GTR pricing rumor

[adren77]

As we all know, Nissan officially announced that the MSRP of the new GTR will be $69-71k. I know a guy that works in the biggest Nissan dealership in Chicago area, and he told me that due to the limited production, the dealerships will be able to jack up the price in the range of $100k+. This seems like a reasonable argument considering GTR's performance, and limited production. He also said that the dealerships had the right to cancel people's orders (for ~$70k) in case something like this happens, so they can sell it at a higher price.

Today I went to the Chicago auto show (and saw a GTR live!) and the Nissan representative told me that they are expecting to sell 1500 GTRs the first year. He also confirmed that they too have heard these rumors about the GTR pricing. He said that in the neighborhoods like Beverly Hills, the car is expected to sell as high as $250k. He said they don't know anything for sure until the car goes on sale early in June.

I'm not really sure what to think about it. It doesn't seem logical that Nissan would invest so much in the R&D of a new car that outperforms any competition, and then sell it for dirt cheap so that the dealers can suck all the profits.

Does anybody know if 1500 cars per year is relatively high or low to what other cars sell for? The way I see it, not many people can afford to buy Ferraris, 911's, etc... so getting a GTR that outperforms these cars is once in a lifetime opportunity to drive a "supercar." This is the only reason why the GTR is so appealing to us. It is marketable in bot the rich people community, as well as us regular schmoes who dream about driving fast cars. With such high demand, why would they limit the production? Is it possible that 1500 is Nissan's limit on manufacturing?

[Beancooker]

Spoke with the sales manager here in Olympia at the Nissan dealership. He said that theirs were MSRP $80k, but there were a few guys that were willing to pay upside of $30k in "dealer stock" fees. So yeah, the two that will be shipped to Bruce Titus Nissan, will go for $110k+. Sucks, huh...

[jdshift]

Around here it's going to run about 100K, can't wait to see one once it hits the floor room!! But I could see it going for more easy.........we shall wait and see.

[Jacko3]

adren77:

Nissan has mastered the art of underground marketing sales. I am sure 1500 is the official number they will produce, unless, they feel a need to ramp up profits, if their annual profits do not make Wallstreet happy.

Since Nissan uses market based pricing, the market will determine the actual price. As with all Nissan products or cars, the first consignments will sell at a high price. Subsequently, the price will drop.

I will wait for a 7 year old GT-R before I own one. Maybe the price will fall to $35K by then, if another auto manufacturer does not come up with something better.

[rn79870]

Don't worry too much. The Supply/Demand thing will work it out just fine. Once the ability to have the first GT R in town passes, people with 100K will be looking for better bargains.

[Beezer]

The dealer's will have to recoup their retooling investments so I don't see why they wouldn't sell their allotment to the highest bidder(s). The margin between invoice and MSRP alone won't do it.

[rn79870]

The dealer's will have to recoup their retooling investments...

I think you may be confusing the dealer with the manufacturer. The dealer has no investment in the manufacturing process, the markup is basically dealer greed, not cost recovery.

You're right about the highest bidder though, because the dealer would rather have a limited availability car sitting on his showroom floor attracting traffic to the dealership. Once they have a few on the lot the song will change. (in my opinion)

[joe603]

This is total crap...why not market the car like the vette and boost production numbers. If they want to totally destroy domestic brands, they need to have a full-on assault! That being said, I'm hoping for a 50-60k version...maybe without the all-wheel drive and a normal manual.

[Q45tech]

The dealer will need about $18-23,000 in specialty tools and pay to send the master tech to special 2 week school before being allowed to sell the first one. Does the dealer hedge his bets and pay to send 2 techs?

Say the up front cost will be $33-45,000 divided amongst those sold.

So something like $25k extra per car sold would be fair at least for the first 2.

[Beezer]

RN - each dealer must invest in retooling their dealership to service/repair the GTR - basically installing a separate bay for the car and training their techs.

