heel toe preference

[LiU]

state some of yal's preferences when it coems to it, myself i prefer no double clutch (not good at double clutching/heel toe since i don't really practice it) and I usually just skip gears ie 4->2 rather than go 4-3-2, I've been reading alot of interesting stuff on why some ppl insist on going in sequential order, whileothers just skip, let's hear em.

[Axel Grungy]

our cars have synchros, thats why we dont need to double clutch.

[MinisterofDOOM]

My Max is auto. Heel and toe would hurt.

My ford's pedal setup is so screwy you couldn't heel and toe if your life depended on it. Double clutching is unnecessary, it's got synchros. I only have to double into reverse from moving forward, or vice-versa, which makes sense.

As for skipping gears...with under 90 hp to the ground, that's not really possible.

[BuudWeizErr]

i prefer to granny shift.

[Mr1der]

I've never met anyone that intentionally skips gears...

oh oh wait...you mean on the downshift...duh...

I tend to run through them because it makes it a bit easier for an accurate and precise shift, probably won't save you anytime anyway...

as for the heel toe....I can't even do it due to the pedal placement and my bigass feet...the accel is way to deep compared to the brake on my car.

[MaineExport]

Oh my.... where to even begin.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO reaon to double clutch AT ALL unless you are driving a tractor. If YOU want to put twice the use on your clutch... have fun. Too much FnF.

As far as the heel-toe stuff... pretty much pointless, but at least this concept is founded in reality. It certainly has no use in drag racing, but in auto-x and other real racing it might have a place.

As far as skipping gears on the way down.... it only makes sense. It's much faster to go from 4 to 2 (instead of 4-3-2) if 2 is where you need to be in order to launch on the other side of the turn.

[Bubba1]

Doubleclutching a Nissan is a waste of time because the synchros do it for you. But heel-toe downshifting is helpful at the track. Pedal placement in the 240sx and 350z are almost perfect for average sized feet. I use the right side of the brake pedal with the ball of my foot,and roll sideways onto the throttle with the outeredge edge of my shoe for heel-toe. Everyone has their own preference. You do what's comfortable for you

As far as skipping gears, it's absolutely not a problem to skip gears as long as you keep it in the operating range for that gear you're shifting into. There's no law that says you must go sequentially.

[crzycav86]

I only have to double into reverse from moving forward, or vice-versa, which makes sense.

It's not possible to double clutch into reverse when you're moving forward. You can only double into reverse when going backward, and vice versa. Just wanted to point that out.

Anyway.. double clutching is cool yo. I always tend to rev match every down-shift, just so I can feel like uber-race car driver.

[LiU]

I think you guys are misunderstanding what I wrote, I'm not trying to turn it into a double cluthing vs. non duoble cluthing argument, I myself don't double clutch, I think it's unnecessary. I'm interested in whether on heel toe downshift if you guys go through all the gears or skip gears... I've read interesting arguments from both perspectives, just wondering what yal's preferences are.

[crzycav86]

I go through all the gears, because that's how I learned. I guess it's just out of habit...

[Bubba1]

I think you guys are misunderstanding what I wrote, I'm not trying to turn it into a double cluthing vs. non duoble cluthing argument, I myself don't double clutch, I think it's unnecessary. I'm interested in whether on heel toe downshift if you guys go through all the gears or skip gears... I've read interesting arguments from both perspectives, just wondering what yal's preferences are.

The advantage of sequentially shift vs skipping gears is dependant on combination of many factors. There is no text book right or wrong answer. There are situations where it is better to shift sequentially, and there are situations where it's more advantageous to skip gears. You can make a strong argument for either by tailoring the situation to suit the method's advantage.

But whether you heel/toe or brake/downsift shift separately is irrelevant to the decision of shifting gears sequentially or non-sequentially.

To answer your question, I do both. Depends on the situation.

[LiU]

good reply, that's what I've heard, FYI I usually skip gears in dialy driving and when I heel toe downshift. Can you name some situations?

[Nismo_Freak]

I prefer to at least move the shifter through the gears when I upshift 2 gears. That way I don't put it in 5th or something when I want 3rd. I find thats more of an issue on short shifters though.

Heel/toe down shifting makes for a faster time because you do two things at once. It also has a side benefit of being more smooth generally if done correctly.

Why don't you throw in clutchless or partial clutch-in shifting

[andrave]

I do as they instruct at racing schools:one gear at a time, heel toeing the downshifts. As do most professional racers (or successful club/weekend racers).

double clutching is retarded and completely unnecessary. If you don't have synchroes then you probably have a dog box and then you don't need to clutch at all.

[ralphdig]

I shift clutch-less except in downtown

[PoorManQ45]

Becareful when skipping gears while downshifting. That's a pretty good way to over-rev and grenade the engine.

But you probably have enough sence to know when you can and can't skip a gear while downshifting.

[PoorManQ45]

double-clutching was neceassary in older cars.

[skydragoness]

Geez, it wasn't about double-clutching already. Get over it.

Me, I think i did a perfect heel-toe ONCE, and i haven't tried praticing since then it was difficult to try with the stock pedals. Now i have some aftermarket razo pedals that place the brake pedal and gas pedal pretty close to each other (almost too close, i've contemplated on moving the razo's pedal plate a little to the left, haven't done it yet though).

