Health care or insurance reform?

[smockers83]

In a story on CNBC, after this morning's Senate vote, Obama hailed it, saying they can now deliver on health insurance reform. Since when did this whole debacle become insurance reform and not system-wide reform?

I think now the true intensions have been revealed. It was never meant to be health care reform, but just simply insurance reform, aka government take over. Last night I heard the government plan is to create a nation-wide "exchange" for insurance. The best way to have done that was to get rid if the stayes' powers to regulate insurance, thus eliminating state lines that discourage the market forces present in nearly every other market, interstate commerce, which by the way the federal government regulates.

[AZhitman]

Too bad the rest of the American public isn't as smart as you, smocky.

I've been saying it for a while - This whole thing was a sham, and mark my words, history will NOT be kind to this decision.

DISCLAIMER: Even though I (personally) stand to potentially benefit from it, I STILL oppose it. That's gotta be worth SOMETHING.

[smockers83]

And Gregg, I've always agreed with you on this subject and I think the opposite may be true. The way I've been looking at this is that they were working on system-wide reform in order to affect change in the insurance market via cost reductions along with the proposed public option and insurance requirements.

But now with the change in vocabulary to describe this I think reveals the true intentions publicly, whether we notice it or not.

I will always stick to my argument that not changing the cost structure of the system will lead to the program going bankrupt just like Medicare. That's how you truly get those tens of millions without coverage covered without costing the nation billions or trillions of dollars.

[AZhitman]

Interesting cmomentary on Reid and the back-door dealings that went into ramming this thing down our throats...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINIO....html

Gotta love the fact that Obama promised to end earmarks and cut the pork.

'Sup with dat, Prez?

[themadscientist]

As I watched the vote with my wife I would counter Reid's commentary with facts. She asked "how can he say that then?" I smiled and said "he's lying dear." She got angry and said "why are they saying yes to lies?" as the votes were counted. The Japanese citizen has a good question, I had no logical answer for her.

[audtatious]

If it didn't pass it would be the GOP's fault for not getting in line behind Reid/Obama....Just ask Sen Max Baucus during his drunken speech.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...edded

Give that man another beer!!!!!

[smockers83]

Not to mention the whole Nebraska debacle.

[AZhitman]

...and yet this is the type of shenanigans that the Left supports.

...aaaand, they'll come in here, spewing some emotional drivel about how I hate poor people, or I hate Black people, or I want the POTUS to fail so I'll be right, or I'm privileged, or I'm misinformed...

Blah, blah, blah and BLAH.

Wrong. Plain and simple. Wrong.

READ the facts, Lefties - THIS was a crap bill, drafted by criminals and socialists, and won't achieve a damn thing except for more debt and more government control over private citizens.

...but you go on, keep fawning over your pathetic weakling flip-flopping President...

[smockers83]

When I heard about Nebraska, I was outraged. At that point, it tipped the scales that if there were a march somewhere against the reform, that I would join in.

I am not paying for a Cornhusker's Medicare for the rest of my life.

[AZhitman]

I am not paying for a Cornhusker's Medicare for the rest of my life.

Yes, you are. And you'll LIKE it. Now, kiss the ring.

[Jesda]

"Senator 60" is now polling at 30% for reelection in 2012.

[audtatious]

He must have gone up. Was in the 20's a few days ago.

[audtatious]

Looks like the Mayo Clinic in AZ is going to stop taking Medicare now:

http://www.businessweek.com/ne....html

“Many physicians have said, ‘I simply cannot afford to keep taking care of Medicare patients,’” said Heim, a family doctor who practices in Laurinburg, North Carolina. “If you truly know your business costs and you are losing money, it doesn’t make sense to do more of it.”

What's next on the Gov's agenda, mandate doctors pay out of pocket to treat the poor?

[smockers83]

If this catches on, it'll fix Medicare's cash flow problems real easy. Then the program gets disbanded and the citizens of the US will rejoice. It could be a happy new year after all. This could have much broader implications beyond Medicare, such as the refusal of those covered under the proposed "overhaul".

