Guides left in the oil-pan --update!

[boomstriker]

After pulling all the rod and main bearings in the Q motor, I see that not only were they starved for oil but the trash that was in the pan made it through the filter and into the engine.

The bearings all had gouges in them and small bits of plastic were behind the mains in the journals' oil slots.Digging further I found the 3 oil squirters for the chains were clogged with bits of black plastic.I blew air into one of the hydraulic chain tensioner feeds and more crap blew out of the galley. You guessed it, more plastic guides.I assumed the lifters were noisy because they were not getting good pressure. Now that I see the trash made it past the filter, the whole engine requires a complete tear-down to steam clean all the oil galleys in the heads and the block- days of extra work. With so many check-valves, restricters and componants controlled by oil pressure on this engine, it would be a stupid gamble to put it back together at this point without a thorough cleaning. I can only assume that the by-pass valve opened with a restricted filter or that a filter failed at some point and let the small pieces into the engine.I asked around the local Dealers to see what their policy was on changing the guides and leaving the pieces in the pan hoping the strainer and filter would catch it all. They said if they couldn't account for all of the old guides behind the cover, the pan came off. Grubbs must not not follow the same policy.

Just a little fair warning.... If the works' been done on your car, without the pan drop, you might have something like this to look forward to.

Kirk

[HeavyDuty]

As cheap as the JDM engines are, have you considered a swap instead of cleaning & reassembling? I bet you could get one for $1200-$1400.

I bought a Skyline (clip) engine from one of the current Ebay listings (Japanese Engines, Inc.) & it was cleaner than represented. Also a couple of Honda swaps & a Mitsubishi, all in VGC.

fwiw, sorry to hear about the extent of the damage, someone was playing "beat the clock"

[PalmerWMD]

I would also consider a used engine if I was you.Sometimes decent ones can be had I godd a great one for $1500 ( but that was lucky decent ones are $1500-2500 with some careful buying, IMO)

Fred..

[maxnix]

I, on the other hand, say if you have the facilities, the resources and the skill, then full speed ahead, sir! Better to know what you put back into your car than to wonder what will fail next.

[Q45tech]

You would be surprised at how many owners are resistive to the extra $500 a pan drop and clean requires.

Of course if the guides have failed who knows whether the damage has already been done.

The chain wear into the oil pump body and all the metal that releases...............indicates many don't get them fixed fast.

That said we have never had an engine failure [that we know of] after a guide replacement when the pan was cleaned and the pickup reverse flushed.

Many have driven a hundred thousand miles since the 80-100k change out.

"As cheap as the JDM engines are, have you considered a swap instead of cleaning & reassembling"

You still have to reseal the valve covers, replace the hoses and knock sensor, plugs, water pump, REPLACE THE CHAIN GUIDES and clean the pan on a JDM engine, swap the exhaust .

You easily spend more R&R ing the JDM engine than it cost to acquire it.

[HeavyDuty]

"You still have to reseal the valve covers, replace the hoses and knock sensor, plugs, water pump, REPLACE THE CHAIN GUIDES and clean the pan on a JDM engine, swap the exhaust .

You easily spend more R&R ing the JDM engine than it cost to acquire it."

Yes, but the above items are incidentals, aren't they? Would you not also do those items to yours that's damaged in addition to the machine shop parts, labor, and downtime?

If the late model engine came with metal guides, do you still have to change them as a precaution?

[PalmerWMD]

[quote=" HeavyDuty [BIf the late model engine came with metal guides, do you still have to change them as a precaution? [/quote]

real late model engines that have the new style guides (late 93's) that fit 90-93, are a minority among take -out engine's and difficult to identify w/o removing the front cover.

Fred..

[HeavyDuty]

You had a swap done right? Does that mean 90-93 (89-93 JDM) engines are of one design and not interchangeable with a 94-95 USDM or JDM?

[boomstriker]

I don't even consider reman's or salvage yards anymore for engine changes that are this difficult, especially when it's an engine that has issues like guides. I've been burned too many times. I'm not going to spend $1500 on something that may be no better than what I have, or that's got to be checked out anyway. Their warranty doesn't cover my time to change it again.I'm going to be in it for the R&R labor anyway and the parts total only $500. This way I know it's right and don't have to worry when I hit the key.Maybe now I'll port and polish the heads.

Kirk

Oh yeah Q45tech---The front of the oil pump is butchered up from the chain so all that went through too.

[Q451990]

Does that mean 90-93 (89-93 JDM) engines are of one design and not interchangeable with a 94-95 USDM or JDM?

The 90-93 engines (US and JDM) are different than the 94-95 engines (US and JDM) - they'd bolt up but have different sensors that won't hook up to the ECU harness. I assume the sensors are of a different physical design that required a different head design, preventing a sensor swap as well.

Heath

[PalmerWMD]

HeavyDuty:

To add to what Heath ( correctly) said.

Every other year or so someone shows up who claims to have done a 94/95 into a 90-93 ( or vice versa).

Often this message is accompanied by drivebaility problems.

I think I once heard of one that was successfully swapped beteen marks, but the amount of work, custom harness etc is probably only worth it if you can get a good engine for free or nearly free.

Fred..

[TgduMg]

The 90-93 engines (US and JDM) are different than the 94-95 engines (US and JDM) - they'd bolt up but have different sensors that won't hook up to the ECU harness. I assume the sensors are of a different physical design that required a different head design, preventing a sensor swap as well.

