Has Infiniti "Cheaped out" on their new interiors?

[driverdriver]

I've spent the last couple of days cross car shopping for a new car for the wife. I'm comparison shopping the new Infiniti G35, Lexus ES300 and Acura 1.7EL (Its a Canada/Japan only model). Sitting in the G35, I was suprised to find that we both felt that the interior of the G35 felt cheap compared to the interior of the new Lexus and the Acura (whats up with the plastic brushed on aluminim door handles and locks-feels like I'm sitting in an economy car!). My wife who works as an interior designer noted that the leather feels nor looks like the quality of leather in my J or in the cheaper Acura EL, ditto for the carpeting. Is it now with Infiniti winning all those JD Power and Auto Journalists awards, and selling cars like never before that they decided to rest on their laurels and maximize profits by cheapening materials hoping no one will notice???

And whats up with Infinti salespeople, they do know that I currently own an Infiniti product and have seen me at the dealership many, many times over the many years yet they don;t give me the time of day, instead choosing to fawn over the "infiniti" newbies.

The way things are going my next vehicle addition is probably going to be a product from the competitors stable.

My rant.

[maxnix]

I wouldn't ignore the G35 as it is a fine car, well built and well engineered. Personally, I think the dash layout is one of the best in the business. The ES 300 is a Camry with an LS interior, because people don't care how well a car performs in that segment. The new Acura TL is a very nicely done car, but to echo C&D, it just needs to be RWD.

If you really want more luxury and convenience, step up to the M45 as there are great deals. Either the M45 or the G35 will run away from the Acura TL or Lexus ES, especially when corners are involved.

[driverdriver]

The wife's top requirements are:

(1.) long term reliability (she tends to drive her cars for a long time-unless they happen to be crap).(2.) Safety(3.) fuel economy-she tends to drive lots(4.) something that isn't to big (that rules out the M and the Q and the Acura TSX, Lexus LS, GS series)(5.) a deep trunk-she tends to carry around a lot of weird sized objects-part of her job(6.) 4 doors(7.) Its really important for her to a have a vehicle thats got a nice looking and feeling interior-she's an interior designer

She's coming from a 2000 VW Golf GLS, which granted for an economy car has got a really nice interior, the quality of materials are top notch even though the made in mexico mechanics suck (what type of automaker has service reps tells you its normal to have high oil consumption and its normal to have your automatic transmission slip?).

The other thing she really wants is long term durability, kind of like my relationship with the my '90 Honda Civic Hatch-a car which I can't seem to part with since all it requires is routine maintenance and runs like day one even though the engine and transmission have over 186000 miles miles on it. All that car has ever required is an alternator, a couple of batteries over its life and an exhaust system, everything else is original! Or like my father-in-laws car which is an '97 Toyota Avalon running close 180000 miles with all its original parts. Other than oil and fluid changes he has had to nothing done to it.

[Rex]

Have you looked at the FX35, I know that doesn't address your interior finish issues, but may give her alot more car/space when she doesn't need the 4 doors??

[Jeff Williams]

I still think the M45 might be the car for her. With incentives, you can get one for nearly the same price. The trunk space might be less, but the overall size of the car isn't much bigger.

My wife is a designer, and she drives the 2000 I30t. The rear seats flip down (lots of room for samples), the interior is O.K. (We liked it much more than the Acura, or Lexus, at the time).

I know the car is doomed, with FWD, and being phased out, but a deal might be made. Fuel mileage is 25 to 32.

She wants to upgrade to the FX45, for work, but get a G35 Coupe, for after hours. She dosen't make that much money, so I think the M45 is the right pick for her. Fuel mileage is around 20 to 25.

As far as the sales people, ther are some dealerships that do act like that. I have one close to home, just like that. I do business 70 miles from the house, at another Infiniti dealership.

If you decide to go Infiniti, definitely do NOT make a deal, until you talk to AZHitman, he is an infiniti salesman, and super nice. He also moderates this board.

[Q451990]

The wife's top requirements are:...(3.) fuel economy-she tends to drive lots

This is one that I wouldn't be as concerned about. Say she drives 25,000 miles per year. That's 962 gallons of gas at 26MPG (say a 3.0L V6), and 1316 at 19MPG (4.5L V8).

So a difference of 354 gallons per year. At 1.50/gallon (I'm not sure about your local prices) that's only about $530/year for a much nicer car. Nothing to sneeze at, but a drop in the bucket compared to the other costs of car ownership.

Heath

[AZhitman]

Also keep in mind that the larger engine will sometimes return BETTER fuel economy.

Why? Because you're not driving around with your foot in the floor to keep up with traffic.

