HELP!loud turbo!

[white240]

i was woken up by my car alarm going off so i ran out side to see my dad trying to start my car,last time he touched my car my engine blew btw. so expecting him to just pull it out and out of the way to get the van he took off with it.so he pull sit back into teh drive way parks it and thats it returning from dunkin doughnuts. so just 5 miutes ago i get in and move teh car out again,i hear this very loud kinda rumbly turbo and stuff and i shut teh car off immedatly and check to see whats up. nothingi can tell.i have blitz lm intake,gp sports exhaust and no cat. stock down pipe. what the hell is wrong with my car! i only had it running for 2 weeks! she was running GREAT. please help.

[Cyberkreig]

there is honestly no way to know. Internet diagnostics and "rumbly" sounds probably cant pinpoint a problem. If you are really worried I'd say take it to a mechanic you trust and let him listen to it.

It is entirely possible that your father, seeming to know little about cars, took your car out without letting the oil warmup.. beat on the car in and out of boost and FUp your turbo (bearings). IF this is the case, it would have gone out soon anyway.

It is also possible it is something totaly different. =(Give us more to go on and we'll try to help..

[iliketocrash]

there is honestly no way to know. Internet diagnostics and "rumbly" sounds probably cant pinpoint a problem. If you are really worried I'd say take it to a mechanic you trust and let him listen to it.

It is entirely possible that your father, seeming to know little about cars, took your car out without letting the oil warmup.. beat on the car in and out of boost and FUp your turbo (bearings). IF this is the case, it would have gone out soon anyway.

It is also possible it is something totaly different. =(Give us more to go on and we'll try to help..

"not letting the oil warm up" a cause for turbo damage? i can't see that happening. Your turbo must have been on its way out anyway.

[Unnatural]

Maybe there's a donut in there?! Seriously...if a quick drive killed it, it was probably living on borrowed time to begin with. I would see if you can get in there and examine the blades of the compressor and exhaust wheels for any damage from debris. It doesn't take a very large solid particle to kill a turbo. Check shaft play and see if it spins free. Make sure that neither wheel is rubbing on the housing. You are positive that this noise is from the turbo?~Brendan

[Cyberkreig]

"not letting the oil warm up" a cause for turbo damage?

Absolutely. Not catestrophic one time damage, but damage over time. An oil's viscosity changes with temperature, not to mention that it takes a few seconds to several minutes for all parts of the motor to get fully lubricated when starting from cold. This is why you SHOULD ALWAYS start your car and let it warm before driving. And why you should not rev your motor right after starting from cold.

[iliketocrash]

i know that it can take a little bit for everything to become lubricated but that doesn't really require the oil to "warm up". So i still fail to see how not letting the oil "warm up" could do much if any damage at all.

[float_6969]

iliketocrash, he just explained it.

Quote »An oil's viscosity changes with temperature[/quote]

Thats the basics of it. At lower temperatures, the oil doesn't flow well. If it doesn't flow well, it's harder to get it to all of the parts of the motor. If it can't get to the various parts of the motor, then it can't lubricate them. That is why they created multi-viscosity oils. So that problem would be reduced. But when you are dealing with something that is spinning at a relatively high speed, even at idle, that can be a problem. That is why you shouldn't rev a cold motor, and why you REALLY shouldn't rev a cold turbo motor. In most cases the turbine shaft actually floats on the oil flowing through it, and if there is no oil, then the shaft is in direct contact with the bearing (which it wasn't designed to be) and therefor causes damage. That was about as complicated as I could make it and it was still pretty simple.

[Unnatural]

Quote »An oil's viscosity changes with temperature[/quote]This is true, multi-vis oils do change viscosity depending on temperature. That doesn't mean that when you start a cold engine that there is no oil protecting it (this does not include new or rebuilt engines that have never been run and have not been properly primed). In fact, if this is the case you're using the wrong oil or there is a problem with the oiling system. A good quality oil of the proper viscosity for the engine and temp will not leave your turbo and bearings high and dry. A properly selected oil will leave a nice layer of oil on engine and turbo bearings so that when you start the engine you don't have this problem.

This situation is fine as long as there are no other problems with the engine oiling system. Once the engine is started the oil pump will supply the engine and turbo with oil almost instantly. If your waiting more than a second or two, much less minutes as mentioned above, you've got big problems. If you've selected the proper viscosity oil then it will get into everything it needs to be into immediately.

It is unlikely this was the problem; unless there is something clogging the oil feed to the turbo or there is some other oil system problem. I'm not saying that letting the engine warm up is bad. I just think this is the problem...unless one of the above mentioned problems exists.~Brendan

[240_Keyy]

does it sound like it is coming from the turbo? It *could* be an exhaust leak at the turbo to manifold junction. Did you change the turbo to manifold gasket? Mine blew out a few minutes after I got the car running and it sounded kinda like you are describing. While the engine is running, stick your hand in between the shock tower and the turbo and see if you feel air puffing onto it.

[MojoMan]

I think Iv'e blown every gasket on that engine that were the originals. You should be able to find it pretty fast. Like, within a minute. You proly didnt torque something down well enough and blew one of the gaskets out. Iv'e done that before. Its not fun tearing s*** apart right after putting it back together. Every gasket you blow on the exhaust system you can get from the nissan dealer. Did you ask good ol dad what the Fu(k he was doing and if he was gettin up on it and to next time warm it the Fu(k up. Thats what I would have done. But then again I dont live at home so no worries. Sorry...that would piss me the Fu(k off.

