Has any one read this? Must Read

[blue_hauder]

Surfing the web and found this article, be sure to read the whole thing.

http://www.angelfire.com/va2/S....html

[Touchdown038]

It all comes down to opinion. Everybody has one.

[89240sx]

I donno , he made some good points I would have to agree with him.

the only way these cars compete is with alot of money.... plain and simple

stock american muscle puts them to shame every time...

equal up mods vs mods and you still lose... who cares if he doesnt like them

I dont

[Cyberkreig]

anyone that doesnt doesnt build their car to dragrace, and with nothing more than displacement inmind is a Ricer.

Or the writer of that webpage is a bitter moron.

[ace135cc]

the page has horrible colours, they must be colour blind.

[BuudWeizErr]

meh, at least i can handle better.

[InstantRice]

the writer brought up the Z06 point which everyone and there mama knows. he is a complete moron who has no idea what many imports are about cough*skyline*cough.

[quiksilvia]

that guy sucks-kill him!

[InstantRice]

elegantly stated

[theronin]

i didnt think that gsr's were rare? i could be wrong!

[C-Kwik]

Hmm? Just went to a vintage V8 drag race and show today. There was as a whole lot of money thrown into these hot rods to make them run 10's. Most of them did. The writer seems quite ignoratn to the fact that these V8 hotrodders thow all kinds of money in to chrome engine parts, custom body work, and a whole muriad of suspension, engine and driveline parts so thay can handle the 500+ HP these put out. They mostly run on race gas with high compression pistons(my friend's buddy's car was running 14:1).

What's really sad to me is some of these 500+ HP NA V8's are running at or near 100HP per liter. And many of them at the time they were originally built made about the same HP as a modern 4 cylinder motor less than half it's size. And yet companies like Honda builds motors with HP to displacement ratios from the factory that are similar to what the modified V8's run. And better still, tuners still seem to have room to extract more power.

He certainly makes valid points about V8's being generally faster in a straight line, but he should try to level the playing field. Imagine what you would see out of some kind of a crazy 5.7L VTEC V8 motor. And the kicker would be that it would be as powerful as some of these modified V8's. while retaining all smog equipment, run on pump gas, and be ULEV. It would probably have much better gas mileage as well. Ford has at least stepped away from using pushrods in eve the affordable performance V8's. Chevy only offers a OHC set-up in the Corvette. And Dodge still uses pushrods in their latest iteration of the Hemi V8. Even my V8-head friend was surprised at that fact. If Domestic companies woke up to half the technology that is available, Imports would have no chance.

My opinion, he's moronic. He praises the Supra yet, dogs a Skyline which has a motor that is quite comparable to the Supra's, yet fails to realize the Skyline isn't praised just for it's motor, but for the drivetrain and suspension. But we should forgive him. He's just plain ignorant.

[TomsMR2]

hp/liter is a worthless argument. id rather have 300hp 5.0L than 100hp 1.0L. at the end of the day, what matters is whos faster.. even it faster comes to the tune of 50hp/L

[Megaseth]

HAHA, what a moron. true he has a few points, but most of it is just plain stupidity. he probably only knows how to go fast in a straight line. but dogging the skyline is the ultimate sin. hmm, a 2.6L motor, that can be turned to make around 1300hp. nah, its just a rice burner and doesnt need respect. and 450hp, thats just a chip swap, and some new filters, nothing much. AND stock boost. eff him and his cake.

[C-Kwik]

hp/liter is a worthless argument. id rather have 300hp 5.0L than 100hp 1.0L. at the end of the day, what matters is whos faster.. even it faster comes to the tune of 50hp/L

You missed my point entirely. You are comparing a 100 HP motor to a 300 HP motor. Apples and Oranges. Lets forget Honda and perhaps look at BMW. M3. 333 HP out of a 3.2L I-6. Where's that 300HP 5.0 L now? What I was saying is that if the domestics got wise, they could build a High HP VTEC/VTC type large displacement V8 motor that can certainly outpower all kinds of cars, with negligible losses in drivability and good smog and perhaps even good gas mileage. Though, it's amazing that Chevy can pull 28 MPG out of their corvette on the highways. If the Viper motor pulled out 100HP per Liter, they'd be running 800 HP. Or they could just run a smaller motor that will actually make as much or more power than it's current motor. And with emissions and gas mileage standards becoming higher, they need to be taking a harder look at the technology that is out there. Not just on their smaller compact cars, but really in their performance cars as well.

And looking at HP/L is quite important. Especially for those of us who want to make more power. To increase power, most look to increasing efficiency. This is directly correlating to increasing the HP/L. Certainly, you can increase displacement, but for a given motor, how much can you actually increase it? I doubt I'd be able to bore and stroke my KA to the tune of 5.0L. So the better option would be to try and increase the HP/L. Even the V8 guys do this. And they do it well. There are some 700HP NA small block Chevy's out there. And that's before the NOS is injected. And they certainly didn't do that by bumping up displacement to 10.0L.

[quiksilvia]

there is no replacement for displacement, except technology

[blue_hauder]

Did any notice that he ripped on 240's?

[InstantRice]

yeah, he ripped on the skyline and the 240 all in the same sentence. Idiot.

