has anyone installed an in tank walbro pump on a g50?

[subtle_driver]

i thought i would ask, cause the stock pump has a long pickup and the walbro does not. it would starve at less than half a tank.

i searched but didn't come up with a writeup.

[maxnix]

There is a comment, but it involves changing the base plate and the fuell pick-up line.

The question is why would you want to?

[MinisterofDOOM]

There is a comment, but it involves changing the base plate and the fuell pick-up line.

The question is why would you want to?

Walbro fuel pumps are generally known for being good quality for much cheaper than OEM price. They provide more than enough fuel to replace the OEM pump. Since they're single-speed (or single-rate, or however you prefer to look at it) but that speed is still better than OEM, they eliminate the need for the FPCU, which simplifies the OEM fuel system and also makes pump replacement cheaper (and, for subsequent replacements, simpler).

I put a walbro pump in my Maxima 3 or 4 years ago and it has performed wonderfully.

When it comes time to replace the pump in my Q, I'd rather eliminate the FPCU and replace the OEM pump with a cheaper (but still more than adequately performing) walbro.

The pickup length problem is, I imagine, the result of the Q's vertical tank orientation.

[Infinitiguy19]

But with out the FPCU don't you run the risk of flooding the engine?

Plus what if your cruising (34PSI OEM pump and FPCU) and the walbro puts out say 43 PSI which is more than needed aren't you running rich that way?

[MinisterofDOOM]

With a proper return system, excess fuel returns to the tank. The fuel pump can't provide more fuel volume to the cylinders themselves than the injectors allow anyway.

[Infinitiguy19]

Then that sounds like a good reason to switch over to the walbro, But just hope they don't raise there prices cause a couple of Q45 guys like there pumps.

[Drake57]

MOD is right, the regulator system returns any excess volume that the pump delivers. So other than slightly more buzz from the fuel pump at low engine speeds there should be no difference.

I applaud the idea. If there is a less expensive way to keep your car running, and you don't mind the extra time involved, more power to you.

PS the price of efi fuel pumps has risen dramatically over the last 10 years - IMO the manufacturer's liability insurance costs contribute to that rise more than anything else.

[subtle_driver]

well, I pulled the stock pump out to see if i could figure it out on my own. It turned out to be an easy swap. I just removed the metal clip on the pickup and installed the whole thing on the walbro pump. it fit perfect.

The walbro pump is smaller, quiet and pumps more than enough for my E85 ethanol performance tune. [remember E85 uses 30% more fuel than gasoline]I drag raced it today and ran 11 passes at the local 1.8th mile and managed to get 10.3 seconds at 73mph with a completely stock setup other than the 7,500rpm shift points and early activation of vvt and +14 degrees, over stock, of timing at benificial points of powerband and no top speed limiter etc,,, programed into the stock computer by e-mance.com. still in the experimental stage of tuning. but it runs and idles well for me.it pulls extremely hard from 3,500rpm up untill 7,500 rpm and takes off in 2nd gear, and i wish i had a 1/4 mile to see what it would do with more room.

thanks! btw, i didn't do anything but swap pumps. I'm not sure what eliminate the FPCU means?

[Infinitiguy19]

You got a Q45 to run on E-85, If so care to share how?

He means to eliminate the computer that tells the Fuel pump to pump 34 PSI or 43 PSI of fuel.

[MinisterofDOOM]

FPCU is the Fuel Pump Control Unit.

[Drake57]

The FPCU controls the resistance in the fuel pump ground circuit, so that depending on engine load/rpm etc. the fuel pump runs faster or slower. Under high loads the fuel pump ground wire is connected to ground with no resistance, fuel pump delivers maximum output; under lighter loads (idle or low rpm) fpcu selects a ground with a little resistance, fuel pump runs slower, is quieter. I think fpcu can select three or four different power levels.

To eliminate fpcu, tie fuel pump ground wire directly to the frame. What I cannot say for sure is whether this mod will result in fp running constantly when ignition is on, or if fp positive lead is hot only when engine is starting or running.

[Drake57]

PS, please share Walbro part number with the forum for anyone else interested in what sounds like an easy economical swap.

Thanks, Drake.

[maxnix]

E85, really?

[subtle_driver]

ok here is my time:

e.t. 10.219mph 70.320reaction time: .064 seconds

1/8th mile stock with e85, z32tt fuel filter and walbro pump.

you know, the e85 has cleaned my injectors and all the carbon from the and it runs smooth as hell now! the exhaust smell makes you drunk. I also ran it on the smog dyno, it runs cleaner than a new honda civic.

thanks for the info on the fuel pump module. i just left that alone, i took it apart and checked for the burned ground, but found nothing so i thought i should just leave it intact. it works fine. if it gives me trouble i'll just run the pump at one speed. but it seems like a better idea if it is fed different voltages so it will have a longer life.... in theory.

come on, im sure there are alot of other people tuning their 1990 g50 stock computers to run e85.

if you are willing to wait a little are are serious enough, and there is enough demand [requests] you can go to e-mance.com and send an email with a request i'm sure you can generate interest.