Heath

Wish that we could get these guys to do stuff for us "Danisiti" aficionados! www.speedscenewiring.com :drone:

[maxnix]

Don't know about Danistis, but the later ( and probably the earlier ones also) G50 Q45 have a very sophisticated LAN type network, not just a bunch of dedicated copper pairs carrying voltages to each device. The car would be even heavier, and controls less sophisticated without these computer controlled networks.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

[TgduMg]

That said, I wish there was an affordable way that the ECU along with the LAN network could be reprogrammed to properly function with the sensors when doing any kind of Nissan engine swap without any of the associated drivabilty problems mentioned by Fred for us "Danisiti-aficionados" (Datsun-Nissan-Infiniti Lovers). Screw the Twin Turbo J30. Enter the Crawford Plenumed and ProCharged VQ35 for the J35 Super Sport sedan. Whale tail and all. Ok, back to reality. Maybe Jim Wolf and his genius in residence Clark Steppler already has something available to soothe those 90-93 to 94-95 VH45 swap ailments? But what would it cost?

[maxnix]

Maybe Jim Wolfe and his genius in residence Clark Steppler already has something available to soothe those 90-93 to 94-95 VH45 swap ailments? But what would it cost?

Probably about 1 - 3 years plus attorney fees.

Swapping an earlier VH45DE into a later G50 chassis would be a violation of federal law.

Don't hold your breath.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

[Q45tech]

There are hundreds of JDM takeout engines available most seem to be 90-93 .........the local JDM guys always have 2-3 x 3 guys, well maybe there are only 50 in US at each moment.

They just are not selling anymore as we haven't done one [90-93]in almost a year. Sure we have done 4 94-96 this year but even those were for special people.

10+ year old cars rarely get new engines worth 2-3 times what the car is worth.

A 94-95 engine can be put in a 90-93 but the cost for ecu and harness and labor might wash with what doing the chain guides wouls cost plus another $1,000...........why?

[TgduMg]

Swapping an earlier VH45DE into a later G50 chassis would be a violation of federal law.

Don't hold your breath.

And who would want to with the possibility of getting an engine with bad guides? But what about swapping a later VH45 into an earlier G50 chassis? And of course, we all know that no one here would want to violate any federal law by doing any illegal mods to their car, oops, there goes the label on my mattress... :help

[TgduMg]

Sure we have done 4 94-96 this year but even those were for special people. A 94-95 engine can be put in a 90-93 but the cost for ecu and harness and labor might wash with what doing the chain guides wouls cost plus another $1,000...........why?

I'd say just for the love for the car, that is if you could afford it. Otherwise we could all be driving grey Toyota Corollas... The Infiniti Q45 G50. A special automobile, for special people Enjoy The Ride...Danisiti 1

[HeavyDuty]

So, 95 motor into a 90, do-able, but expensive if not DIY with access to the donor car for harness & ECU & knew the history & actual mileage of the donor was far less than one up to 5 years older.

Makes sense, Thanks all

[Jesda]

Cars are not practical, by their nature. They are expenses from day one. You can drive yourself mad trying to justify repairs and expenses here and there, or just enjoy it!

Death is inevitable. Maximize your joy on your way to the grave.

-Jesda

[PalmerWMD]

Dennis:

So prices on those 90-93 engines must be dropping?

Fred..

[elwesso]

The only way you can justify spending this much money on a car (g50 Q) is its a hobby or a restoration project......

[TgduMg]

The differences that I have discovered about the 90-93 to 94-95 VH45 over the of years browsing this forum is

1. [/list=1]The 94+VH45 had the improved chain guide design using metal instead of plastic (still need to keep that oil changed though)
   1. [/list=1]Used a different style fuel injector (reduced clogging problems and maybe to help emissions)
      1. [/list=1]Different heads with redesigned combustion chamber to help meet emissions and I guess they lost the sodium filled valves
         1. [/list=1]And I think the newer VH45 actually use fewer sensors than the 90-93 (maybe something about that LAN network mannix spoke about)
            1. [/list=1]Nothing known about a different block, oil pump, crankshaft, rods, cam timing, etc.
               1. [/list=1]I knew in the summer of 95 that the 96 VH45 would lose Variable Valve Timing and gain OBDII (Though I have talked to some techs that said many Nissan engines actually went to OBDII as early as the 94 model year such as the VH45 and that the KA24 got it in 95. But I didn't say that I believed them) VVT returns on VH41 for MY97
                  1. [/list=1]And I'm curious about any information on the more stringent emission standards for the 94 model year.
                     1. [/list=1]Any corrections to the statements above are expected and welcomed... [quote=" Jesda
                        1. [/list=1]Cars are not practical, by their nature. They are expenses from day one. You can drive yourself mad by trying to justify repairs and expenses here and there, or just enjoy it!
                           1. [/list=1]Death is inevitable. Maximize your joy on your way to the grave.[/quote] Amen Jesda. I was being practical and economical when I decided to replace the Q with a 4 cylinder Altima. Practical is no fun. If this forum existed back when I had my Q, I'd still have my Q. Bought Altima for peace of mind. Saw a couple of Q engines that were destroyed and I wanted to play it safe. Now I still want to play it safe, but with a smartly modded VH45......Danisiti 1