I was reading some disscusions on this on the toyota weboards. Basically you build a cone shaped tube (Think of the top section of a beer bottle). Then you cut a slit along the asis of the tube large enough to fit your hacked sensor. you can now slide the sensor up tward the large end or down tward the bottom end. The tube really doesn't even have to be round. It could be piramid shapped for ease of construction(open on both ends of course).
Of course you will need to make some sort of cover to keep the air from leaking in around the slot but, thats no biggie.
Now tuning your ghetto hacked MAF car is easy. Simly move the sensor closer to the narrow end to richen the mix, or back tward the large end to lean the mix.
I have a few pics of the idea if someone will host them for me.
Hacking your MAF, Why not make it tuneable?
you would want a VERY narrow taper on this. If you're thinking funnel, it probably won't work.
However, it's a cool idea. How do you plan to seal the slot that this slides in?
I would instead put the MAFS entirely inside the pipe, and have it ride on a threaded rod that goes down the length of the pipe. With some engineering, you could throw a gear motor on the threaded rod and remotely tune the MAFS.
But at this point, it'd be easier to just get an SAFC.
However, it's a cool idea. How do you plan to seal the slot that this slides in?
I would instead put the MAFS entirely inside the pipe, and have it ride on a threaded rod that goes down the length of the pipe. With some engineering, you could throw a gear motor on the threaded rod and remotely tune the MAFS.
But at this point, it'd be easier to just get an SAFC.
Of course I like the AFC. Its not the only option IMO. I like the idea of being able to tune from inside the car but saving $300 and still having some fuel control would be better. And when you consider that the car only cost me 1500 I would rather not buy a box that is 1/5th the total value of the car.
Im interesed in finding the AF ratio I want and then locking it down. Electrical tape will do till then. Yea I will have to do some aria calculations to see how small of a taper I will want.
The porblem with putting the MAFS inside the pipe is the big box on the end that will severely disrupt airflow. I like the idea of the treaded rod though. It could still be used on the outside and would give a fine adjustment that wouldent move.
Keep the ideas comin
Im interesed in finding the AF ratio I want and then locking it down. Electrical tape will do till then. Yea I will have to do some aria calculations to see how small of a taper I will want.
The porblem with putting the MAFS inside the pipe is the big box on the end that will severely disrupt airflow. I like the idea of the treaded rod though. It could still be used on the outside and would give a fine adjustment that wouldent move.
Keep the ideas comin
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rousie13
- Posts: 4106
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 5:55 pm
- Car: 2006 Nissan 350z Track Edition, 1997 Ford F250 4X4
- Location: Delaware, OH
node wrote:Of course I like the AFC. Its not the only option IMO. I like the idea of being able to tune from inside the car but saving $300 and still having some fuel control would be better. And when you consider that the car only cost me 1500 I would rather not buy a box that is 1/5th the total value of the car.
Im interesed in finding the AF ratio I want and then locking it down. Electrical tape will do till then. Yea I will have to do some aria calculations to see how small of a taper I will want.
The porblem with putting the MAFS inside the pipe is the big box on the end that will severely disrupt airflow. I like the idea of the treaded rod though. It could still be used on the outside and would give a fine adjustment that wouldent move.
If you think of that way, you shouldn't turbo your car or do anything like that. Parts to get more power are expensive and you will have a lot more invested in the car than what you paid or even what it's worth. So don't waste your time if you think I shouldn't buy this quality part, because thats 1/5 the value of the car or whatever. If you want power or looks or whatever you're into, you purchase the parts(keeping in mind your car is in good shape and not a POS).
Here's an idea that I've been working on lately:
This would theoretically double your airflow at the same MAFS voltage, and on KA's, 550's would run just a teeny bit rich. Of course, you'd need a fuel pump to push all that, and even an old-school $80 AFC would help, but this is definitely something that i'm looking into.
This would theoretically double your airflow at the same MAFS voltage, and on KA's, 550's would run just a teeny bit rich. Of course, you'd need a fuel pump to push all that, and even an old-school $80 AFC would help, but this is definitely something that i'm looking into.
hmmm... very interesting idea. i think the idea with running two mafs and using one as a dummy is better. someone try this please. i dont see why it wouldnt work. itd be pretty cheap too as long as you can find some cheap injectors then a upgraded pump and find another maf. then put it on a wideband. someone should easily be able to try this on a boring weekend day. any takers?
I've also pondered the dual(dummie) maf sensor setup alot. Heck I even got 550cc injector for that reason. Don't know if its the route I want to take yet, but it defintly has my interest. I think I would want to get a wideband 02 sensor on it right away though... If the fuel turned out good, you could get a msd BTM or a similar product, and it seems like you would be covered to a pretty high horsepower.
rousie13 wrote:(keeping in mind your car is in good shape and not a POS).
Well my S14 IS a big POS right now and it is strictly for autoX and toying with. This coming spring i will build a motor for it. Right now though Im looking to make the most power for the least money. And a tunable MAF is not all that bad of an idea. There are several ppl here on the board who are using them to run larger injectors. The only drawback being that you cant control the timing of the stock ECU. That could end up causing pinging.
An adjustable Hacked MAF would do almost the same thing as an AFC. It would be limited in that it would adjust the fuel across the full RPM range not just at little incramental points. The drawback to the adjustable MAF would be if you were tuning the car and ran into a lean condition at only one point in the RPM. With the tunable MAF when you add fuel to protect you from detonation, you would be adding fuel accros the board. So you might run into some rich regions tuning this way and have no way to correct that(shooting flames perhaps
). Again the benifit would be you COULD run a turbo without running lean and popping the engine.