The next stage of tuning is dyno with wideband. instead of just butt dyno and wideband, hehe... then dial it in for fuel effeciency and reliabiliy and runability.







drove in my daily driver with remington tires... at the drag strip... did 11 runs 7 of them were hot laps. and drove home. maintainance, and good tuning rules. but i still lost to the evo

[MinisterofDOOM]

The issue with the G50 and E85 is not the computer, but the fragile fuel system, specifically the injectors. Search for "injectors" and "ethanol."

[Drake57]

Nice pictures.

SummitRacing lists several in tank walbro fp's. It would be really nice to know which one worked out well for you.

thanks, Drake.

[Q45tech]

Always good to read this before redesigning fuel pump:http://www.mkiv.com/techarticl....html

[subtle_driver]

GSS-342 is what i used! i tried to post last night but the server was busy.

[Infinitiguy19]

So you mind telling us a little more on how you converted your Q45 to run on E-85?

Please make a separate topic too.

Do you have any videos of your Q45 and track runs?

[subtle_driver]

ya maybe later after i get it fine tuned and see how everything holds up. i only ran 3 tanks of e85. you can get more info from jason at http://www.e-mance.com email him, he is working with me on tuning my car right now. i'm working on the videos, but trust me, 10.3 is not super fast. so its kinda borring.... but i made some nice 20+ second burnouts. hehe ... scares the crap out of the guys who line up with me. then i go slow. remeber the horrible stock gearing?

[Infinitiguy19]

Well you did'nt let E-85 stop you so get a level 10 transmission.

Any videos?

[MinisterofDOOM]

GSS-342 is what i used! i tried to post last night but the server was busy.

Good to know, thanks.

[Q45tech]

Important to understand the math and work out that a return system needs to flow 2-2.5 x the amount of fuel required by the horsepwer equation otherwise the pressure is unstable and a cylinder may run lean and vary.

320HP/2=160 pounds or 26 gallons per hour or 100 liters per hour.

However this is for an A/F ratios of 12.5 not 10 as programmed by ecu to cool the pistons and cats.

So 12.5/10=125% more or 125 liters x 2-2.5= 250-312 liters per hour

Hopefully you can see a 255 liter pump barely cuts it in maintaining a steady 43.4 psi fuel rail pressure. [This works because of the extra fuel pulse damper circuit in front of rail] ............driven by the air pulses infront of throttlebody.

This all works because Q are not driven at full load for very long and their is the 25% extra richness margin to work against for pump aging and voltages drops as the pump heats up from high rpm use.

I would be nice to measure piston temperature or a surogate of cylinderhead temperature as coolant or oil temps take too long to go up due to mass of liquids.

Coolant is especially slow due to it's weight of 20 pounds [oil 10 pounds]

http://www.lindertech.com/fuelpump.htm

[subtle_driver]

i got 10:1 afr at 7,500rpms with e85 running a safe test tune. then we dialed it in at 12.5:1. the pump flows enough. it is advertized at 500ish hp. all i know is what i see on the wideband.

[Q45tech]

Doing the engineering analysis is only necessary if you care about pump life.

I like my parts to last 100,000 miles or 7 years so I'm conservative in load calculations.

Based on the look of a half dozen failed Lexus V8 pumps after using E10 for just 1 year, I would be concerned with any pump and E85.

I have thought about fuel pumps from Ford E85 4.6 Crown Vics hoping they might have been redesigned and tested [?].

[Raxephon]

Important to understand the math and work out that a return system needs to flow 2-2.5 x the amount of fuel required by the horsepwer equation otherwise the pressure is unstable and a cylinder may run lean and vary.

320HP/2=160 pounds or 26 gallons per hour or 100 liters per hour.

However this is for an A/F ratios of 12.5 not 10 as programmed by ecu to cool the pistons and cats.

So 12.5/10=125% more or 125 liters x 2-2.5= 250-312 liters per hour

Hopefully you can see a 255 liter pump barely cuts it......

No biggie.

You throw 2x 255lph pumps in the tank, run one to each fuel rail, and you've still spent less than you would on a factory pump.

For the price of 2x OEM fuel pumps I can get 6x 255/lph pumps.

[subtle_driver]

the good videos are coming next week.

some guy took these with his phone:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViFdMbnp ... Tx_C7_rw8o

the honda sounds like a**.