Speaking of cheap, keep in mind that Lexus and Acura are still using Toyota and Honda switchgear - Infiniti is the only one that doesn't raid the corporate parts bin to cut corners.

[maxnix]

I will be a heretic and say get the TSX with 6 speed and the Nav pack.

On the other hand, when I my wife complains about her Q45's mileage, I just remind her it is cheap life insurance. Go manual if you go V6 or I4 for best economy and responsiveness.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

[nuQ]

hitman, i'm sure you're not going to be at infiniti selling forever, so please please please, keep a good relationship with some of the sales staff because a used M45 WILL be my next car!!! I absolutly love that car!!!!! from what i understand, the performance is equal/better than my first gen Q which must be incredible!!! back to the interior quality, i feel that most car companies have cut corners on the materials used. i have family members and friends that have owned or own everything from benz's to toyota's, fords, to bmw's. maybe i'm biased, but my Q is still top-shelf with most, if not all of these other brands. the materials just look and feel like QUALITY!!! as an example, my girlfriend bought a new altima about 6 months ago (the second altima in the family)! obviously, she was way exicted by the purchase and she loves the car, but had to admit (and with a pouty lip!!LOL) that the interior of my 13 year old Q was better looking that her brand new car. although i really like the look, and layout of the altima, you can't help but notice all the "cheapy" looking plastic that is used. granted, the altima is not anywhere in the league of the Q, but after 13 years, this is the trend with most car makers (not all, but most).jeff

[airman]

My wife who works as an interior designer noted that the leather feels nor looks like the quality of leather in my J or in the cheaper Acura EL, ditto for the carpeting. Is it now with Infiniti winning all those JD Power and Auto Journalists awards, and selling cars like never before that they decided to rest on their laurels and maximize profits by cheapening materials hoping no one will notice???

What do you expect from G35? It's just Nissan Skyline. Don't know why they stick it into Infiniti line. This is a way of Jap automakers to sell their conventional cars as so called "luxury" here. Nissan especially cheap on that. Keeps rebadgin Nissan Maxima to Infiniti I30/35. What real quality? Get Q

[VimyJ]

What real quality? Get Q

Or get a J. Oh yeah, they don't make those anymore. Pity.

[Q451990]

This is a way of Jap automakers to sell their conventional cars as so called "luxury" here. Nissan especially cheap on that.

Of course the Q is a Nissan President, Cima, etc. in Japan - they're all really just rebadged JDM Nissans for various price points, we just don't see their cousins on the streets here...

Heath

[VimyJ]

Of course the Q is a Nissan President, Cima, etc. in Japan - they're all really just rebadged JDM Nissans for various price points, we just don't see their cousins on the streets here...

Heath

That's the interesting thing about the J30. It seems that this was the only JDM model that was upscaled for the NA market. The interior and some of the exterior (headlights) were designed in California. Didn't sell a pile of units and then the financial problems of the mid 90s stopped that sort of activity.

[Metroyed]

One good point i want to second was that the G35 isn't really luxory. I mean it's freakin nice, don't get me wrong, but it's a much much sportier car then say a Q or even a Maxima.

[dezm45]

Regarding interiors .. when I was looking for my next car, it was pretty much going to be the Acura TSX .. I really liked the INTERIOR of that car. Other choices were the new TL, which has a really nice interior, the new Maxima - which I absolutely HATED inside, and the G35. When I first went to look at the G35, there was an M45 right next to it in the showroom. I had wondered if both cars were made by Infiniti, because the only thing that the interiors shared was the Analog Clock ! I was really disappointed by the interior of the G35 - it was very cheap looking.

Anyone who has the M45, or the Q45 knows, on the other hand, how luxurious and well put together the interiors are. Out of ALL the cars I considered, the M definitely had the BEST interior.

And, like everyone else is saying - you cannot go wrong on the deal for the M right now -- but you better hurry up, there's not many left !!

just an FYI -- after only seeing ONE other M45 on the road around here since I got mine a few months ago, I saw TWO just yesterday -- a Garnet Fire and a Black ... I guess people are starting to appreciate the deal on these !

[driverdriver]

I personally like the M45, but the wife says it looks to square, kind of like a Japanese Crown Vic/Grand Marquis.

We took an Acura TSX for a long test drive last night, beautiful car, the gauges are beautiful. For a front wheel drive car, neither one of use detected any understeer when pushed.

We plan to drive down to Windsor this weekend and meet up with my dad who works for Daimler Chrysler. We are going to test drive one of the new 300C Magnum's ( I thinks its a 300M as a station wagon with a 400HP hemi). Daimler Chrysler is selling a bunch of them before the regular public gets them only to Chrysler employees and their families at an employee price. I;m sure test driving the 300C Magnum will bring back memories of my very first car, a Dodge Duster with a 340 CI 4BBL Engine, dual hood scoops and a straight pipe as an exhaust. Raw Detroit power.