[rn79870]

Beezer..That makes sense. Come to think about it, somebody has to pay to train all the techs and buy all the tools.

[joe603]

Tools...come on guys, don't buy into it! Its a car...the only tool they might need is a diagnostic computer, or a specific program added to their current one. A separate bay....I don't think so.

Tech training should be no different than any new design, aside from the "mandatory" Japan trip...sounds like promo stuff or for the individual dealers to me. The most they would get from the trip would be key procedures that they could probably send in text/power point anyway.

The fact of the matter is that this is the "GT-R". It has a cult following, and many fans that appreciate the performance of the lineage. They are purposefully limiting release numbers to make it even more so...

Before the G35 came out, the Nissan Skyline had a similar following. The US brand of Infiniti made it more mainstream. This is exactly what Infinity/Nissan should do with the GT-R line.

[Beezer]

But if you think about it, the GTR has nothing in common with any existing Nissan/Infiniti car sold in NA, apart from the awd technology (someone please correct me if I am wrong). Its an entirely different platform. The computer equipment alone will probably be in the tens of thousands.

[Sentientbydesign]

I agree with Joe. The car might be special, but not that special.

And if any of you buy one for over $80k, I'm going to then because you helped promote greedy dealer profits.

[Focusedintntions]

The GTR needs a special bay b/c its wider than all other nissans and won't fit into a standard lift. I saw in person at the DC auto show...very nice, pictures hardly do it justice. Also i read that Nissan is going to be limiting dealers on how much they can charge b/c they don't want price gouging.....

check out this article...

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...imw=Y

"We are taking steps to let the dealers know that marking up the car is not a good thing," said Nissan North America Spokesman Darryll Harrison. "We're trying to take steps to curb excessive markups."

Harrison said the automaker is requiring dealership management staff, such as the dealer principal, to conduct all GT-R transactions. "We're not saying salespeople are bad, but management is closer to the day-to-day operations of the dealership, and they don't work on commission," Harrison noted.

Dealers will also be required to file all GT-R paperwork, such as factory orders for the GT-R, through Nissan North America's regional sales offices, which will oversee the sales prices of the car and provide "counsel" in case of price gouging. It is unusual for dealers to have to turn over orders to regional offices for oversight.

[rn79870]

When the 2005 Mustang GT came out, I went to the dealer to look at them. They had one, a black one with a dealer markup of several thousand dollars in the price. As I looked at it, another couple apparently were interested in it. The @$$hole salesman told me that he would turn in my bid if it was at least a thousand dollars higher than the already marked up price on the car. I told him that I wasn't stupid enough to fall for that and left. I ended up waiting a year and by then, they would deal.

I'll bet the GT R supply exceeds demand within a year and the price comes down on it. Frankly, for $70,000, it better come with 2 Hooter's girls as standard equipment.

[Q45tech]

"The certified dealers also had to invest in an upgrade of their facility, down to such details as providing larger lifts to accommodate the low and wide body of the GT-R."

"Dec 7, 2007Dealership Requirements of the R35 GT-RIn order for a dealership to carry a GT-R they must meet the following requirements:

New ToolsSeveral new diagnostic and service tools will be necessary to support GT-R. These include:• Consult 3 software & attachments• Brake Caliper Wrench• Gouge-resistant gasket scraper.

The cost of these tools was included in the estimated amounts described in last week’s letter, and will be incorporated into the Initial certification cost listed on each participant dealer’s agreement. In addition, as with other vehicles, it may become necessary to procure additional required tools which may be developed during the product life cycle. These tools will be released, if necessary, through the Nissan essential tool program.Existing/Available ToolsIn addition to upcoming essential tools, certified GT-R dealerships must be equipped with readily available equipment that has not traditionally fallen under the scope of the essential tool program.