I do however, rev-match everytime i downshift. It's makes downshifting much much gentler on your drivetrain. My clutch is slowly losing its grab so it's not becoming as effective anymore. I clench my teeth whenever i ride in my bf's friend's car. He never does it. Ouch.

[slow s13]

what do you guys do..say coming up to a red light where you know your guna be stopped for a few seconds? From whatever gear I'm in I just put it in neutral stop, light goes green go to 1st and go. When your slowing down to a casual stop I don't see any need to go down through the gears and if you ask me thats just added wear on the synchros for no reason.

[madbouncy]

I double clutch, but it's just because of habit. I learned it because it pissed off my friend that I could do it and he couldn't. That and I always downshift sequentially. Don't alway's upshift that way though, sometimes I'll accelerate in 2nd and just go into 4th because I don't need to accelerate anymore. I usually shift pretty low though, so going from 2nd to 4th would put me damn near 1000. But I always toe-heel, double clutch while coming to a stop, at about 1500 rpms in 2nd I pull it out into nuetral. Yeah, I'm a retard, I know this, I suck at driving, but I have a problem, other people will skip using the clutch because it's easier, well I'm twitchy as hell, I hate driving an automatic because I don't get to do anything, so double clutching keeps my legs from constantly shaking, lke they are now.

[PoorManQ45]

When coming up to a stop light/sign, I usually push in the clutch pedal, and then use the brakes to slow down. As I'm rolling to a stop, I just put the transmission in 1st gear and leave the clutch pedel pressed. When the light turns green, I just let the clutch out and go.

Sometimes I will start in second gear, but that is usually when it's slippery out or something like that.

[chickentendah]

I heel-n-toe downshift sequentially.

Why? Only because i've driven my car for quite some time now, and I now know precisely where my RPM "sweet spot" is for silky smooth downshifting/upshifting. I don't see why you couldn't skip a gear e.g. 5-->3....it does seem like you would have to do some practicing in order to figure out the appropriate amount of throttle in given conditions

[nismofly]

When coming up to a stop light/sign, I usually push in the clutch pedal, and then use the brakes to slow down. As I'm rolling to a stop, I just put the transmission in 1st gear and leave the clutch pedel pressed. When the light turns green, I just let the clutch out and go.

thats murder on your clutch

[phuphyter]

when i do heel-toe and skip gears, i blip the throttle for each gear i skip. that tends to land me at the correct engine speed.

[MaineExport]

thats murder on your clutch

AND it wears the brakes quicker. Never coast to a stop.... you are always much better off shifting down and taking advantage of engine braking. It is NOT going to abuse the synchros or clutch ANY appreciable amount.

[Bubba1]

good reply, that's what I've heard, FYI I usually skip gears in dialy driving and when I heel toe downshift. Can you name some situations?

Hmmmm. examples when it may be better to skip gears during a down shift. Okay

Street driving:: Short steep uphill braking zone approaching a tight turn.Racing situation: suddenly shortening your braking zone when someone cuts you off in a braking zone.

Andrave is correct. At racing schools, which teach technique, smoothness, and one specific line around a clear racetrack, Sequential downshifting is what's taught. And those little formula cars normally use non-synchronized trannies. So you will learn double clutching and heel/toe. Alternate racing lines, trail-braking, skipping shifts, drafting, competitve traffic, etc. come later, and take a little practice.

Obviously downshifting down 2 gears instead of one in a non-synchro race car is a little tougher as the rev match point is considerably higher. And if you miss that rev match while downshifting a non-synchro car, you won't get it into gear, and that's not a good thing. I can tell you from personal experience that at 100 mph braking hard for a turn and blowing even a single gear downshift, is not fun. Well, maybe a little fun if you don't hit anything (chuckle).

But downshifting a synchronized car 2 gears is certainly less of issue, just makes the synchros work harder. And matching the revs isn't as critical as the snchros will get it into that lower gear no matter what you do with the gas pedal. The main benefit of heel/toe in a street situation is to make the downshift less abrupt, (smoother) which will upset your chassis less as you enter a turn and make it a smoother ride for your passengers (assuming you do it correctly).

[Mr1der]

I need to go to one of those schools...

and a defensive driving...well, more like VIP proctection style stuff...I wanna j-turn a limo...

[Bubba1]

BSR, Inc. (Based at Summit Point Raceway)trains cops, limo drivers, Secret Service, CIA, FBI, etc. in hi pursuit, and escape driving. I got to spend a morning with them at a clinic. One of the most sobering things one of those instructors told me was that going fast around a race track becomes much more interesting when the other drivers are trying to kill you instead of passing you. Wow.

[PoorManQ45]

AND it wears the brakes quicker. Never coast to a stop.... you are always much better off shifting down and taking advantage of engine braking. It is NOT going to abuse the synchros or clutch ANY appreciable amount.

you waste gas that way though .

And there is nothing wrong with partially coasting to a stop. I still use the brakes of course, but not too much.

[Mr1der]

BSR, Inc. (Based at Summit Point Raceway)trains cops, limo drivers, Secret Service, CIA, FBI, etc. in hi pursuit, and escape driving. I got to spend a morning with them at a clinic. One of the most sobering things one of those instructors told me was that going fast around a race track becomes much more interesting when the other drivers are trying to kill you instead of passing you. Wow.

haha so true...perhaps NASCAR needs a new point scoring system