head gasket question

[D3stro]

I'm now at the time to change my head gasket on my CA18. I've already check around the web for company which made head gasket for the CA such as Tomei, Greddy, HKS, Felpro, Cometic. I've too search around this forum for infos and did read this thread talking about potential problems about Cometic MLS head gasket for the CA.Are they that bad? The price seems kinda of good for a multi-layer. My question is does they worth it? I'm better to spend more for maybe an Greddy or Tomei? I'm still thinking about change it, change the engine for an healty CA18 and rebuilt that one strong or go.....SR20...

[meminto]

There is nothing wrong with the cometic MLS head gasket, its more about ignorance of proper installation...

The biggest issue is people will use these gaskets without machining the block or head surface to suit, then tell everyone how useless they are when they don't seal properly...

[Two-Fortee]

+1 to what was said above. I have one for sale, brand new, will give to to you very cheap since I dont need it.

[email protected] if you wanna chat.

[boost_boy]

There is nothing wrong with the cometic MLS head gasket, its more about ignorance of proper installation...

The biggest issue is people will use these gaskets without machining the block or head surface to suit, then tell everyone how useless they are when they don't seal properly...

He's right! It's a metal gasket and it does very little conforming to your block's deck or head's milling imperfections. I've re-used my cometic gasket a few times because my block's deck was machined right the first. You can use composite gasket and it'll be forgiving.

Dee

[D3stro]

After some research, I've made my choice why I will not take a Cometic headgasket. Here's a little text about different headkgasket type such as bead(Cometic), grommet(ApexI,Power Enterprise) and stopper type(HKS,Greddy,Tomei).

The bead type uses an indention in the top and bottom layers to seal all ports on the gasket. The other types use the bead just to seal water and oil. The stopper type has four layers where you have a thick and thin inner layers. The thin one is formed around the thick one inside the bore of the gasket. This forms a small step around the cylinder head and puts more of the clamping force around the cylinder than the oil/water ports. The only issue with this type is that the upper and bottom layers still see the combustion chamber. Then the grommet type is just a three layer gasket where it has a formed piece that goes just around the bore and the top and bottom layers stop short of the bore. This creates a good "pinch" around the cylinder

Hope this help other members to make correct choices.

[sjbsuperman1425]

so it'll be ok to use a stock headgasket withouth machining/decking?

[Two-Fortee]

^ Get your head machined anyway. They warp over time. very slightly ofcoarse.

[DALAZ_68]

seeing this, and me plannin to use a felpro...would i just need to deck the head, clean the block and itll be good right?

[sjbsuperman1425]

i used a felpro and just cleaned the block and had the head resurfaced and its holding up.

[DALAZ_68]

i used a felpro and just cleaned the block and had the head resurfaced and its holding up.

so there IS a difference between resurfacing and decking?

[sjbsuperman1425]

resurfacing, to me, is just cleaning the mating surfaces, while decking is taking the block or head and taking material off so that it is "flat" once again.

[DALAZ_68]

resurfacing, to me, is just cleaning the mating surfaces, while decking is taking the block or head and taking material off so that it is "flat" once again.

so is it hard to tell if a head needs decking?

and if so...would the felpro still be find to use?


now im also debating on headstuds...

[sjbsuperman1425]

i got ARP Studs. they are reuseable and not that expensive so I thought I mind as well get them now. I got mine from Summit Racing because the part number was not available at FRSport or other sites of that nature.

To see if the head needs decking, you need a straight edge and a feeler gauge. Check the FSM for the specs are procedure as it's explained in there. Its not really that difficult, but you just have to make sure your straight edge is in fact..straight! haha

[DALAZ_68]

So pretty much don't think about it, change the head studs...

[sjbsuperman1425]

I would. I had a friend reuse the stock head bolts on his RB and it leaked like hell. It's just good practice to NOT reuse them i guess.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-202-4302/ these are the ones that I bought. FRSport has the 202-4702 which I think are the European CA head studs. The link in the stickies says which ones to use, but I'm pretty sure its the 4302 for US model CA18's.

