Has anyone succesfully converted a Q45 to a non-Nissan V8?

[cmccort]

I am just wondering if anyone has converted a Q45 and fitted it with a different V8?

Thanks

[Q45tech]

Violation of Federal Clean Air Act if used on the street, double whammy [fines] if the displacement exceeds 4.494 liters.

Engine swaps on 1990 and newer vehicles must be from same brand engine family and the same year or newer with no increase in displacement.

Just because your state doesn't have visual and any emission testing doesn't mean you didn't break the Federal Law and cannot be tagged in another state passing thru or in the future when you sell a violator and it tries to get emission compliant in another state.............Messy until it dies in the junkyard.

[Jesda]

Someone did a Chevy 350. I have no idea how. A NICO member swapped in an RB26, which of course isn't a V8.

[maxnix]

eBay had a G50 with a 454 in it. Must have handled like a pig.

Why would one want to downgrade?

[greenwar]

So any type of swap for example v8 in a Miata, or V8 in an RX7 are all illegal?

[Q45tech]

Of course they are because vehicles are specified at emission in grams per mile driven/idled.

It is not the swap per se but the act of driving the swap on the public roads. Even applying for emission test is fraud if you pass [by bribery or incompetence by shop].

Not like Federal government has inspectors that actually look for violations.California has an expensive method where you can pay to have the larger engine evaluated and measured for compliance..............few pass after spending $30,000 for testing.

There is an exemption for driving off road, must be trailered to the track or event.

[maxnix]

I think Mallet, Callaway, Lingenfelter, Brabus, RennSport and the like get their modifications approved in some states.

You as an individual can only do it on a 1967 or earlier vehicle.

[BigAlAtlanta]

There is a company in Florida that puts Chevy V8s into older (70's & 80's) Jaguar sedans.

But why would you want to downgrade?

[Jeff Williams]

If Chevrolet puts a 427 in a Corvette from the factory, then you can swap out your 350 for the 427 in your personal car of the same year.

[Q45denver]

Not sure what would be gained by doing this?

[Jesda]

What the Q -really- needs is a different transmission.

[ScottJackson]

Downgrade? It's all how you look at it. The VH45 is a solid engine with decent displacement and plenty of technology compared to an archaic pushrod V8 (however, overhead cams were around before pushrods were invented so which is really more technologically advanced?). If you want silky smooth idle, better than 20mpg, and very low maint. along with parts that were all made to work together, the VH is the way to go. However, if you are limited on $$$, high on fabrication ability and time, and want lots of power at the likely cost of fuel mileage, a big displacement American V8 is a great option. A 454 chevy isn't a lightweight, but with aluminum heads/intake/water pump they aren't too terribly heavy. However, they have the oil pump at the back so you'd better go dry sump if you want one in a Q. Much easier option is a front sump engine such as ford 460 or 302/351. I finally found a good cheap 351W so y'all may know very soon how well one fits in a G50. I'll probably keep the iron D7TE heads instead of swapping on my 4V cleveland heads. They're lighter, take up less room, and when you're going forced induction, will flow plenty of air. Yep, the plan is to bolt up my 4R70W trans with 3000rpm 10" converter (with anti balloon plate, welded fins, and torrington bearings) to a 351W with either one turbo in the 70-75mm range or two 60mm turbos. I think the cost of doing that will be about the same as a set of aluminum heads and will make more street rpm power. Alum heads will come later. I may also use a set of 302 pistons to drop compression. It'll also give no quench so it'll be a chance to test out the quench theory. If you'll notice on a stock smogger small block chevy, they have a full round dish piston that is below deck a bit. The quench area on those is likely less than 1 square inch and it's not particularly tight either. Welp, time to get off my a$$ and actually start doing something, eh?

[AlabamaDan]

Ive never heard anything about not being able to swap engines in a car. It's my car. Why cant I do what I want to with it? Just another example of big government meddling in our business if you ask me.

[elwesso]

Honestly I woudl prefer to put some other nissan motor or something similar into a Q than a chevy/ford V8. I am a purist. If I wanted something that was easy to build, was a piece of garbage (build quality) but ran like a bat out of hell, id get a camaro or a fox body mustang. Of course, id have to plan about 6 months ahead to get my mullet in full force.

Remember, just because they are reliable doesnt mean they they are built like crap. Sure you can make 400HP out of a 454, but you can also make 300HP out of a 274 if its done right....

The RB25 Q is understandable for what he was going with, i think its way cool. Not to say I'd do it but getting 400HP is gonna be easier (a matter of turning up the boost and calling it a day)

[ScottJackson]

You can get 600+hp out of a streetable 454 if it's done right :p If I wanted a piece of garbage, I too would buy a camaro or fox stang... but I don't. I want something with nice interior and suspension with a throaty V8 that makes gobs of torque and horsepower. Why put a hot rod engine in a tin can when you could slide it into something like a Q, Benz,BMW....? In fact, BMW and Mercedes already do this straight from the factory with the M series and AMG. Yeah, I'd like an E55 AMG, but why not build my own version of it for far less than a used E55 or M5? If I had the cash, one of those two cars is what I'd own (or a CL65 since I'm dreaming anyway).

