Headlight Relay Locations

[cmat1120]

Hello, I know the headlight issues have been beaten to death and I've searched through a lot of threads already, but I can't find anything on the relay locations. I'm trying to diagnose my headlight issue(they go up, but don't go down), but I don't know which relay is retractor relay 1,2,3...etc. If someone could describe whcih is which or has a picture I'd appreciate it. Also I know the stalk is a possible issue, but I went in and wire brushed the contacts, however it is an old stalk and I'm not sure thats enough. Has anyone had any experience where they cleaned the connectors for the stalk, but still had to replace it.

The one thing I do know is that when pins 3 and 5 on the relay labeled H/L Retract the headlights do go down, but pins 1 and 2 do not have voltage going across them when the headlight stalk is in the off position. So I don't even know if any relays are left to be the culprit if thats the case or is there? If it isn't too expensive I'm fine with just replacing the stalk to test it and the headlight timer too, but I don't really want to waste my money if I don't have too or spend a huge amount just to randomly test them

[Rogue One]

Have you looked through the FSM? http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/nissan ... nuals.html

[cmat1120]

I have, but i couldn't find anything as to which relay is what, although I think I've sorta figured it out by randomly pulling ones out and seeing what happens. So if they go up on their own and go down when that jumper is made and I don't get voltage across the coil pins of that relay that means its either the stalk or the headlight timer correct? Should I just order a stalk, try it and if it doesn't work then the timer? Or is there anything else that could be the issue?

[Hijacker]

The relay in the passenger side relay box is controlled via the pop up switch. Retract relay 3 is probably the relay giving you hassles, which is going to be H/L Ret Down. The other two are the grounding relays for the headlamps so they can cut power to the headlamps when the motors are transitioning positions.

[cmat1120]

Thats the relay I was talking about(I guess I forgot to add "down". The pins that actually power the relay arent getting power which means that although the relay may also be bad, the problem must be before it as well. As far as I know the only possibilities left are the headlight timer and column stalk. I'm just wondering if anyone can confirm what I'm saying or tell me otherwise before I go and start buying and trying those two items.

[cmat1120]

So update: assuming the black dot on the diagram means the connector, I tested that connector by jumping connections and this is what I got:

25-26 nothing
25-27 nothing
25-28 headlights go up
26- 27 nothing
26-28 nothing
27-28 headlights go up.

If i read the fsm correctly then when 27 and 28 are connected shouldn't the headlights go down? Does this eliminate the stalk as the issue? How else can I test stuff?

[Hijacker]

Pins 25 and 27 are source voltage lines for the up/down circuits. 25 should complete through 26 and 27 completes through 28.

You've got a short somewhere. Retract relay 4 is basically a switch that powers the up cycle of the motors. So when its solenoid is supplied current, it switches constant current from the down side to the up side. Normal operation would be that retract relay 4 under un-powered conditions would switch current to retract relay 3. When the switch powers relay 3, it sends that current to the motors' down cycle. HOWEVER, a short in the harness across the two lines would power retract relay 4 every time, which would divert current to the up cycle only.

Typical places for shorts are the wheel wells. A lot of times, lowered cars rub the harness on the tire or the pinch weld. I would start chasing something like that.

[cmat1120]

Alright well I found out that the pink and black wire on retract relay 3 was not grounding which is either do to a short as Hijacker said or a bad timer. I chose to simply ground that wire and get a new column switch and my headlights sort of work now. Actually I kind of like the way they work now. Using the column switch they work perfectly. Now if i press the button to lock them up they start doing this crazy wave thing lol. Oh well I'd never use that button anyways.

[Hijacker]

I don't think it's your timer. You said that you were getting issues with the pins at the stalk being jumped. The timer would have nothing to do with relay 4 activating. The timer just acts as a ground for relay 3, but the switch itself is what activates relay 4. The only way you'd be getting an up cycle is if there was short between the wires physically in the harness. The circuit from the timer is protected by a bunch of diodes to keep back chatter from going up the lines.

[cmat1120]

No the ONLY part that wasn't working was getting that ground at relay 3. Every other part worked perfectly including relay 4. As soon as I gave it that ground it worked fine which means that either there is a disconnect(perfectly possible with this hacked up car) or the timer just isn't grounding that wire. I'm assuming that by grounding that wire I did mess with the way the timer acts a little bit since it usually grounds and ungrounds that wire so that is probably the cause of the weird thing when I press the headlight lock button.

[Hijacker]

When you say that jumping a live wire to pin 28 causes the motors to go up, that makes me think there's a short in the system. It's possible the switching transistor inside the timer is working improperly, or there's a burnt trace in there. More than likely, if the car's been hacked on, the ground wire for the solenoid on retract 3 is cut up somewhere. Simply grounding it will drain your battery over time as the switch gets its power from a constant source, not an ignition switched source. The whole point of the timer assembly is that it provides a temporary ground for that relay solenoid so the battery doesn't have extra parasitic loss during downtime.

[cmat1120]

wow can't believe I missed that haha. Ya thats definitely draining my battery I'm going to go disconnect relay 3 until i figure this out and connect things correctly. Alright well basically ALL I need to do is get the headlight timer to ground that ppink and black wire. Everything else works fine Where should I go from here? I know this shouldn't be that hard to search for, but I honestly can't figure out where the headlight timer is or what it looks like. Once I find that I think ill test for continuity from the timer to the relay and if that checks out then I'll check the timer itself. So if someone could just help me figure out where it is and what it looks like I'd appreciate it.

[Hijacker]

Headlamp timer is behind the driver's kick panel. It's a black box unit that says Timer Assembly.

You can do a visual inspection of it by taking the cover off. I've seen them burn traces in the past, but rarely have I seen the components inside fail. An easy cont test for this one would be a test light with the switch in off. If you light up, your harness is good. I would also make sure that Pin 9 at the timer (orange wire) isn't energizing as well with the switch in off. The only reason I bring that up is I'm still hung up on the off position of the switch activating the up cycle and ensuring that circuit has nothing flowing through it with the switch in off will shut me up about it.

[cmat1120]

Don't worry about that issue of the headlights going up either way. What was happening is I had one end of the jumper in the pin that is for the up cycle and i was putting the other end into one 12v pin then the other 12v pin(the skyblue wires). I'm 99% sure the only issue is that the wire isn't getting grounded. If i can't find anything obvious like a discontinuity on the pink/black wire and I can't find a cheap headlight timer I think I might just substitute an ign controlled wire for the skyblue. I know that will mean that my headlights won't go down if the car is off, but that isn't a big deal for me and honestly if I could I'd bypass most of nissan's dumb 1990's wiring with more modern designs and components.

[cmat1120]

Alright I tested it and there is complete continuity from the headlight timer to the pink/black wire and all of the timer's traces are solid. I guess that means that the headlight timer must not be getting told to ground the pink wire. Does anyone know what tells the timer to ground the pink/black wire?

[Hijacker]

The timer uses a transistor to ground the pink/black wire via a looped signal through the retractor switch while it's in the off position. Looking at the circuit diagram, there's a capacitor that gets to a steady state charge and when the system is flipped to off, it unloads its charge through the retractor switch (to ensure the headlights aren't being held up), and that flips the transistor on.

[rsjoyner]

Hijacker
I am new to this forum and this particular topic is of great interest to me. I am having a similar issue with my sons headlights and would like to start a thread with you