[AZhitman]

In a democracy, the majority rules.

Here's your polls, Lefties - The majority of Americans oppose the Prez's healthcare reform bills:

http://www.realclearpolitics.c....html

Is it time to storm the gates yet? I'm getting antsy.

[WDRacing]

Lotta people unemployed. That means lots of people that are pissed off and don't have much to do with their time. Lots of angry people that aren't missing out on work to stand in front of the White House or any respective Gov building. I just want to scream "Enough F'n Lies" at the top of my lungs until I lose my damn voice.

What we need is a really good Independent speaker to rally everyone together. I don't want to hear a damn thing the GOP has to say. We need a brand new person to stand up and lead. Without a leader, nothing happens...we will all just sit and talk. We need leaders like the men that lead our country into war with England. Because this is every bit as important. Our Gov is out of control and we no longer have true representation. We have plenty of the taxation though and that only reminds me of one damn thing.

WD

[smockers83]

WTF, I think your link is broken Brian.

I'm getting kinda antsy, too. If there's going to be something going on, I would have no problem joining it at the moment.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Old folks, was it ever this bad before?

Seriously. Is this just a case of "it's always better in the past"? Or are we well and truly teetering on the brink of a disaster?

[WDRacing]

Old folks, was it ever this bad before?

Seriously. Is this just a case of "it's always better in the past"? Or are we well and truly teetering on the brink of a disaster?

Greg, Matt...thoughts?

[audtatious]

Me thinks we are all screwed as anyone with decent employer-provided health care plans are going to be penalized an additional 40% of the cost via the IRS. It really does not take much to be in a "cadillac health care plan". Regardless, I believe the way it's written the $ figures that they use for determining those premium plans will continue to drop until it is simply way more expensive for the common Joe to stay out of the non-Govt plan. They are setting their direction for taking over all HC.

Of course, the top 1% can pay out of pocket for most stuff so they won't be penalized that much......and Congress gets to keep their plan with no penalties.

[AZhitman]

Old folks, was it ever this bad before?

Seriously. Is this just a case of "it's always better in the past"? Or are we well and truly teetering on the brink of a disaster?

No, I think it is indeed worse than ever... and I HATE when people my age and older say "the good old days", but it may well be the case.

Honestly, the "disaster" is not a brink-type precipice... It's a slippery slope, and it's happened already, in the people of our nation.

The sense of entitlement that must exist for people to even THINK that someone else should pay for THEIR medical care, is simply astounding. SOME even feel they shouldn't have to pay for ANY of it (those are the ones I'd like to see drowned in a 5-gallon bucket of mop water...).

Yeah, it's bad. And I fear we may not be able to pull back... this snowball is rolling downhill, and the morons pushing for this legislation THINK they can steer it.

[smockers83]

Yeah, it's bad. And I fear we may not be able to pull back... this snowball is rolling downhill, and the morons pushing for this legislation THINK they can steer it.

Ever see the Mythbusters where they try to roll the giant Lego ball down the hill? Yeah, that's what this is like and it'll fall apart before it even gets to the bottom. That could very well be our country, that giant Lego ball. The system as proposed is unsustainable.

All of these frickin' dumb bastards who think their entitled to everything are jeopardizing my future, and my future childrens' futures. I cannot stand for it, which is why I'm getting antsy.

I used to work at a campus gym in college and it was unbelievable at all the students who thought they were entitled to be at the gym, especially the out-of-state students since they pay more tuition. You know what I did with everyone of them? Threw em out. Can we do that here, throw em out to Canada or Britain?

[srellim234]

Can't throw 'em out, but the door is always open for the industrious money suppliers and the overtaxed to protect their own money and leave.

[audtatious]

Corporations are doing just that, they are leaving.

[AZhitman]

...and taking the jobs with them.

I think even Obama, as pompous and arrogant as he is, is starting to "come around" to the realization that we can NOT "stimulus" our way out of this.

Cut corporate taxes. Cut personal income taxes. Allow more deductions for small businesses. Develop incentives for expansion, hiring, research and development.

