HELP HELP HELP: Head Bolts Won't Budge, May Have Damged!!

[rico05]

Ok, many of you know that I am changing my headgasket this weekend. Well, I am at the pull the head stage, using a 10mm hex on the head studs with a torque wrench. I start to put force on the stud, then all of a sudden, it slips out. Ok. Hmmmm. I take a look and there is some damage to the hex on the stud. Oh crap. I try again, this time with a lot of force down on the stud. Again, slips. I am deathly afraid of damaging this stud. Someone, anyone, give me a clue. I can't move forward until this is done.

Should I just tow to a shop at this point?

[damesta]

I had that happen on a one of my flywheel bolts and on a 4age headbolt. The only thing I could get to work was these:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr...66000

Just soak it in pb blaster first and you should be ok.

[rico05]

Well, this is in the head. Not enough room to really use one of those. Could it be that there is some oil on the studs still?

F'ing shops. I call to get a quote to just pull the head and they are all closed today
Modified by rico05 at 1:02 PM 2/12/2006

[damesta]

They make those in all different sizes, including thin walled for tight places. I wouldn't take it to a shop just because of one bolt. Let it soak in pb blaster and clean it with brake cleaner, then use one of the bolt removers, they really do work very well. The way they are designed makes them pull theirselves down onto the bolt while they gripping it, they have worked everytime Ive used them and I have used them for headbolts before. I would help you out if it wasn't so far, I'm about an hour south of houston.

[rico05]

Ok, so my roommate and I came up with 2 theories:1. The pooled oil in the head is filling the hex hole on the top of the headstud. It may be that the oil is not allowing the hex driver to fully enter the stud. Hyrdaulics ftw.

2. I am using a $30 Harbor Freight torque wrench to break these free. Could it be the progessive nature of the torque wrench's torque application that is making this all go wrong? I've got a meaty 1/2" socket drive drive and some pipe, so a mean breaker bar can be made.

damesta: Wanna make $100? I've even throw in $25 for gas and I'll buy you lunch

[Nowhere]

You'll need an extension and a small sledge hammer.

Put the 10mm hex tool into the head bolt, 3/8 or 1/2" (whatever your tool needs..) on the hex tool. Hit the setup with the sledge hammer, be semi/a little gentle. Use about 4 ~ 6 " of swing distance as a judgement of force.

After a couple of whacks, try to remove the bolt..

A non technical description:

Hit the head bolt with a small sledge hammer (regular hammer will work too...). The bammmming will loosen the bolt.

Look @ the picture...

[Nowhere]

Ok, so my roommate and I came up with 2 theories:1. The pooled oil in the head is filling the hex hole on the top of the headstud. It may be that the oil is not allowing the hex driver to fully enter the stud. Hyrdaulics ftw.

Yep, the hex bolt will fill with crap, hitting the hex tool will force all the crap out..

This is the only way to remove suzuki heads..

The reasoning to use a socket extension on the hex socket is to maul/damage the $.50 extension vs the more expensive socket..

In "preserving" the bolt, once that hex bolt is stripped, it's a REAL pain in the a$$ to get out.. The bolts should back out WAY before stripping the hex head.

[damesta]

I can't today, that would be a 2-3 hour drive each way and I have some stuff to do later. If you were close I'd definitly be there though. Try what nowhere says as well, that should definitly help loosen it as well as get the crap out of it.

[fanta]

You should not be using a torque wrench to loosen hardware.

[rico05]

Well color me retarded. I went out and only the outer rim of the stud is fudged. I used an extension, forced the hex into the stud with my hand, and it stuck in hard enough that I separated the extension from the hex socket when I tired to pull it out. I had to use a pair of needle nose to pull it out, LOL. So it seems that my lack of experience has shown (once again).

fanta: See, that is what I thought, but when I read that dude's How To, he mentioned using the torque wrench to pull and reinstall the studs."The head bolts must be loosened in 2 or 3 stages, loosening all bolts to matching torques at each stage in the order specified in the manual. A long 10mm Allen key and a torque wrench are needed to undo and retighten the head bolts."

And then in the FSM, the only mention of using a torque wrench is in the retightening stage (22ft/lb, then 76ft/lb). I will use my 1/2" drive to get em out tomorrow morning.

This car drives me to drink......

[c-rad]

You'll need an extension and a small sledge hammer.

Put the 10mm hex tool into the head bolt, 3/8 or 1/2" (whatever your tool needs..) on the hex tool. Hit the setup with the sledge hammer, be semi/a little gentle. Use about 4 ~ 6 " of swing distance as a judgement of force.

After a couple of whacks, try to remove the bolt..

A non technical description:

Hit the head bolt with a small sledge hammer (regular hammer will work too...). The bammmming will loosen the bolt.

Look @ the picture...

