Head rebuilding ?s - suggestions?

[slipnfall]

Hi there, Ok, I know this might seem like a lot to ask at once, but I would appreciate any and all input! I'v been the garage the last couple hours stripping my 'new' KA down to block and head. The only thing that's left on the upper half is the buckets, valves, springs, retainers, and seals.

I flipped the engine over on the stand and three of the buckets slid out by accident. First off, is it necessary to match the buckets with the valves for a rebuild? I'm guessing you would only need to match them if you didn't want to re-shim, correct? If so, can I go ahead and pull them out? I'v never seen anyone pull springs - can I do that without a compressor?

Would it be ok to use the original buckets, springs, and retainers, or should I just buy new OEM? I'v never seen the price of those components, are they expensive? The three that fell out have a rust-colored ring about 1/4" from the top.

Looking in the ports, I see the valves stems/tops have a lot of what looks to be corrosion on them. My dad said as long as they spec' out, he'd just use the originals. Should I heed my old man's suggestions?

Also at what point should I start *upgrading* head components? There are a lot of high HP head components out there and they all seem overkill(and over-priced!) for me. I'm looking to run 15psi abs MAX down the road.

Thanks folks!-Jamie

[slipnfall]

Hi again, Just wanted to note that my dad did show me a way to remove the valves w/out a compressor. Apparently if you hit the retainer hard enough with a deep-well socket, the two-piece 'lock ring'(he called them keep-ins) will pop out. He did it once and the retainer came right loose. However I'v been out banging away at one and have yet to get it out. Must be one of those 'easier said than done' deals... I don't exactly like the idea of whacking at my head like this, so I think I'll just have the machine shop remove them. :-)

Still eager to hear your responses!

[TrunkMonkey]

your dads a smart man, listen to him. if everything is within spec, i'd reuse it all. maybe have your valves lapped.

and quit being a wuss a hit the socket like you got a set .

-demetrius

[andrave]

valvesprings should be replaced tho, no demcj?

[slipnfall]

demcj: lol... Yeah I should probably take his word in more ways than one. I'm not familiar with valve lapping - care to elaborate? If not, thanks, I'll look into it anyways. It's late now, but I will take a nother crack(swing?) at getting those valves out tomorrow.

andrave: Do valve springs loose their compression, or possibly rate of compression, after usage? FYI, this engine has roughly 120k on the clock.

Thanks again for the response.Regards,-Jamie

[andrave]

my engine has 190k and I was advised by several people who have actually done this before that they should probably be replaced, in fact I was advised to find a ka24de altima in a yard with less than 100k and get the springs for cheap.

[TrunkMonkey]

valvesprings should be replaced tho, no demcj?

not if they're still within spec. i know some people preach that they need to be replaced, but i've reused springs on several engines and have never had a problem. keep in mind, just because an engine has less mileage doesn't mean it's in better shape. i'd much rather reuse parts from an engine that i know it's history than from one i know nothing about.

it all boils down to having a peace of mind. for example, i know that there's nothing wrong with reusing pistons, but i swear i'd have sleepless nights if i had to. rebuilding an engine with used pistons is a big no no to me.

-demetrius

[slipnfall]

andrave: Did you have to use the Altima retainers also? Did you keep you stock retainers, or is that standard issue to be replaced also?

Thanks!-Jamie

PS:For those that are following along, I read up on valve lapping. Basically in laymens terms, it's 'matching' the head valve seat to the valve surface. You throw some gritty compond on the surface/seat, insert the valve, then spin the valve back and forth. The grit grinds away any irregularities(minor). When you remove the valve you can tell if the seat is out-of-round at all. Wipe and repeat for the other valves.

PostCount++

[TrunkMonkey]

I'm not familiar with valve lapping - care to elaborate?

for anyone else who wants to know.

valve lapping.

a few things i do different from the page above...

1. disassemble everything. the only thing you need is the cylinder head and the valves.

2. when you inspect the valve and the valve seat, look for spots instead of a gray line. keep grinding until all the spots are gone, then grind with the fine compound.

3. forget the wd40 method. i find it to be a pita. when you have all the valves done, reassemble one side (exhaust or intake) and lay the cylinder head with the assembled side up. fill the ports with either gasoline or carbeurator cleaner. if your valves aren't seated completely, the gasoline or carb cleaner will make it's way through.

-demetrius

[TrueSlide]

Ahh thats very cool info dem, thanks. I have a head i rebuilt, put on my car, it didnt work, I thought I rebent the valves, so i took the head off and used water :-/ and it leaked out of 3 valves, but now hopefully thye just need to be relapped

[WDRacing]

Good idea with the gas/carb cleaner D.

[andrave]

I don't know about the retainers, devious told me the heads are substantially similar so I'd guess they would work if you wanted them to.

[slipnfall]

Thanks for the info on the lapping. The longer I look at the burn / wear patterns on the valves, piston tops, walls, etc, the more I lean towards re-using the valve components... This engine sat for a while, presumably under a tarp, so I over-reacted when I seen corrosion. Anyways, all around the engine seems to have been grannied.

There is only one visible (abnormal?) wear indication that I see. It is on the front journal(?) where the gear-end of the intake cam rides. There's a pit out of the surface, offset from center about 1/2". Roughly the size of a 3 pin heads. There's also an associated ring around the cam itself. Is the pit a problem? I would imagine the cam could be fixed easily, but the pit? Also FWIW, the upper tensioner had larger chunks worn out of it.

I do have another(in car) engine, which threw a rod. Are the valve components at risk when something like this happens? Honestly havn't had the time to take a look it yet.

.o0O( breath ) O0o.

-Jamie