And DO NOT give me this "we don't have the money" bullcrap that the libby bums keep spouting.

How much was TARP? How much was the stimulus? How much was C4C?

I'm losing my patience with the idiocy of anyone who can't see that the Government is NOT your mommy and daddy.

CUT the umbilical cord. If someone starves, so be it. They're starving anyway. I'm sick of being stolen from.

[WDRacing]

Rewards for the people that get off whatever form of assistance they are on. Rebuild the country by empowering the people. Don't reward bad decisions, reward the people that make the right ones.

Educate the people.

Obama is all about the media and expanding broadband communications. That's great...but it ain't worth piss unless it's used for something worth while. Like spreading information that is actually needed. I don't wanna see propaganda and politically correct BS. How about actually helping the people. Put your money where your mouth is mother f***er. You said you were gonna bring change, all I see is some SOB taking money from the people who have it and pissing it away.

I stand by something I said right after they started the stimulus scam. If you had given every American over the age of 18 that paid taxes the previous year an even share of the stimulus, every one that fit those requirements would have received a check for over $60,000. Now you tell me how that wouldn't have been better then giving it to the banks and big business? The housing crisis would have been ended in one month. The recession would have been ended within days of the Americans receiving the cash because they each would have spent 4-5 thousand in the first week, because that's what we do.

I'm a 35 year old with very little college and I solved the entire crisis sitting in my F'n PJ's.

The entire stimulus and everything the Obama admin has done has been a lie from the jump. Look at the BS with Geithner and AIG. Obama has criminals on his friggin staff...ON STAFF!!!!!!

We're so F'd it's not even funny.

You know what's funny, Hash ain't said crap as of late. I hope you're glad you supported this douche bag admin bro.

[audtatious]

"Big Labor carved out a tax exemption for union members' health plans on Thursday, paving the way for passage of health care reform. Call it what it is: a bribe to cronies in an increasingly corrupt overhaul."

http://www.investors.com/NewsA...18190

Seems Unions get a pass now......Never saw that coming

[smockers83]

f*** THAT s***!

Why should the f***ing unions get special privileges over every other American? Any politician in their right f***ing mind would not vote for that, even if they come from the Midwest with all of its manufacturing. Fact of the matter is, if they do come heavily unionized districts, they are many more that are non-union in the very same district.

This is the absolute tipping point for me.

f*** unions. They're wasteful piles of s*** that were useful 60 years ago. Get rid of those like Gettlefinger and Hoffa.

[smockers83]

This makes me mad enough to have to post about it twice.

First of all, the "Cadillac" plans cover a lot more stuff than the cheap plans do that the government is going to try and force us into. The "Cadillac" plans don't contribute to higher health care costs, they just cover more. You get what you pay for. Also, I'm not exactly sure on what defines a plan as a "Cadillac" plan other than it "costs" a lot (and I use "cost" for a reason because the plan looks like it may cost a lot because people pay more for it, but the true cost of the plan may not be expensive), but the government's plan to force insurance companies to drop the denial of coverage due to pre-existing conditions, those plans that don't do that, those cost a boat load and could be considered the Ferrari plans.

Second, the government is going to tax people to force them into cheap dog s*** coverage because they think high-cost plans contribute to the problem? Where's the analysis, where's the proof? It isn't there, it's bulls***. They're using the shotgun approach to serve an agenda, not doing what is best for the country.

Third, thanks to all of those who voted these people into office and in effect, this load of crap. Nancy Pelosi compared the healthcare/insurance/f'ed in the a overhaul to the passing of Medicare and Social Security. What the hell have we been talking about for the past 5 years with those two programs? The possibility of bankruptcy and a national financial crisis. If our government runs into those financial crises, it will be bigger than any other financial crisis known to man.

[audtatious]

They are implementing "insurance reform" per Obama so under the Dems big pharma and big insurance are gonna make a boat load of money. If this fully passes then I expect insurance profits to go WAY up. Why else would insurance and pharma throw their support to the Dems running in elections this year if they were not getting something from the deal?

Duh.....