[float_6969]

Unnatural, you are right. My idea of a cold engine is when it's like 30 degrees out side. I live in Kansas and in the span of 6 month our temperatures go from and average of high 90's to never getting above freezing. When I think cold motor, I think 30degree weather. And at those temps, even with a coating of oil on the moving parts of the motor, it's still too cold to do a whole lot for it. I guess we should have clarified what "cold" meant. Thanks for straightening me out!

[Unnatural]

Kansas eh? I have lots of family in Salina. It does get nice and cold there during the winter. I remember many snowy Christmas' up there. We don't normally get lots of snow here in North Texas; but hey at least we get some bitter cold complete with LOTS of wind!~Brendan

[Samabra]

Maybe his car blew up and killed him so he dosn't care anymore....

......but seriously though, it sounds to me like an exhuast leak. The plug for my EGT probe hole fell out and I freaked out cause it sounded really bad. I hunted for a little while and found out that I only needed to plug the hole.

Made me happy Chris

[white240]

***cured***fellas were right my probe fell out of Ma HoLe.=P well it was jb welded haha and i guess me and jb dont see eye to eye,i had the thing welded shut today. sounds poooyefect

[Unnatural]

JB Weld and the heat from the turbo manifold don't see eye to eye. But your relationship with it is just fine!...oh nevermind. Glad to here you found the problem and it was an easy fix!~Brendan

[Samabra]

Way to go dude. Keep in mind as you go through your swap that you tend to think the worst as things happen with your car. Like for instance today, I took my shift boot off to check something on my transmission. When I put it back together the rubber material was bunched together at the end closest to the back of the car. So then I'm driving home and as I put it in 4th gear, the shifter just pops right out again. Its freaking me out, until I realize its just the boot forcing the shifter out of place. What a relief. Chris

[Movingviolation240]

i know that it can take a little bit for everything to become lubricated but that doesn't really require the oil to "warm up". So i still fail to see how not letting the oil "warm up" could do much if any damage at all.

not to call you stupid... but that's a pretty dumb statement. The turbine shaft dosn't ever touch the bearing in 'normal' opperation. It rides on a film of oil and the bearing also floats on a film of oil spinning at like 1/10th the shaft speed (so like 5000rpm's) If the oil is about as thick as Daunttless' head because it's cold it isn't going to 'work right'. Not to mention that the inner workings of a turbo are very tight, so that thick oil isn't going to flow in there well in the first place. So the less stress you put on the turbo durring this critical warmup time the longer it's going to last. Starting a cold motor hard is the worst thing you could do to it, so please make it easy on the whole motor and let it warm up before you start to beat on it.

Another thing to figure is that all the clearences in the motor are going to change when it heats up (things start to expand) so nothing is going to quite fit right untill you get it up to operating temp.

PaulOrlando, FL

[iliketocrash]

no one said anything about beating on anything before the car warms up. i owned a 94' eclipse gsx w/ 120k on it. i would drive it all the time w/out letting it "warm up" and it still ran perfectly, turbo and all. I know the owner before me almost never let it warm up either, except during winter, which i did as well. i really don't believe that running a turbo charged car before it "warms up" does as much damage as you're trying to make it seem. stock turbos are meant to take a beating because the car is for the general public and they know a lot of people will beat on the cars, not change the oil and generally just neglect the vehicle. starting a car and then taking it out and beating the hell out of it is a different story, and even then it doesn't do catastrophic damage.

[Movingviolation240]

notice how few cars come with a turbo nowdays? It's because they can't take the abuse and they fail all the time. That's one of the reasons they went to ballbearing turbo's for the newere Nissans. It has nothing to do with lag, it's all about durrability. I've rebuilt more turbo's than you've owned, trust me they do show wear a lot quicker than you'd imagine. Working in a machine shop has taught me all sorts of things about how hard a warmup is on a motor. Reving it over 4000rpm is considered 'beating on it' IMHO untill you get that oil temp up. Not to mention the 100+ PSI coldstart oil pressures you get above 5000rpm can really do a number on your seals.

Paul

[iliketocrash]

actually there were never many turbo cars in the US to begin w/ and a lot of them died out anyway, and its because the consumer didn't like turbo cars at the time. They just didn't sell as well. I'm sure some of it had to do w/ durability issues but i have a lot of friends w/ older turbo cars that have 100k+ miles on them and are still running strong on stock turbos. Before you call me stupid for saying that the consumer didn't like turbo charged cars, you should do a little research and you'll find there is some valididity to my claim. Besides, we've gotten off the real topic anyway and i don't think that white240's turbo would be perfectly fine one day and then just fall apart the next because he didn't let his oil warm up.

[Cyberkreig]

Besides, we've gotten off the real topic anyway and i don't think that white240's turbo would be perfectly fine one day and then just fall apart the next because he didn't let his oil warm up.

I did not say "fine one day dead the next"

Read the last line, 2nd paragraph, my 1st post."IF this is the case, it would have gone out soon anyway"

Not warming oil is bad for a turbo car. Anyone here that wishes to disagree may, that is your choice. I, however, will let my car idle before I ever back it out of the garage.

[iliketocrash]

if his turbo was on its way out then there would have been some kind of signs that it was, however he didn't mention anything like that. so i'm assuming the turbo was fine the day before. so i don't believe that the oil issue would have caused HIS problem.

[Cyberkreig]

Fair Enough.

Good conclusion to the thread.