[nlzmo400r]

i agree and disagree with some of the comments he stated, but whats this about not being able to call a 45ohp turbo'd car a supercar, personally i wouldnt call a skyline a supercar, but its damn close if it has 45ohp (pretending this would come from the factory, via the rb26dett) the old F4os were 3.o liter v8 twin turbo's, is that not a supercar??, if that isnt, what is, and that motor is smaller than the 35oZ motor! and has TWO turbo's (all in all that was a stupid statement he made), the porshce 911 gt2 has 456hp out of a 3.6 liter flat 6 and has turbo, thats a supercar, basically most americans in this day and age (adults atleast) were brought up on 7o's muscle cars, huge n/a displacement, and some are trying so hard to not let that go. i agree that american muscle is a legend, and probably always will be, but thats no reason to put down imports and call them incapable, its just that many people happne to be able to afford japanese cars with power (or atleast potential) and most can't afford a 5ok zo6 or 8ok viper, i dont ever see these 'IMPORT HATERS' hating on european turbo'd cars, such as hte f4o i mentioned above, hell hte jaguar xj22o was a twin turbo'd 6cylinder that was capable of 2oo+mph, how is that not a supercar, its an import as well, dont see much hating on that, i think american muscle finatics (and i love the sound of a vette myself) are just jealous that the trend has changed, but then again, opinions are like 'axxholes' everybody's got one

[SingleCamSam]

I'm not sure, but i think the Z06 runs well short of 11's from the factory.

[Megaseth]

i thought it ran something like 12's or 13's

[Molotov]

there is no replacement for displacement, except technology

Until you apply that same technology to a higher displacement engine.

[theronin]

troll

[C-Kwik]

Until you apply that same technology to a higher displacement engine.

Exactly...but since most domestic manufacturer's still insist on using pushrods, I doubt we will see much out of them in this department. And what is sad is I'll bet this is the bean counter's fault. We have engineers in the US that are very capable of being on the technological forefront. But instead, they look like dumbasses who are still stuck on old technology. Hell, the Korean Car Manufacturer's may even pass them up.

[nrcooled]

This guy is an idiot! He contridicts himself many times. He talks about how much horsepower his beloved V8 makes then proceeds to call the Supra a dyno whore. So what is the V8? What an moron!

After I started tuning my SR, and actually beating V8s, did I realize that they are not that fast. I love the look the the Mustang GT's owners face when I walk him...or stay fender to fender on a Cobra. Z28s bleh!

I think he should spend more time in the real tuning scene before he makes generalizations. I appreciate V8s and all cars but for he author to be so narrow minded is ludicrous.

Edit: You can't hate on the V8 sound coming from a SVT Cobra though

[TurboKA37]

my blood is boiling after reading that! i just dont understand y domestics are always dissing imports and imports are dissing domestics. the imports are the underdogs and by making articles like that one it just determines ppl to prove that guy wrong and make a 10 sec. honda. and when these people do make their 10 sec hondas it makes the domestics even madder and they post more web pages like that one. see its a never ending circle of tuning and bashing

[TurboKA37]

owe yea and i think the domestic companies know they can produce more power and efficiency by using variable valve timing but in my opinion they are prolly afraid they will loose sales due to their buyers thinking their new chevy or ford is being "riced out"

[blue_hauder]

I was thinking about it and I hear a lot of talk about american musle and all its glory. But what GM products come with a V8? Pickups, Corvettes, Cadillacs, Caprices. Cadillacs aren't even RWD. Oh **** I forgot all the monstous Suvs. Well at least there aren't too many cars that stike fear into import owners. ( I think import owners probably fear the caprices the most, especially the ones with the police package) Well the point I am trying to make is american muscle for the most part is dead, with the exception of a few models, 3 I can think of, lives on in name only. How many different kinds of 4 cylinder cars do you see that people try to hop and make cool. A lot more than 3 for damn sure

[574-240sx]

That guy had alot to say. I have to agree displacement will always win. But I like auto crossing and drifting. Nick

[yashin]

i think that this guy is a moron, he has a huge inferiority complex, so much so that he went as far as to make a website about it, and now on to the cars

first off the corvette is not a 11 sec car, not even close, the new ones with the 405 hp LS6 run12.5 and the 350hp LS1 run 13.3, so he is about .5 sec off

second he is neglecting the fact that the corvette is a expesive supercar (compared to the cars imprt fans tune), these things arent cheap, the Z06 starts at $53 000 USD and runs 12.5, now lets use a car on the current market, the 350Z it costs around $27 000 USD, now thats a $26 000 difference, anbody could easily, easily build a car that will be much, much faster thatn that with that price difference

and finally, even though i do respect the speed of american muscle cars like the vette, viper, and i don't really admire the level of tech that goes into these cars, i like that other (mostly japanese) companies try to use newer technology in effort to make a faster car, the big 3 american companies have become complacent to the point that they feel that they don't need to do these things, they can slap together and poorly built piece of crap and stick a big V8 into it, and people will buy it because it's american, they don't car about technology, so why should the makers try to make better cars

p.s. one last point , armerican cars are all built like ****, check any consumers guidea and the reliabilty of any american car, they are terrible built, and after 5 years, they tend to fall apart, and this ain't opinion

[Gregariousgreg]

I think the original article and the the guy's reply were poorly written. They both made a few good points which were surrounded by crap.