Alignment Equipment – A certified GT-R dealership must maintain an alignment rack that meets the required tolerances of being capable of consistent alignment settings to within:• +/- 1 mm front toe,• +/- 10’ (minutes) in Front Camber• +/- 20’ (minutes) in Front Caster

A wide array of alignment equipment can meet these specifications. However, it will be necessary to verify that a certified GT-R dealer’s equipment is capable and calibrated accordingly. Examples of equipment that will meet these requirements include:•Hunter R811 series console with DSP600 series sensors or any current Hunter Winaligner with HS401 sensors. (Both are recommended and validated by Nissan’s Techmate program)•Others: John Bean V3D1 Ultra or V3D3 Arago, Hofmann Geoliner GL-680

In addition, the alignment lift must be capable of accommodating a low clearance vehicle. GTR’s clearance will be 5” at the front spoiler with an 11 degree maximum approach angle. Consequently an in-floor alignment lift is best. If an above ground lift is used, ramps must be long enough to accommodate. All Hunter RX and 4 post models can be made to meet this specification using auxiliary stage 2 approach ramp extensions as detailed in the Hunter rack accessory brochure.

If your dealership has alignment equipment other than what is listed here, please confirm the tolerance capabilities meet or exceed the minimum requirements to support GT-R. Brand equipment is secondary to ensuring the equipment is capable of measuring to these tight tolerances and calibrated correctly. Verification of equipment performance and calibration will be required for certification.

Access to Nitrogen – This vehicle will be shipped from the factory with nitrogen filled tires. Nissan does not specify an essential tool for this purpose. However, each certified dealer musthave access to nitrogen to ensure vehicles in inventory can be maintained in factory condition for delivery to the customer. This could include a nitrogen generator system, bottled nitrogen gas or access to a reliable sublet source for the purpose of maintaining tire inflation pressure.

Special SuppliesGT-R is engineered with many new and unique Powertrain design features.As a result, only certain chemicals are authorized for use in GT-R. They are as follows:• Engine Oil – Mobil 1 only 0w-40 or 5w-40 (this requirement is key to protect the plasma coating on cylinder walls)• A/T Oil – Proprietary Blend developed specifically for GT-R, to be ordered thru NNA PDC only• Final Drive Oil – Castrol 75w140 only• Brake Fluid – Proprietary DOT-4 Blend developed specifically for GT-R, to be ordered thru NNA PDC only

Optional Process - TiresGT-R will be equipped with unique run-flat tires manufactured by Bridgestone (summer tire) and Dunlop (all-weather tire) mounted on specially designed 20-inch alloy wheels. These tire/wheel combinations will require the most modern equipment and techniques to remove/install tires from/on the wheels. Dealers who participate in the Dealer Tire program and have the proper equipment and training to service these wheel/tire combinations, may choose to keep this business in-house. However, a dealer can still become a certified GT-R dealership without tire service capabilities. In these cases, a factory Bridgestone and Dunlop distributor must be utilized for service of GT-R wheels/tires.

Specifications for dealers to perform tire service:• Tire Machine - Hunter TC3500, TCX550 or TCX500 series Tire Changer or equivalent• Wheel Balancer - Hunter GSP9700 series Balancer or equivalent• Technician Certification - Dealers must have at least one technician successfully complete a training course in the proper use of equipment to service run flat tires.Acceptable sources of training include Hunter, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Tire Industry Association (TIA) providers or other manufacturers of compliant tire changing/balancing equipment. A certificate of completion will be required as part of the Sign-off Process.

Body ShopBecause GT-R will incorporate a variety of innovative materials and leading-edge body construction techniques, only one type of collision repair equipment has been authorized foruse in body shop repairs. The vehicle is designed with the cooperation and participation of Celette. The Celette MZ+ system utilizes upper body and under body jigs designed specifically for GT-R. No adjustable collision bench/jig system is approved for use on the GT-R. Only body shops with the Celette system will be authorized to perform collision repairs. NNA is working with Celette to identify body shops in the US and Canada that are properly equipped and trained. If your dealership already has a relationship with a body shop that is equipped with the Celette MZ system, please advise your DPSM so they can forward this information back to Parts and Service Operations, Tool & Equipment group.