This is how I had to get one of mine out... I hammered the hex socket into the head of the bolt and then used all my force and rage to get it out. It worked.

[damesta]

So? Did you get it out?

[rico05]

Kick a$$. I just got one loose with the hammer method. Well, now the hex is stuck, but that is better than taking this all to a shop! Head should be off soon.

Modified by rico05 at 12:13 PM 2/13/2006
Modified by rico05 at 12:19 PM 2/13/2006

[rico05]

So the PCV line that runs under the intake mani to the block took about 2 hours. I had no clue how to get it off. It took me 4 hours (and me and my roommate's backs) to get the head studs and the head off. That is it. Geez, I wish I had just pulled the motor

I spent the better part of 2 hours cleaning house. The old gasket was blown out at the back, piston #4, near the right rear water jacket. All in all, today sucled. Wednesday will be day 4 of work, and hopefully the last...

WTF do I use to clean the head? Chemicals and a clean rag? Plastic scraper?

[originalsin]

if you wana do it right have the head checked for warping, possibly have it machined

[Dattebayo]

Thats funny, I wish I had seen the post earlier because the EXACT same thing happen to me when I removed my head... lol I was sh.iting bricks when I thought I stripped the allen head, and then i used a hammer and a breaker bar, and ta-da, bolt broke loose.

I had the fortune of having the motor outside the car, though

Do you have a idea of what head gasket you are going with? I would love to know a good make.

[rico05]

Yeah, a Cometic MLS one. Got it in the mail last Thursday.



I *could* take it to a shop, but I won't. So, any ideas for cleaning the head?

[LasVegas240sx]

I always have used a razor blade. They are the small ones that come wraped with a piece of cardboard paper. I take it and scrape VERY lightly and do it straight so you don't knick the head at all. After that I use solvent or Acetone if your brave with a rag and get all the gunk off of there.

If your not comfortable with the razor blade (some aren't) your gonna be scrubbing a little bit with the rag.

[rico05]

I got most of the block cleaned with B12 chemtool. I was afraid to use something that harsh on the head. I will try some carb cleaner and that razor blade idea.

[Dattebayo]

Never, EVER use acetone. The keytone alcohol in it will eat up any non-metal seals in your head if you miss or drop some in a place where you didnt mean to...

Cleaning is pretty expensive though, but I've been thinking about getting the head mating surface professionally cleaned. You can, after all, get the rest of the block with some simple green or something.

[LasVegas240sx]

Never had a problem with it myself. But if that's true, I'll never use it on the head myself again. You can go to a local printing supply store and pick up some Mild Solvent. I use Blanket Wash, it's mild but not too mild. Nothing too harsh though if the acetone is going to eat things up be weary.

When you use the razor blade, be VERY VERY (did I say very?) careful. If you knick or mark the head you could be looking at an extremely expensive mistake on your hands. It will get the junk off there but I just want to stress how easy you have to go on it, I'd hate to hear that you have to buy a new head or have machine work done on the motor.

With that said, Thanks 2BN_S13 for the info. I'll never use Acetone on any sealed parts again.

Hope everything works out on it, sounds like your on the right track.

[Dattebayo]

Yeah, a Cometic MLS one. Got it in the mail last Thursday.

rico05, Can you post the url of the site you got it from? I am going to spluge for it on friday along with a euro 4-port head and lower manifold piece. I need to get the motor together for transport by next sunday, so please help me.

[c-rad]

rico05, Can you post the url of the site you got it from? I am going to spluge for it on friday along with a euro 4-port head and lower manifold piece. I need to get the motor together for transport by next sunday, so please help me.

http://www.cometic.com Call them and order it direct.

[rico05]

The part number and price is in the sticky. They said normal orders take 2 days to be processed and shipped, with shipping taking about a week (so 8-10 after order is placed you should get it) I ordered last Tuesday, had it red flagged and got it Thursday...for $53 (plus the ~$100 for the gasket).

[Dattebayo]

Why did you have to pay $153? Your wording about "red flagging" has confused me...

[rico05]

Ok, if I had paid the $100 for the gasket, then the like $10 for regular shipping, when I ordered it last Tuesday afternoon, it would have shipped Friday at the earliest. It would have come UPS Ground, which from Cometic's facility in Ohio, would put it at about 3-4 days. So, I paid last Tuesday, and I may have gotten it yesterday.

"Red Flagged" is the term that Cometic used on the invoice for fast shipping. They shipped it same day and I got it Thursday, within 48 hours of ordering. So, "Red Flagged" means it was a high priority order, and the $53 was to insure that I had it for the weekend.

[Valley]

they're kind've hard to find but some places carry plastic razors so you won't nick aluminium parts

[rico05]

Weird. Never heard of that.

I used a LOT of elbow grease and B12 (leaves no residue, and is seal safe) and cleaned the tough spots w/ a razor.

Smoooove......