Guns for Texas school's teachers

[Qwerty1942]

Quote »Page last updated at 01:06 GMT, Saturday, 16 August 2008 02:06 UK

Teachers in one part of the US state of Texas are to be allowed to carry concealed firearms when the new school term opens this month.

The school superintendent in Harrold district said the move was intended to protect staff and pupils should there be any gun attacks on its sole campus.

Teachers would have to undertake crisis management training first, the superintendent, David Thweatt, said.

In recent years the US has seen a number of fatal school shootings.

Trustees had approved the policy and parents had not objected, Mr Thweatt said.

"When the federal government started making schools gun-free zones, that's when all of these shootings started," he wrote on the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's web site.

Mr Thweatt said he believed the school's proximity to a large, busy motorway could make it a target.

"If something were to happen here, I'd much rather be calling a parent to tell them that their child is OK because we were able to protect them," Mr Thweatt said.

Texas outlaws the presence of firearms at schools unless individual institutions allow them.[/quote]I agree that guns are a deterrent. However, what if someone is crazy enough to try to shoot up the school anyway? Crossfire WILL be a problem. Imagine the phone call to a parent notifying them that their child was killed due to crossfire and not because of the perp.

[MastaYu]

true crossfire would be a problem

[ElementalFiend]

This is a poor solution to the problem. They are putting lives in the hands of people who teach for a living instead of leaving it in the hands of people who prevent crime for a living.

I lived and went to school in North Texas and there was a minimum of one armed on-duty police officer at the school at all times. It didn't hurt that the officers they chose for this duty were almost always body builders or just physically large.

I don't understand why hiring police officers is not an option for this school.

[Qwerty1942]

Seriously, guns and school should NEVER mix. I was having an argument with some guy at a bar about this very subject, and when he mentioned "the teachers are gonna be able to shoot back and protect their students" I mentioned "oh yeah, what about crossfire?" and he shut right up.

[Cold_Zero]

This is a poor solution to the problem. They are putting lives in the hands of people who teach for a living instead of leaving it in the hands of people who prevent crime for a living.

Yes, because putting your life in the hands of police that are a good 10-15 minutes away (as is the case for most schools) is a much better solution. I guess with the leave it to the professional mentality; we should also bar airline pilots from carrying firearms and security guards.

I know this is an issue right now in Kansas where a student led group is trying to petition the state to allow students with the proper license to Conceal Carry on campus. I guess the frustration out there is with the Universities’ approach to "improve security" on campus and it being viewed as a joke. While I understand the hesitation for allowing firearms on campus, there is really no evidence that shows that since the Safe Schools Act in the mid 1990’s banned guns in schools at the federal level that crime on campuses or schools has gone down. I believe that this act was really passed in order to make it easier for law enforcement to pick up drug dealers on and around schools. Obviously a group of people who are already breaking the law by selling illegal drugs and have no regard for the laws of the land.

What I resent movie theaters and private businesses are the post signs that state you are not allowed to enter the establishment with firearms. Yet the business owner makes no attempt to guarantee my personal safety while I am in their business. It's a joke, they expect that criminals will see a sign with a pistol and a circle with a cross through it and think, "I better not carry my firearm into that place, the owner really means it." The only thing that sign does is disarm lawful citizens. And if something ever happens while I am in their business, you better believe I will sue the **** out of the owners.

As this movement goes forward you will see the anti-gun lobby ratchet up the rhetoric. They will start to say things like, “its will be like the Wild West in our grade schools’ or ‘blood will be running on the floors of our schools.” Trust me; we heard the same thing from the DC Police, the DC Mayor and the anti gun Lobbies about repealing the DC Gun Ban. They insinuated that if the Supreme Court overturned the DC Gun Ban, that children would be allowed to carry firearms in schools. How ridiculous. Children are already (legally) kept from owning or possessing firearms by state and federal laws, but NO child is allowed to conceal carry a firearm in any state in this country.

Quote »I lived and went to school in North Texas and there was a minimum of one armed on-duty police officer at the school at all times. It didn't hurt that the officers they chose for this duty were almost always body builders or just physically large.

I don't understand why hiring police officers is not an option for this school.[/quote]I don't understand why turning a school into a prison or a police state IS the answer to this problem. I know when I went to school, we didnt have metal detectors and cops on the campus. Yet, I carried knife on me every single day of High School and no one flipped out. I would much rather fix the problems of crime being perpetrated in school rather than building up a police state in our schools and having a false sense of security.

[srellim234]

I personally like the deterrent effect that not knowing who's armed and who isn't can have. That same movie theater? Think the criminal that wants to survive the crime is going to pull his gun out if there's a possibility that 50 people will return fire? The person hell-bent on suicide will still do it, but he'll be taking fewer innocent people with him.

I'd like to see a similar, limited allowance of guns on airplanes and eliminate a lot of the expensive security junk we're doing now. Allow sworn law enforcement officers who've been through proper training courses and certified to load their off duty weapons with "plane-friendly" ammo and bring them on. A potential hijacker would never know whether he's clear or he's got an armed police convention on board.

Not very scientific, I know, but an interesting concept.

[Cold_Zero]

And I think that is the mentality that these students in Kansas are trying to enact. Very similar to Kennesaw Georgia where every home is required to own and be able to operate a fire arm.bud

[ElementalFiend]

Yes, because putting your life in the hands of police that are a good 10-15 minutes away (as is the case for most schools) is a much better solution. I guess with the leave it to the professional mentality; we should also bar airline pilots from carrying firearms and security guards.

I don't think you actually read my post. I was talking about police officers hired to work at the school. This is common and seems to work. Unless you're talking about a college campus (which is a different subject IMO) it would not take 10-15 minutes to respond to gunfire. Not in any of the high school I have seen in Texas, anyways. What do you mean, "as is the case for most schools"? Where do you get this information?

None of this is related to airlines or armed security work. Those are entirely different situations that each require entirely different solutions.

Don't get me wrong, I love guns. I would hate to see them banned. I love knowing that I can protect myself. But do I trust the aim and resolve of "Mrs. Wilson, an 8th grade math teacher" when it comes to my niece and nephew? Hell no.

If a police officer sees one child trying to kill another he will react and take him down. Police officers don't have to think about it, they are trained to react. Can you honestly say that your kids art teacher would do the same?

More importantly do you trust that he/she will hit their mark should they fire off a nervous round in defense? Keep in mind teachers are generally seated in a position facing the entire class.

Yes it may take an officer a minute or two to run from one part of a school to another. But that is a guaranteed response. I simply cannot trust the fighting response of a school teacher.

I don't understand why turning a school into a prison or a police state IS the answer to this problem.

This is a gross exaggeration. One or two police officers is in no way a "prison or a police state". In the two high schools I attended, one of which had metal detectors at the entrances, I never felt or heard from other students feelings of being imprisoned. It was there for our protection and we all knew it.

Where you live you might have brought a knife to school as a tool to cut rope or whatever. Many kids did at my later high school as well (which had an on duty officer). There were never problems. But in my earlier high school (with the detectors) kids brought them to stab other kids. It was nice to know that it was that much harder for someone to smuggle in a weapon.

Hiring police officers or giving teachers guns is not the solution to this problem. The point is to deter and defend should the situation arrise. Kids shooting up schools is a problem on societal scale that, as far as I know, nobody has a good answer for.
Modified by ElementalFiend at 6:27 AM 8/29/2008