Cartridge <> Handguncflanagan wrote:Ok well the 9mm in general is a reliably handgun.
9mm is a great round to start with, but I wouldn't say .40 is horrible. It's not 10mm Auto. Either way JHP 9mm's seems like it should be enough in most situations. Also, if you're looking to practice, you'll benefit from the cheaper ammunition.Nismo_Freak wrote:James is an idiot for suggesting .40 to a new shooter. That round is a bit hot and would just lead to flinching issues. It's harder to control than .45, 9mm, etc.
bobotech wrote:...However shooting a semi auto shotgun with 3 inch slugs as fast as you can DOES hurt.
All this because they don't want their citizens armed. Kind of hard to cast off a repressive government when they are the only ones with guns (oh, and the criminals who are going to get them anyway).Desmoquattro wrote:You think Cali is bad?
I'm going to get my restricted firearms certification here in Canada so I can get a handgun for target shooting. I need to take a course (optional) and then write a test and pay 80$ to the government. If I pass the test I get a 5 year possession and aquisition license for restricted firearms.
Restricted firearms are full sized handguns, revolvers, short barreled rifles, and automatic rifles permanently converted to semi-auto. Max capacity of a handgun is 10 rounds, max capacity for a rifle is 5.
PROHIBITED firearms are small handguns (which includes almost all .22 - .25s, it's because they are easy to conceal), auto weapons, submachine guns whether auto or not. You cannot get these unless you work for the police or military.
It gets better.
Once I get the gun I register it at my place of residence. For the gun to leave my place of residence, under any circumstances, I need to apply for a transport permit. If I make regular trips to the range, I get a 3 year permit to take it to a specific location. This isn't a carry-concel permit, it's a permit to physically move my gun outside the door of my house, and it's supposed to be in a locked case with a locked trigger at all times when moving it.
I'm probably picking up a Norinco 1911 Government, they are about 330$ Canadian and get good reviews for accuracy and reliability. Fit and finish isn't great but for that price I can get it custom 'smithed. Too bad you guys can't buy Chinese guns, they are cheap cheap cheap and not that bad. They make SIG, Tokarev and CZ replicas as well as .45 and 9x19 1911s. Most are under 300$. I'd like a Beretta 92fs but they are hard to come by up here unless you find an ex-law enforcement one.
Shoot 9mm in a compact handgun, then .40 ... it's a noticeable difference in muzzle flip, especially if you don't know how to properly fire the weapon (weaver stance). The 230 gr. .45 operates on a low chamber pressure, so the overall felt recoil is soft. My .357 Sig has much more pronounced kick than my .45 in the same compact frame.Mr1der wrote:damnit Alan...don't be a parabellum fanboy.
depending on the size of the shooter, the .40 is a powderpuff.
recoil is marginally harder than a 9mm depending on the gun's design.
to say it's harder to control than a .45 makes me wonder how many .40S&W's you've shot.
What you're hearing about the 9mm is bunk. Pick a proper load (as with ANY caliber) and you're going to be good. Yes, overpenetration is likely if you're using ball ammo, but no one uses ball for anything but practice. I carried a 9mm Beretta with me for years into places where no rational person would ever choose to go and I never felt insecure with it. Why? Because I knew that I could hit whatever I wanted on account of the amount of practice I could afford to do and a proper JHP +P+ round in the chamber/magazine.Absolushun wrote:Alot of info in this here thread. I havent ruled out the 9mm, but alot of people seem to put it down simply because it doesnt have alot of stopping power, and because of that, im not really looking into it. Also, I read that 9mm's are penetrating alot more, so im afraid that if i shoot, its going to end up outside the house which i seriously dont want. This gun is mainly going to be used as house defense...but c'mon now its a gun, you're SUPPOSE to have fun with it, so of course im going to take it out and shoot things with it. Im also looking into the springfield xd, but i still have to make time to actually go to a gun shop and handle these guns myself...continue with the thread please I need to learn
9mm, .40, and .45 will go through about 8 sheets of sheetrock. Figure two sheets per wall, and yeah, it's not hard for a bullet to go through a house.Absolushun wrote:Alot of info in this here thread. I havent ruled out the 9mm, but alot of people seem to put it down simply because it doesnt have alot of stopping power, and because of that, im not really looking into it. Also, I read that 9mm's are penetrating alot more, so im afraid that if i shoot, its going to end up outside the house which i seriously dont want. This gun is mainly going to be used as house defense...but c'mon now its a gun, you're SUPPOSE to have fun with it, so of course im going to take it out and shoot things with it. Im also looking into the springfield xd, but i still have to make time to actually go to a gun shop and handle these guns myself...continue with the thread please I need to learn
Any paricular reason your looking for one?Absolushun wrote:Is there a good website that breaks down info like which guns are reliable, with great handling, and ammo info? New to the concept, and I've noticed that there are some enthusiasts in here. Looking to buy one. Particularly a hand gun
thats one reason why i want the laser scope so i can at least try to get him in the knee cap or arm and not in the trunk of the body, but im thinking that if i get charged with the laser for killing the thief that i'll be worse off. i dunno, guns are iffy here in cali. its why i sleep with a knife under my bed for now and i have bats lying around the house, but what if he is long range you know? At least you guys let me know about the 9mm and i will keep that in mind.cns_spike wrote:Remember , OP because you're in California the law will be more harsh if you actually kill someone in self defense.