[cmccort]

Exactly, I could not agree more! My thought after pulling the plenum off and performing compression checks is that; Yes the Q has a very good engine but way to complicated to work on and to many issues with minor problems making it (In my opinion) to much work for the reward. If a bolt on supercharger or turbo system were available I would love to keep the Q original. Bottom line is that I love the look of the car, I love the luxury but I want more horsepower and more performance that simply is not readily available for the Q.

[silver2k2]

So you decided not to sell the Q to the scrapper I assume?

Good news

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=100533

It can be done by going to the Board of Air Resources there are many BAR certified civics with gsr engines running around, it doesnt cost 30k

The biggest rule is that the car is of the Same year or newer. That is going to be the problem getting everthing computerized to work. You can replace your gauge panel like midnight sliding did, but that will take away the luxury feel.

I personally think its way to much work, and the car was never designed for a small block or big block. Even if you do wedge it in there getting all the accessories to work will be another chore.

Personally I would tune it up to as new as possible new plugs, KS, and 02s and get the nico ecu and maybe a rearend. Anything more I would just buy a faster car, or a second car

But hey if you live in easy state to get certified or no smog, and you have lots of time, and decent amount of money for fabrication of custom parts, and you like a challenge (no aftermarket or vendor support)

Do it, and take pictures
Modified by silver2k2 at 3:44 PM 8/27/2007

[elwesso]

Dont take this the wrong way, but if you cant keep a STOCK Q45 running properly then you are in for a RUDE awakening when you come time to swap. If you cant pull the plenum sucessfully, how do you think you're gonna get a different engine in the car, tune it and make all that other crap work.

Its very possible... VERY possible, but people forget that you actually have to DO the work to get the motor in the car. If you cant do it yourself and you have to pay someone else to do it, by the time its all said and done you'd been better off keeping the Q stock or doing some minor mods to it. You'd probably spend just as much in parts to get the swap to work as you would in parts AND labor to get the Q back to OEM new running condition, and then modify from there.

The VH can take 450HP stock, so spray away or something like that. You can get bolt on superchargers, just no one has gotten one yet.

I think theres a TON of things you are NOT considering when you think about doing an engine swap.

IM not trying to be a d!ck, im just trying to be as realistic as possible. I dont want to see you tear your Q apart and then be left over way over your head with a bunch of pieces. At least, you can get the Q running properly then sell it and get something else.

[Q45denver]

Well put Wes. If you can't afford the VH maintenance how are you going to afford the swap and 10 MPG?

[sijoko]

By the time the receipts are added up for this type of swap, one could have thrown a low mileage JDM motor in the car and then turbocharged it. If there was a kit or something available to swap in a LS2 into a Q, then I could see some benefits. Until then, it is cheaper to keep the stock engine.

[ScottJackson]

It's amazing how similar the new LSx series of chevy v8s are to the old Ford V8s. Evenly spaced intake and exhaust ports, oil pump at the front, cam higher in the block compared to old sbc, 1.7 ratio rocker arms, exact same firing order as Ford 351... Everybody is hyping up the new LS1 and LS2 chevy engines but they seem to forget (or never knew) they could do the exact same thing with an old cheap 351W and inexpensive aftermarket heads. You can build a relatively inexpensive 427 ford with a stock 351W block of any year and have a forged crank, 4340 H beam rods, and very good quality 2618 or 4032 pistons. It's also a rather lightweight engine (especially with the aluminum parts) with very good oiling system and the stock 2 bolt mains with factory caps and bolts has proven reliable to over 700hp.

That said, Wes is very right that putting one in a Q is no cake walk. The tach should hook right up and fuel gauge is no issue. Oil pressure gauge is only an adapter fitting away. Alternator would probably be best replaced by an internal regulated 3G late model mustang unit. Wiring would be simple. Power steering would simply need lines made to mate the rack to the ford pump (dunno if the electronic solenoid could be kept functional though). Then it's a matter of getting a transmission for the ford engine, hooking up the shifter, driveshaft, and crossmember. Then you've got to make motor mounts (not hard with the Qs factory frame mounts) and exhaust. I suspect shorty mustang headers will work with little or no modifications (prob need a little work on the driver side). But yeah, if you can't easily do the plenum job, a full blown domestic V8 swap probably isn't smart. If I only wanted 400-450hp max, I'd just nitrous my Q and call it a day until something major breaks. But hey, if I can pull of the swap and make 600hp and 700ft/lbs, why not? As a side note, I've measured the rear wheel well area and it looks like I can pretty easily fit 285/35-18 tires.

