HELP: '90, S13 won't start, acts like dead battery but isn't

[RamonetB]

Hello again, everyone.

I've got a strange one here. Car first started to act like the battery was dying or the starter was going. But both check fine. Either way the car won't start. Here's a quick run down of events and knowns:

Turn key, car very sluggish to start, acting like battery is barely charged before engine catches and runs. Once running, all is fine. (no charge light or any other issue)
The next day, turn the key and the car won't start. No clicking, no starter trying, no nothing from the engine.

But here is where it gets WEIRD.

Initially, everything electrical works in accessory position. Headlights are strong, stereo, etc. All good.
Turn the key, car won't start, no clicks, and then LOSS OF ALL POWER. Now there are no headlights, no nothing. Even door locks don't work.
Step back, let it sit a few minutes, and power is restored. Process highly repeatable.

Another oddity: When all power is lost, eventually the LCD clock on the dash tries to come back. But the numbers are all skewed, just like an alarm click with a very lower battery. Try to open the door or turn the dome light or anything else on and all power is lost again. Turn all electrical sources off, LCD starts to come back again.

Another: Key in ignition was warm. Not hot, but warm. I had a faulty ignition switch in a different 240, so starting issue could be that again. But it doesn't explain all the other stuff (like no power and no start with directly powering the starter).

Things tried:
Battery is sitting pretty with 12.7V
Jump starting didn't work.
Jumping the starter solenoid (hot only) didn't work.
Ground terminal on starter is clean.
Cleaning battery terminals didn't work (they were already very clean).

I've not encountered something like this before. First thoughts might be starter relay by the battery (but wouldn't jumping the solenoid skip that anyway?) And that relay wouldn't explain the weird electrical issues. It's almost as if I'm trying to draw too much power from a nearly defunct battery, but again, battery tests fine and all this stuff even goes on during a jump. Neutral switch on the clutch hasn't been checked and while that would explain the no start, it doesn't explain the power issue.

Is this a bad ground?

Any other ideas I can look into?

Thanks in advance.

-Kirk

[Hijacker]

Make sure the ground cable's attachment point on the engine and chassis are clean and corrosion free.

Other than that, it sounds like you hit a lot of the hot spots that could cause your issue. Make sure you don't have some form of draw on the system somewhere as well. That could be draining the battery during downtime. Check your alternator to make sure it's charging properly when it's running. Battery voltage is usually a bit higher around 14V, but 12.7V shouldn't be earth shattering low. If you can get the car running again, check voltage across the terminals and see if it holds around 14V.

[TheRoadShark]

Make sure the ground cable's attachment point on the engine and chassis are clean and corrosion free.

+1 for that. That area on the frame seems to like to rust and corrode something fierce.

[RamonetB]

+1 for that. That area on the frame seems to like to rust and corrode something fierce.

What area specifically is this? I know of the ground points behind the headlights and along the driver's side. Is there another one I should be looking at?

[Hijacker]

The negative cable for your battery attaches to the chassis just under the battery tray and then attaches to the motor. Without it, all those ground points throughout your car are meaningless.

[TheRoadShark]

The negative cable for your battery attaches to the chassis just under the battery tray and then attaches to the motor. Without it, all those ground points throughout your car are meaningless.

Zackly. On the 240 I just inherited, the ground terminal mounting point was so rusted thru I was able to just grab it and rip it out / off (oops). Florida car. Had to make a new mounting location. Definitely a place to check.

[IAMTheRuckus]

Only other thing I can think to add is check resistance from your negative battery terminal to the chassis. Should be low 0-2 ohms, if the number is higher you have a problem.

Read and try this and see if it helps, let us know how it goes.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/checki ... 240sx.html

[TheninjaS13]

Need some help with this one I have a s13. That had the battery hook up to the wrong terminals. Can this be fixed? I have no start and no electronics. If so where do I start?

[RamonetB]

I just wanted to quickly follow up on this since everything is working now!

Turns out my problem was three fold.

1) As Hijacker mentioned, the main ground from the battery (negative battery terminal to the battery tray) was finicky. It hadn't actually rusted through, as it's still in pretty good condition. BUT, the cable was loose in the clamped metal. It can actually be pulled and pushed around. This really needs to be fixed! Now, it can't be pulled out, as it gets very solid when pulled on, and this is what I've done for the time being.

2) Probably related to combined problems of 1 and 3, but the starter solenoid is bad. Or, rather, very weak. Independent testing shows the solenoid doesn't have the same snap or pull a new one does. Combination of weak spring and aged coils.

3) Starter motor itself is stiff and gunked up. It may or may not have bad brushes (I haven't rebuilt it yet), but the lever is stiff and so is turning the bendex gear by hand. A spare starter solved this issue for me.

So a trifecta of problems resulted in the very erratic behavior.

Thanks your all your help, guys !

[RamonetB]

Need some help with this one I have a s13. That had the battery hook up to the wrong terminals. Can this be fixed? I have no start and no electronics. If so where do I start?

I'm not actually sure what hooking a battery up wrong would do to the car. I'll have to think on it. But I can tell you this, the very first place I would start is the main fuse. It's located in the engine bay in a relay / fuse box that is just nest to the battery. It's a big black box and should have a lid on it with markings indicating what the fuses and relays inside do. Take the lid off. The main ALT fuse is a 75amp fuse if memory serves. Pull it out and grab a multimeter and make sure it isn't blown (that is has connectivity across it). It's possible this guy has blown. If he has, you'll have no power.

Here's a pic (IGNORE THE YELLOW CIRCLE. What you're after is in the lower left! FL75A ALT)


Might always want to check connectivity on the positive battery terminal. It's a fusable link. Another place things can go bad. To test it, grab the same multimeter and put one lead on the positive battery cable clamp and the other probably down on the starter solenoid. If you have you connectivity, your link is good.

Good luck!

[slightlysideways]

if the key was getting warm it could be a slight short or resistance build up in the ignition switch ive had this happen to me in a previous car also you could have a freind try and start it and you see if their is a click or any heat coming off the relay\fuse box its all fairly easy to check its always worth a shot

[jdenney93]

Im having the same problem with my 1993 240sx but the car wont turnover at all. When i turn the key over it makes one click but doesnt do anything. Ive checked the battery and starter and plugs there all good. Everything electrical works on the car. Ig anyone knows what could cause this problem please let me know. Thanks

[4g6387]

This seems to be a very common problem. My friend has a 90 that does this horribly. It will work fine sometimes, sometimes it leaves you sitting for 10 minutes. Turn the key it clicks a few times and stops or does nothing. Then when it does turn over it is very sluggish until it catches and turns under its own power. And its not just been with one starter, 3 different ones have been on the car and they have all done the same thing. Sending him a text now to check resistance from battery to ground under tray as this seems to be the major contributor for the starter problems. If anyone else has any other fixes, ideas please put in some input. Anyone who has this problem, or knows someone with this problem knows it is overly annoying.

EDIT: My friend with the 90 recently had his starter go out. Same problem as described here. While he had the old one out he decided to sand down the mating surface to see if it would help clear up his starting issues. Its been a week and the car has started the first time every time since.