Sign-off ProcessOnce the participating dealers are identified and have returned their certification agreements, the process of verifying dealership attainment of the requirements will begin. Lists of facing Bridgestone, Dunlop and Celette certified bodyshops will be provided so GT-R dealers can establish relationships with sublet providers in locations best suited to their needs. A Parts & Service checklist is under development which will be utilized by the District Parts & Service Managers (DPSM/DPSSs) to verify that every GT-R dealership candidate meets the minimum requirements. It is important for potential GT-R dealer candidates to consider the costs associated with any required upgrades to shop equipment and tool inventories. The information contained in this bulletin outlines the major Parts and Service requirements to become a GT-R dealership and is intended to assist each dealer in making an informed decision regarding becoming certified. We believe the information provided to date to be reasonably complete. However, if additional necessary information or requirements are identified as the pre-launch process progresses we will promptly advise as that additional information becomes available."

[all4sho]

We had to buy a HUNTER alignment rack for the low clerance and a HUNTER road force balancer and have nitrogen refill avalible for the GTR plus pay all the nissan fees to be able to sell the car and we are only going to get ONE!!

that sucks

[rn79870]

We had to buy a HUNTER alignment rack for the low clerance and a HUNTER road force balancer and have nitrogen refill avalible for the GTR plus pay all the nissan fees to be able to sell the car and we are only going to get ONE!!

that sucks

I guess this explains why there is going to be a markup on the car. All that new equipment and training, and 1 car for the dealership to service.

[Beezer]

Wow - I had no idea the list is that extensive. The dealer where I bought my car from is spending about $100,000 on the bay/retooling/training. I'm in Canada so its probably less of an outlay of capital in the US.

[cweberj30t]

Just like everything else in this world, supply and demand. Demand is high and supply is low prices go up.

[Sentientbydesign]

Your dealership may only be getting to sell one, but they will be able to service all of them in the are.

And if the service requirements are as stringent as the approval process, you can bet the service department will be making their money back quick.

[joe603]

What I got from Q's list is:

* New software/attachments* Special fluids* up to date tools/equipment/collision repair* Nitro for tires...or drain and use air* a low lift attachment (cant be wider than a full size truck)

Not seeing the 30k in markup...

[rn79870]

What I got from Q's list is:

* New software/attachments* Special fluids* up to date tools/equipment/collision repair* Nitro for tires...or drain and use air* a low lift attachment (cant be wider than a full size truck)

Not seeing the 30k in markup...

Actually, filling the tires with nitrogen isn't a bad idea. I know a couple of people who do that. Apparently it prevents tire pressured from fluctuating as much during driving. Consumer reports found that nitrogen filled tires lost slightly less pressure than regular tires over time.

It would probably be wise if you had a spare set of tires for track use to fill them with nitrogen, but for the street, not a big deal.

/end hijack/

[cweberj30t]

Don't most places use nitrogen anyways?

[Sentientbydesign]

Some, not most. The only place I know that does is Costco.

The 3 or 4 shops I've been to recently don't and I'm kinda glad, because they'd replace my valve stem caps with those ugly green ones.

[all4sho]

just the alignment machine cost's 40K and the balancer was another 10Kso you do the math and thats not including nissan's fees to sign up on the GTR program Nissan is making a big deal out of it just to sell the car I can't wait to see it!

[all4sho]

we have had people offer 20K over list price already to buy our GTR when it comes in.

[Jacko3]

It seems this GT-R is going to be more of a technical headache than a driving headache. I am just going to stick with my G-35 until something less finincky comes around. The GT-Rs engineering appears to be too complex and too demanding. You better have the bucks to deal with this car, if you are going to own one!

[joe603]

It seems this GT-R is going to be more of a technical headache than a driving headache. I am just going to stick with my G-35 until something less finincky comes around. The GT-Rs engineering appears to be too complex and too demanding. You better have the bucks to deal with this car, if you are going to own one!