[DALAZ_68]

I would. I had a friend reuse the stock head bolts on his RB and it leaked like hell. It's just good practice to NOT reuse them i guess.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-202-4302/ these are the ones that I bought. FRSport has the 202-4702 which I think are the European CA head studs. The link in the stickies says which ones to use, but I'm pretty sure its the 4302 for US model CA18's.

yeah i figured...

everything is out and easily accessible...might aswell pay now...then pay a sh*t done later...

ive learned the hardway...

[float_6969]

MY engine builder told me this about HG's.

"I use HG's like a fuse. I purposely make them the weakest link in the system. It's a heck of a lot easier to pop the heads off (He's a V8 guy) and throw some new gaskets on it, than it is to replace pistons and blocks because the HG held and so something else gave up instead."

Also, I have never heard of anybody blowing out a Felpro due to HP. IIRC, Boost Boy had one of his motors up to around 500HP and never had a failure.

The Felpro is also much more forgiving in regards to surface finish.

[boost_boy]

Stock bolts are good for two rounds and then trash them. Felpro gaskets are more than what most of you need, but some of you will find a way to blow them. The felpro unit have withstood better than 500whp in my cars, but I do know that they are over their limits, so I don't constantly test them. I now use cometics on everything and that's only because I like the fact that I can re-use them over and over and over again.

[DALAZ_68]

MY engine builder told me this about HG's.

"I use HG's like a fuse. I purposely make them the weakest link in the system. It's a heck of a lot easier to pop the heads off (He's a V8 guy) and throw some new gaskets on it, than it is to replace pistons and blocks because the HG held and so something else gave up instead."

ive heard that everywhere, sadly, i dont know how to do anything...lol

Also, I have never heard of anybody blowing out a Felpro due to HP. IIRC, Boost Boy had one of his motors up to around 500HP and never had a failure.

The Felpro is also much more forgiving in regards to surface finish.

ive read that everywhere and i have confidence in it...but question...if the head does need decking (does it always? or can resurfacing be enough?) but pretty much id have to see how much it needs removed to determine if i could use a felpro or cometic right? and if a cometic (or any other) needs to be used what is the finishing needed?

Stock bolts are good for two rounds and then trash them. Felpro gaskets are more than what most of you need, but some of you will find a way to blow them. The felpro unit have withstood better than 500whp in my cars, but I do know that they are over their limits, so I don't constantly test them. I now use cometics on everything and that's only because I like the fact that I can re-use them over and over and over again.

as far as the bolts go, since i dont know the 100% history of the engine...i figure why risk it, change em...the engine ran cherry since installed minus the cold morning cold starts in which it needed 3 cranks to go...

[float_6969]

There is a procedure for checking the head surface. You basically need a straight edge and some feeler gauges. If it's w/in spec, then you don't need to deck the block. Same goes for the head. From my experience, the block rarely needs decked, and the head usually needs a little taken off to make it flat again.

[DALAZ_68]

There is a procedure for checking the head surface. You basically need a straight edge and some feeler gauges. If it's w/in spec, then you don't need to deck the block. Same goes for the head. From my experience, the block rarely needs decked, and the head usually needs a little taken off to make it flat again.

and what is that spec? if u dont mind me asking?

im assuming that if the head just needs resurfacing...f*** it...ill just have the block and head checked...ill just keep asking questions...i wanna do this write...but with school and work, time to sit and read all this awesome here is horribly limited...

i luv and missed you guys...

[boost_boy]

If your engine didn't completely over-heat and stop running because of said over-heating or your engine always had coolant in and there is no corrosion on the decks' surface, then I would only have the head done. The block will let you get away with crap that an SR20 or any honda engine will not; and this come from someone who has stunted in every aspect try to grenade the CA's block. Let's just say that after 13 years and a few melted pistons back in the late 90s, I've failed .

[DALAZ_68]

If your engine didn't completely over-heat and stop running because of said over-heating or your engine always had coolant in and there is no corrosion on the decks' surface, then I would only have the head done. The block will let you get away with crap that an SR20 or any honda engine will not; and this come from someone who has stunted in every aspect try to grenade the CA's block. Let's just say that after 13 years and a few melted pistons back in the late 90s, I've failed .

as long as ive had it, its had coolant...ill take a look at it and post pics if i can...