At this point our goal is test drive as many cars as we are possibly interested in and then make a decision. Will keep everyone posted.

[maxnix]

Comparing a 300C to an M45 should be quite revealing.

I'm not betting on DC, especially 3 years down the road.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

[Q45tech]

Noticed that Nissan spend [966 Million] almost $1,000 per vehicle sold in AD budget for 2003......less than domestics spent. Whose incentives were approaching $5,000 per vehicle sold.

Soon a Ford truck will MSRP at $100,000 with $75,000 in rebates and incentives to buy.

http://www.adage.com/images/random/powerplay03.pdf

Interesting that AT&T Wiresless spent 873 million for a $503 per year revenue stream per sub for its 21,860,000 subs......$44 per sub or 10-20 times that per real not churned add.http://www.wirelessweek.com/ar...t=000

[driverdriver]

"When they and Ford outsource the production to China, things will get better except noone will make enough here to buy the cars."

What really pisses me off is that American and Canadian consumers built these companies into what they are now along with other large companies like the major banks, insurance companies, Walmart, Sears, etc... And these companies reward American and Canadian consumers/workers with what, moving manufacturing, computer, HR and Accounting jobs to developing low wage nations like India, Phillipines, Russia and China. Its a race to the bottom.

[Q45tech]

I deleted this from my edited post as probably too inflamatory.

Short term profits are more important to short term excecutives and stockholders, thank goodness I only have to be around another 20 years [maybe 30]?

In order to raise these countries standard of living the US standards MUST FALL...........we must become more average [poorer] on average..............that's the only way it can work when you have nobody left to expliot. [too harsh a word].

Maybe this is why we are getting cheaper interiors, they are breaking it to us slowly...........any color as long as it is Black worked for early Ford.

[Aus94Q45]

Speaking of Ford . . . a friend dropped by yesterday with his new 2004 F-150 Lariet. I was shocked to find under the hood that the 5.4L PLENUM appears to made of PLASTIC! Yes, I know weight reduction and all that stuff, but how could it last? Many parts under the surface were cheap and flimsy. Looks nice, but I doubt the build quality over the long haul.

[driverdriver]

"Short term profits are more important to short term excecutives and stockholders, thank goodness I only have to be around another 20 years [maybe 30]?"

Unfortunatly by the time politicians realize what is going on and American and Canadian companies realize there are no more consumers, North America will be in a depression.

I don't believe that standards must fall in North America so developing countries can raise their standards, however I do believe in "fair trade" and not "free trade" , which will keep or raise standard of living worldwide. For instance and international minimum wage or salary for different types of work would level the playing field for everyone. Unfortunatly CEO's and politicians don't see it this way.

Over the last year as my wife and our extended family have become aware of "globalization" and "offshore outsourcing" we begun changing our spending habits. We no longer spend money at businesses like Walmart, Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc. We've even changed insurance companies. We consciously try and support organizations that employ and support only Canadian and American workers. Sure it costs a bit more, but hey we are supporting our fello North Americans. Its one of the major factors we are using, while we are shopping for a new car(its hould have been number one on my wifes factor listing, We know that Toyota builds the Lexus ES300 and RX330 In Canada. and Honda builds the EL in Canada and the TL and MDX in the USA.

[maxnix]

I deleted this from my edited post as probably too inflamatory.

It's a shame when the truth is inflammatory.

The English word for "cheaped out" is cheapened, if anyone cares.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

[Rex]

Back to the topic ....

Be careful comparing the interior fit and finish of the G (Infiniti entry level) with the Acura TL (not their entry level). This is not intended to be an excuse, b/c if they are comparably priced/equipped cars, comparisons should be made. Just an observation.

Edit: After Maxnix pointed out my error. It was the TL he referred to in the original post not the TSX.

[VimyJ]

I just saw a show on a business channel where an executive from a cereal company was saying how valuable children are to marketers of products. They are a clean slate of undeveloped habits. I call them the so far unexploited. They are the last untapped consumer resurce for mature markets.

The global economy adherents have two polar opposites that come together to promote free trade. On the one hand, you have business interests who see short term profits to be had by lowering labour costs in manufacturing. On the other hand you have free trade adherents like Clinton, for instance, who saw that the way to achieve global stability is to offer economic expansion to third world countries.Of course, these economic opportuniteis do not just appear out of thin air. They come from job transfers to developing countries from the developed ones.

Mexicans illegally enter the US not for "Mom and apple pie" but for the money. If there are economic advantages for them to stay in Mexico because manufacturing is coming to them, then they'll happily stay in Mexico. Ironically, now evenMexico is losing all types of manufacturing jobs to China as well.

