impossible to accelerate on unplowed streets. I've launched as high as third gear and still lose traction...

[PEZi]

Edit: Leaning towards a truck. Thoughts on 2005-2009 pickups?

Frontier... hands down.

Unless you're willing to splurge on something new, in which case I think the new F150 with the EcoBoost engine is miles ahead of anything else in its class

[AppleBonker]

I test drove a Titan last night and really enjoyed it.