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Toms240420
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:57 pm
- Car: My car
Hacked MAF is already tuneable. Just use a different sized spacer. Both Orion and I have used this method successfully.
It'd be much easier to just make or obtain an adjustable FPR and tune from fuel pressure. This method allows you to get the most of your hacked MAF.
Quote »The porblem with putting the MAFS inside the pipe is the big box on the end that will severely disrupt airflow. [/quote]That would be a problem if you actually put the entire MAF electrical circuit inside the pipe, making it a bit of a problem to plug it in.The rest of us normals stick the MAFS sample tube through a hole in the pipe, and seal around that hole.
Quote » I'm budgeting $2100 for a 240hp turbo system. [/quote]i did 235rwhp (actual figure non SAE corrected) recently with my $1300 setup.
Quote »It would be limited in that it would adjust the fuel across the full RPM range not just at little incramental points. The drawback to the adjustable MAF would be if you were tuning the car and ran into a lean condition at only one point in the RPM. [/quote]Both hacked MAFs currently running on KAt's have dyno'ed safely, averaging under 13:1 at up to 8psi. We're dipping rich at about 3k (11:1) then settling below 13:1, depending on spacer/ adjustments.The hacked MAF was not ment to be a fuel system to handle beyond around 10psi. Beyond that you want some ignition control, and if you're spending on that you might as well be getting some better fuel management hardware. The original intent of the hacked MAF is a substitute for FMU's and other more expensive fuel control alternatives. It's just a means to get boosted on a budget.
It'd be much easier to just make or obtain an adjustable FPR and tune from fuel pressure. This method allows you to get the most of your hacked MAF.
Quote »The porblem with putting the MAFS inside the pipe is the big box on the end that will severely disrupt airflow. [/quote]That would be a problem if you actually put the entire MAF electrical circuit inside the pipe, making it a bit of a problem to plug it in.The rest of us normals stick the MAFS sample tube through a hole in the pipe, and seal around that hole.
Quote » I'm budgeting $2100 for a 240hp turbo system. [/quote]i did 235rwhp (actual figure non SAE corrected) recently with my $1300 setup.
Quote »It would be limited in that it would adjust the fuel across the full RPM range not just at little incramental points. The drawback to the adjustable MAF would be if you were tuning the car and ran into a lean condition at only one point in the RPM. [/quote]Both hacked MAFs currently running on KAt's have dyno'ed safely, averaging under 13:1 at up to 8psi. We're dipping rich at about 3k (11:1) then settling below 13:1, depending on spacer/ adjustments.The hacked MAF was not ment to be a fuel system to handle beyond around 10psi. Beyond that you want some ignition control, and if you're spending on that you might as well be getting some better fuel management hardware. The original intent of the hacked MAF is a substitute for FMU's and other more expensive fuel control alternatives. It's just a means to get boosted on a budget.
Quote »i did 235rwhp (actual figure non SAE corrected) recently with my $1300 setup.[/quote]I've been following your project with great interest, and your MAF hacking was the inspiration for much of my brainstorming.
I'm buying a new turbo, however, and going with an SAFC(as I'm even better at a computer than i am with a wrench). not to pick on you at all, but i think that my t3/t04e and spearco IC will keep me happy to the 300hp level and beyond.
Believe me, if it weren't for you, orion and all the others who did it with a grand, i wouldn't even be thinking about it. i thought i was looking at 10k for a turbo system.
I'm buying a new turbo, however, and going with an SAFC(as I'm even better at a computer than i am with a wrench). not to pick on you at all, but i think that my t3/t04e and spearco IC will keep me happy to the 300hp level and beyond.
Believe me, if it weren't for you, orion and all the others who did it with a grand, i wouldn't even be thinking about it. i thought i was looking at 10k for a turbo system.
Jonny 290 wrote:I'm buying a new turbo, however, and going with an SAFC(as I'm even better at a computer than i am with a wrench). not to pick on you at all, but i think that my t3/t04e and spearco IC will keep me happy to the 300hp level and beyond.
just make sure you've got some sort of ignition control, or you'll be at 28deg BTDC with 14psi dancing with detonation :p
Definitely go with the S-AFC if you can!! Going with the ability to fine tune is definitely no insult to me. I've got the S-AFC already (not gonna have it for long), but I've been a nice guy and kept selling my extra MAFs to my friends for like $20 a peice (2 J30's and 1 z32 >.<) That said: I want a TEC3 :p
i believe the reason in using a dummy maf is this. in order for the real maf to only see %50 is the other side has to flow the exact same amount of air. now can you figure out exactly how much air fits in a maf? maybe but it might be too much to risk and alot easier just to pop one of those suckers in. i hope that you can understand what im trying to say. correct me if im wrong.
Just an update here--I'm in the process of acquiring a dead S13 MAF over the weekend, and I'll be playing with a few sheet metal plenums next week.
I've got a really neat idea and will be taking pics as I go.
Silly question: Does it matter which way the MAF is oriented with respect to the air stream? I don't see why it would matter.
I've got a really neat idea and will be taking pics as I go.
Silly question: Does it matter which way the MAF is oriented with respect to the air stream? I don't see why it would matter.