Help! Failed emisions!!!

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

I just went to get me new 240 inspected and i failed. The car is totally stock besides an Ebay filter and Mas adapter. I just seafoamed my engine replaced the spark plugs and o2 sensor and i was sure i would pass. Could it be the ebay rice screwing me over? Here are the readouts. It was on the dynamic dyno type emisions test.

NOx (std.) 1045 (result)1544HC (std.)136 (result) 6CO% (std.).76 (result).04

I'm only over on my NOx and extremly under on my other two. I was thinking it was the ebay filter and no egr. Or maybe my cat.Thanx for any help

Post by **navysnail** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

is the egr functioning correctly, high combustion temperatures are the cause of nox

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

well the egr isn't even hooked up. Like that black hose that is supposed to connect to the intake box is just hangin there not running to anything.

Post by **Touchdown038** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

That's your AIV, and that shouldn't affect emissions as long as the car's warm.

The EGR is the valve next to the ECCS air collector.

Post by **navysnail** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

and make sure that black hose is pluged and the hole in the air filter box is pluged

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

Ok here is a pic i just took to help explain what is going on. The hose that is outlined is the one that is not connected. I was under the impression that this was the egr(exhaust gas resicultion valve) am i wrong? Could this be why im failing emisions?

Post by **[s3]** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

thats aiv

Post by **navysnail** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

that wont have anything to do with emisions once car is warmed up. it is not necessary, and many people remove it.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

The AIV WILL affect HC results even on a hot motor. On my old S13 and a friend's S13, we both failed the HC emissions. I replaced the AIV vacuum acuated plunger valve and both cars convincingly passed. I am aware the FSM doesn't seem to indicate this, but my actual experience says otherwise.

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

but it is my NOx that is way over? my HC is under. Should i just get the old intake box and put it back in. Maybe the it is the intake letting in to much air.

Post by **NISTECH** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

no guy you have an egr problem. the other readings being under are not a big deal actually the lower the better. If your HC's were over the limit I would say you had a lean fuel condition going but your readings indicate you simply do not have EGR. your egr is the gold disc in the back on the passenger side og the engine mounted to the intake manifold. If you can with the car idleing reach under the EGR valve and push your fingers up inside of ityou should be able to push the diaphram inside up. when you do that the car should stumble and almost die if not actually die out on you. If that happens it indicates the egr has the ability to flow and work if its supplied vaccum. If that test comes out ok you now need to determine why its not getting or holding vaccum when its applied. folow the single vaccum hose attached to the egr valve back to the BPT [looks alot like the EGR valve but has 2 bolts through the top of it, 2 vaccum ports on top and one hose on the bottom. check the hose on the bottom. See if it is cracked ,soft or broken. if it is replace it and have your car retested. any additional tests will require the use of a vaccum gauge. let me know if you have one or can get one and I will walk you through the vaccum tests.

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

I will go and try the first test right now. BRB

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

Ok i just got back. I puhed the diaphram up before and after it was wormed up and it mad the engine studder and almost stall out. What is my next step? Replace all those little lines coming from the black egr looking thing with the 2 screws? I have work till 5:00 today so i will catch ya later.

Post by **yellow_jacket** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

I would check your timing as well as your egr valve.

Do what NISTECH said. Do the vacuum tests!

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

ok i looked again under the BPT and i seems that it only has a rubber elbow running to a steel line. It is hard to even see it let alone feel it to see if it is craking. Am i looking at the right thing. Where can i get a vaccum tester and what are the procedures of doing it? Also is there any way to just Temporarily fix the problem just so i pass emisions? or does not having a working egr hurt the engine.

Post by **NISTECH** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

that hose is what I was telling you to check you need to determine if there is a hole burnt in it. The hose has exhuast in it. when the back pressure builds in the exhuast it pushes a diaphram up inside the BPT to close off a vaccum bleed to atmosphere and allows that vaccum to go to the egr to lift that internal diaphram. This Hose can burn through since it has a very small amount of exhaust heat in it. If you determine that hose is ok. You need to go to your local auto parts store and buy a vaccum gauge to test the system.