Oh yes, as for the donor engine needing to be from a newer model year engine, they made the 351W until at least '96.
Modified by ScottJackson at 5:50 AM 8/28/2007

[elwesso]

Scott i agree, ive got 18x9s and I see at least another 1/2in without coming close to anything, 18x10s dont seem unreasonable to me in the rear.... Thats also assuming a fairly stock alignment and not a crazy outward fitment.

I also agree that making 600HP out of a VH isnt going to be easy compared to swapping in something else... mainly because its never really been done.. 600HP I would think would be attainable on stock compression. It all depends on if you'd rather hook up turbos, install new injectors, and remap the ECU.... or swap in a different motor entirely...

For me personally, its not about the easiest route. I'd NEVER install a domestic V8 into a Q, no matter how much power I wanted. As you guys already know, I am a purist so its just a different point of view.

In the end, if you have your mind set on racing, its going to be a pain in the arse to get everything to work as it shoud and make it an enjoyable daily driver. Theres always going to be some sort of issue to deal with, just depends if you have the skill OR the money to deal with it.

[cmccort]

All,

Read the post more carefully, I never said that I could not afford the maintenance or was unable to take the plemun off sucessfully. I was simply making the point that I have three other vehichles that I do all of the maintenance on 2003 Honda Odessy (My Wifes of course) 2002 Lexus RX 300 and a 2003 LS 430. I can tell you that the RX and LS are much easier to work on and the LS will smoke the my Q without taking a deep breath so the point I was making was not intended to offend anyone it's simply the fact that you can over-complicate anything and for the performance you get out of the Q versus the complexity of every system the car has just does not make sense to me personally. I was absolutely shocked and baffled as to why you would design and engineer a plenum that way. It was as if the engineers all said "Let's run as many items as we can through, around, under and behind this structure as we possibly can". I apologize if what I am saying offends or upset's anyone as that is not my intent. I was simply looking for another option that would allow me to keep the vehichle. I take complete accountability for my mistake, I should have done much more research before purchasing. I was looking for a large sedan with enough luxury that I could drive it for work if I wanted to yet have the ability to smoke the beamers and mustangs when needed. But currently I just do not believe the innovation and technology is out there for the Q.

[sijoko]

Nissan put a lot of engineering into the VH45DE when it was designed in the late 80s. It is somewhat complicated but the features it has are still outstanding today. In stock configuration, the power is not that great but there is a lot of potential in this engine.

How many V8 engines do you know of that came with a forged bottom end, minus the pistons which are hypereutectic?

How many V8 engines have 6 bolt main caps with a ladder frame that connects the caps together?

How many V8 engines came with sodium filled exhaust valves?

How many V8s can rev to 6900 rpm (over 7200 with aftermarket ECU)?

How many V8s come with piston oil squirters from the factory?

Yes, I will agree that the engine can be a pain to work on. Ease of maintenance was not a priority for the engineers. The plenum is actually an equal length design but it is nevertheless a pain to remove. The good thing is that the engine is not a glass motor and can last a long time with proper maintenance. My Q45 has over 230k on the original engine and it doesn't burn oil.

Here's an article from Road & Tracks Guide to the New Infiniti Q45 printed in 1989:

[Q45tech]

315k on engine and now it burns and leaks a little oil not 1 quart in 3,750 miles.

[Q45denver]

If you know what your doing, you could probably remove most of the emissions and related plumbing from the engine and make it fairly simple to remove the plenum.

[cmccort]

All very good points and great feedback!!!! I am just frustrated and dissapointed that after buying the car for $4500 and putting $1800 in it so that it ran properly the NOS blows up. So then I have to make a decision....... I would love to put a JDM engine in it and have bassically a brand new powertrain but I still would not have a really fast car and I do not feel comfortable equiping it with NOS again. If there was a readilly available turbo system or a proven affordable Supercharger I would stay in the game without hesitation. I would love nothing more than to have a 94 Q that when challenged would leave people with a "what the %@&# is under that hood" expression on their face. Anyway, I am selling the car to one of our Phoenix members who I know will get good use out of it wether it becomes a parts car or a project.Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice. I will definately keep my eye on this forum and as soon as one of the turbo projects are perfected or someone figures out how to unleash the Q's full furry I will get back in the game.

Regards to All

[tkd_q45]

Why not go with a LS-1 or LS-2 engine?

I've heard that CARB laws state that if you have an engine that is newer than the car it's going into, that you will need to pass to the clean air standards of that MY engine.

These engines have 350 - 400hp and would at least match stock MPG, maybe better. My uncle's LS-1 Vette often betters 30MPG on the highway and 20 around town. Granted, it's a much lighter car than the Q.

Much easier to mod and upgrade as there are a ton of inexpensive (relatively speaking) performance upgrades.

I would think that they would be lighter than the stock engine due to being much more compact and mechanically simple than the VH. There are people who do this with the 3rd gen RX-7 and state that the LS-1 is actually lighter than the twin turbo rotary engine.