It would be a good idea to see what the LEOs in your area carry as far as round type/size. As there have been many cases where someone killed a robber in self defense and was prosecuted because of their round choice being "overkill".
There was a man accused of this because he shot a robber with a .40 Federal Protection Hydroshock JHP in his home. His attorney blew so hardcore that the man was actually prosecuted sucessfully. What was even more distrubing was that the State Troopers acually used that round. I believe the charge was something to the tune of excessive lethal force. Don't remember the charge exactly.
Thank God I live in Texas.
Yep, at the point the gun comes out your sole intention should be to destroy whatever you point it at. There has to be no doubt in your mind.bobotech wrote:You don't ever have a gun or shoot a gun at a bad guy with the intent of maiming or hurting.
You have a gun to defend your life if you feel you are in peril and the bad guy is coming after you. You shoot for the torso and no other place. The torso is the biggest mass of target and has the best chance of hitting. You are aiming to kill, not to injure or maim. People on drugs can do amazing things when they should be dead from a gunshot wound. You don't want to be on the receiving end of that drugged out bad guy.
Alan, where in the hell do you get this? Have you really been that oblivious to the fact that different loads will penetrate different mediums regardless of caliber? If potential overpenetration is an issue, then load your pistol with a frangible round, such as a Glaser or Mag Safe. These are not new inventions and they are incredibly effective.Nismo_Freak wrote:
9mm, .40, and .45 will go through about 8 sheets of sheetrock. Figure two sheets per wall, and yeah, it's not hard for a bullet to go through a house.
Number one, if you cannot come to terms with the potential for killing someone in self defense, you have NO BUSINESS keeping a lethal weapon for said purpose. Firearms are inherently lethal and if you use one for self defense in a non-lethal scenario, or if you act as if lethal force is not justified, you will be crucified in court, guaranteed. Your intent, and let me be perfectly clear about this, is to STOP, not to kill. Killing an armed home invader may be a side effect of stopping his felonious actions, but that is not the intent of self defense.Absolushun wrote:
thats one reason why i want the laser scope so i can at least try to get him in the knee cap or arm and not in the trunk of the body, but im thinking that if i get charged with the laser for killing the thief that i'll be worse off.
I might be gay and get rubber bullets if they're available, but im still going to go to the range. Anyone have personal opinions on rubber bullets? Are they available?
This "mom's cocktail" sounds like an incredibly BAD idea. A prosecutor will tear you apart in court if you use handloads for self defense. Spike had it correct when he said to choose the same loading as local law enforcement.MaxFNPower wrote:If you do go revolver, I have a little thing i like to call "Mom's Cocktail" for use in a .357, 2 parts bird shot, 2 parts .38 special, and 2 parts .357 Magnum. Its the load out I give mom for home defense, the instructions are shoot until they fall then run like hell. If they peruse, repeat process. Another good load is 3 .38 specials and 3 .357 magnums.
The Box-O-Truth tests. Of course that was using JHPs / FMJ ammo.Repo Man wrote:Alan, where in the hell do you get this? Have you really been that oblivious to the fact that different loads will penetrate different mediums regardless of caliber? If potential overpenetration is an issue, then load your pistol with a frangible round, such as a Glaser or Mag Safe. These are not new inventions and they are incredibly effective.
Interesting experiment, but hardly scientific. What brand JHP? Bullet weight? Jacket thickness plays a role here as well in that a thinner jacketed bullet will more likely expand than one with a thicker jacket. How many rounds did he fire? Etc, etc. Like he said, the .22 LR penetrated quite a bit, so it's safe to say that indeed any round can overpentrate. However, doing the same test with frangibles will yield a completely different result.Nismo_Freak wrote:
The Box-O-Truth tests. Of course that was using JHPs / FMJ ammo.
I'm not oblivious, I'm just stating what the pistol is capable of with standard ammo. I don't personally have a problem with it. I load JHP's and am aware of whats behind the target, otherwise I wouldn't be shooting with a .357 Sig which is a proven penetrator (hehehehhe).
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
Notice he states that JHPs have zero expansion. Pretty interesting tidbit.
Big ones that hold a lot of bullets.JimmyMethod wrote:I'm going to the range in a few hours, any suggestions on fun guns to rent?
Desert Eagle in 50AE.JimmyMethod wrote:I'm going to the range in a few hours, any suggestions on fun guns to rent?
They don't have the 31 round mag, I do enjoy shooting the 17, though. Someday... I want to fire an 18. And when it happens, the skys will part and all will be good.bobotech wrote:Glock 17 with the 31 round magazine.
I'd feel way too cheesy.bobotech wrote:Desert Eagle in 50AE.
It is *cheesey* but thats part of its appeal. It is nothing more than a image gun however shooting it with the 50AE is rather fun. Such a large round with so much powder makes it a "blast" to shoot.JimmyMethod wrote:
I'd feel way too cheesy.
I was thinking along the lines of a Steyr M1-A in .40, an XD in .40, and maybe a Kimber Custom, just because I've never shot a 1911.