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

ok i will check it tom. It is that rubber elbow i am checking, right? Should i remove something to get to it? I believe there is a line or two above the bpt, that way i can access it better. Also i have a few questions about the operations of the egr. If i rev the engine by the throttle body with one hand and put a finger under the egr should i feel the diaphram move at all? I ask this becouse if when i rev it does funtions the way it is supposed to, then maybe it is my cat. converter, my exhaust gas smeels real funky sometimes.btw: how much should i expect to spend on a vacuum tester. is it a kit, a gauge, pump?

Post by **NISTECH** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

driftin8nez wrote:ok i will check it tom. It is that rubber elbow i am checking, right? Should i remove something to get to it? I believe there is a line or two above the bpt, that way i can access it better. Also i have a few questions about the operations of the egr. If i rev the engine by the throttle body with one hand and put a finger under the egr should i feel the diaphram move at all? I ask this becouse if when i rev it does funtions the way it is supposed to, then maybe it is my cat. converter, my exhaust gas smeels real funky sometimes.btw: how much should i expect to spend on a vacuum tester. is it a kit, a gauge, pump?

Yes it is the elbow hose. remove the 2 small bolts on the top of the BPT and lean the bpt over gently so you can inspect the hose. Thos lines on top is where you will be doing the vaccum checks.

If you rev the engine at a stand still[ not driving] it will not open since the BPT will not be closeing the vaccum bleed due to the lack of backpressure in the exhuast. However if you have a 1 1/4 socket and a pair of vice grips you can create the exhaust back pressure by clamping it in your tail pipe tip. place the socket with the open side facing you into the tip and clamp it down in the tip with your visegrips. Goose the throttle 2 or three times at the throttle body then hold it steady at 2000 rpms [approx] for 10 to 15 secs. reach your fingers under the egr and goose the throttle from the 2000 rpms point you should feel movement in the valve it self it will not be anything dramatic just a flutter feeling that will tell you it is responding to the throttle. This test can be performed and is more accurate with the vaccum gauge too.

The oder your getting from your exhaust is the NOx.

You can just purchase the gauge its not to much. probably less then 20 bucks. get like 3 ft of vaccum hose when you get it so you can run it up to the windsheild so you can see it while driving. and if the gauge doesnt come with a vaccum tee get one of those too.

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

ok i will inspect the hose and replace if needed. Then i will take a trip to pep boys and pick up a vacuum tester. I will put the t fitting on the hose on top of the bpt. The hose that i will split is the one to the right on top if you are standing at the front of car. is this correct?also what am i looking for on the vacuum gauge?

Post by **MarkEmark** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

Man, that sucks that you failed and your car is completely stock...mine passed (second time around) and is highly modified.

Anyway, I was 500 PPM too high for th NOx the first time I took mine through as well.

The next time I went through, I was 504 PPM lower than the first time I went through for the NOx rating (that is, I passed by 4 PPM).

This is what I did: Changed my rear 02 sensor, new plugs, 10% methanol in 93 octane gas, retarded the timing quite a bit (10 deg BTDC), and lowered my fuel pressure (29 psi). Now of course, mine is turbocharged and has different fuel injectors, fuel pump and ECU than a stock 240, but from what I've read, methanol and retarded timing WILL help to lower the NOx.... My EGR, etc was all functional at the time too (and I had a high-flow cat as well, not the stock one though).

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

Well i just inspected that hose and found something interesting. I attached a picture of the hose. Tell me what you think

Post by **navysnail** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

thats the problem right there

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

yep, I will replace the hose and restest on monday after class. Thanx for everyone's help so Far and i hope everything goes ok with inspection now.

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

I passed :ylsuper Thanx again

Post by **navysnail** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

did you pass by alot

Post by **driftin8ez** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

1045 standard 834 result on the NOx

Post by **k6kicker** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:03 pm

sweet

Help! Failed emisions!!!

Help! Failed emisions!!!

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