China will be the superpower of the second half of the 21st century. They will have the capital. They will have the technology. They will have the education. They will have the culture.

We zone out on Rap and Reality TV and they are studying violin and engineering. We laud the lowest common denominator and they aim for the pinnacles of culture. We fall and they climb. We set our standards low and they set their standards high.

Interesting how these discussions of quality evolve.

[Rex]

So edited.

[AZhitman]

We zone out on Rap and Reality TV and they are studying violin and engineering. We laud the lowest common denominator and they aim for the pinnacles of culture. We fall and they climb. We set our standards low and they set their standards high.

Once again, absolute brilliance from Mike - Why do you think I rail against the crap that's on TV, the crap that's fed to "sheep" consumers (domestic disposable cars) and the crap that the media tells us is "quality". Hype has become a synonym for quality, and it's just abhorrent.

BTW - I have driven several cars/trucks this past week that I'd like to comment on:

Drove a customer's 2000 Camaro - I'd rather have a 2000 Hyundai. What a POS this car was - Poor visibility, clunky steering, ponderous acceleration and the most horrible ergonomics and switchgear of anything since my wife's old 86 Sunbird.

Drove a 2002 Corvette Convertible. Insert almost all comments from the Camaro, just less vehemently. No power top? WTF?

2003 Lightning - Just like the Mustang 5.0: Great drivetrain in a tarted-up base model vehicle. Close, but no thanks at $26K.

New RSX Type S - What's all the fuss about? G35 sedan would eat this thing for lunch. Nasty interior, looks like it was designed by the "Naaaawssss" kid from F & F.

The new Chevy pickup/roadster thing (so memorable I forgot the name - SSR or some such nonsense)... Slug. Heavy, slow and dull. Again, someone's been playing in the GM parts bin, as it looks like an amalgamation of all the other GM garbage, especially the switchgear and the latches/hinges and underhood bits.

Various Centurys, Malibus, Intrepids and a couple PT Losers - Sorry, guys. Go back to the drawing board. Better yet, pay your engineers like you pay your stylists (and fire the stylists).

[rydwhite]

You mentioned the Chrysler 300 earlier. Isn't that a larger car and didn't she want to stay relatively small. The 300 is a little bigger than an M, right?

Well, for her purpose, I would have to say that the Acura TL may be the way to go. If she doesn't like the looks of the M or the interior of the G, the only one really left would be an i.

On an other note. My dad just bought a new F-150 Lariat. It is a really nice looking truck and it is amazing how quiet it is. It is much quieter than my G coupe. If there is one thing that domestic automakers do fairly well, i believe it is make long lasting trucks. Now, yes, I do believe that the parts quality has gone down some, but I still feel that Ford, Chevy and Dodge all make very dependable, long lasting trucks. I had a 93 Ranger that had nearly 150,000 miles and ran great, the only mechanical problem I had was a leaky heater hose ($5 fix) and then just routine maintanence. My grandpa had a 85 Ford F-150 that had over 225,000 miles before he sold it. From personal experience, I feel that American made trucks last a helluva long time. But, that said, so do the Toyota and Nissan trucks.

[Mitch95J]

Damm, to bad you can't talk her to buying A used J or Q. save a butt load of money and still have all the goodes with reliabilty.

Aaaww......F@#k it ! , I guess if I had 35-40 grand I"d spend it on a M45

[driverdriver]

VimyJ Wrote:

"China will be the superpower of the second half of the 21st century. They will have the capital. They will have the technology. They will have the education. They will have the culture."

Its kind of hard to believe, since China ranks close to bottom on the corrupt country list (source:http://www.transparency.org/pr....html). I've heard people say that all real wealth for this century is being generated in places like India, Phillipines and China but with all their corruption issues it makes me wonder. Being of East Indian descent I can attest to all the corruption that exists in India. Its so bad and ingrained there that Time Magazine recently wrote an article.

rydwhite wrote:

"You mentioned the Chrysler 300 earlier. Isn't that a larger car and didn't she want to stay relatively small. The 300 is a little bigger than an M, right?"

My dad works for Chrysler and he would be heartbroken if we didn't test drive the new 300C (besides its built in Canada and the USA). And my dad has good luck with his '98 300C. The interior is a bit like Infinti with the analogue clock in the center of the dash.

Mitch95J wrote:

"Damm, to bad you can't talk her to buyingA used J or Q. save a butt load of money and still have all the goodes with reliabilty."

I'm finding as my Infiniti ages-even with all tha dealer service from new (unfortunatly it doesn't age like my '90 Civic), I've got to put more money into it. I don't want two cars where at some point down the road (or in the near future) where the cost pertaining to keeping the car on the road costs more than the value of the car.