Gt2871r on ca18det what trim??

[TnF]

Hello. I want to run a new turbo for my CA18det engine(1.8L, 8.5 CR).
I am looking for reliable 300whp with not so much lag and with some
future investment(if i upgrade to forged internals). For 300whp i'll
need about 350hp output on the flywheel. My choice right now is a
GT2871R with 0.64 AR turbine housing, but i am between 48 and 52
compressor trim. I like the "universal" style of the 48 trim(it has
GT28RS type compressor housing) though it will not be a problem
running the 2-bolt 52 trim housing. I've heard that the 52 trim is
more efficient and will spool faster??(why?) I also like the fact that the 48trim comes with an adjustable actuator...
Which one to use?

Cheers, Ken

[s13drifter88]

http://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarret ... 560_15.htm
the -15 is the gt-rs upgrade. it will churn out 350whp easily and you will come "on song" under 4k. they rip and theyre nasty

[TnF]

http://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarret ... 560_15.htm
the -15 is the gt-rs upgrade. it will churn out 350whp easily and you will come "on song" under 4k. they rip and theyre nasty

yeah...second think i am thinking is that my intake pipe is 2.5" and not 3" that is needed on the 48T...i can run on map sensor only btw...also i have stock 90" cast aluminium turbo outlet pipe...but i don't know if it is the same size(diameter) as the one needed on the 52Trim...i think a silicone 90 degree bend is much more reliable...or i am wrong?

[s13drifter88]

the 472560-15 52 trim is direct bolt on and will the sr20's stock turbo inlet and outlets, thats the one i sent you. Its the one i have. the ca18 had a different turbo so youll only have the outlet. you can prob buy a stock inlet for a few dollars tho. also the DIF clocking kit from frsport.com works really well

[TnF]

the 472560-15 52 trim is direct bolt on and will the sr20's stock turbo inlet and outlets, thats the one i sent you. Its the one i have. the ca18 had a different turbo so youll only have the outlet. you can prob buy a stock inlet for a few dollars tho. also the DIF clocking kit from frsport.com works really well

I had GT28R so installation is not a problem! No one answered my question yet! 48T or 52T! I don't wann hear about installation, but about performance with facts!

[s13drifter88]

52 trim. it will spool and perform the best of the 2871 options for what youre doing. read the article in Garretts turbo tech section on their website. itll help you understand turbo selection a little better
http://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarret ... 102.html#a

[CA18_nut]

I have the 52trim on my car (euro ca18) full boost at 4100rpm with stock manifold and a bad bleed valve, could probaly get it under 4k with a boost controller,there is power all the way to the redline, I have a short video of the acceleration from 100kph(60mph) to 230kph(140mph) I could upload it when I get home

[TnF]

drifter88 i know how to read maps and so...though it will not tell me how drivability will be...also without forged pistons i heard i can't go over 1.2bar..which is bad since 52trim can go up to 2.1 and the 48T to 48T.
Also ca18_nut please upload the video. I'm sure that if you check for bost leaks and use an ebc you will get full boost before 4000k. Do you have stock internals?

[CA18_nut]

no I replaced the stock ones with forged internals last year as a precaution to the higher boost levels I'll use later this year

[D_Stirls]

JDM CA18det with a 52T GT2871R 0.64ar.
It's making 290rwhp (~340BHP) with only a a change to the intake cam (Exhaust Cam fitted to the intake with cam gears). With a set of bigger cam you will yield an extra 20rwkw and with cams, port matching and porting in my built motor (still under construction) i'll be looking for around 250rwkw (~335rwhp, ~400bhp).

The car will be run with the GT2871R initially just to see what it makes but then i will be going for either a Twin Scroll GT3071R, or one of the new BW EFR series (Probably the latter)


As for full boost with a Chinese stainless manifold full boost was a bit over 4100rpm but after it cracked i went back to the factory manifold (as shown in the graph) full boost is around 3750.

[TnF]

JDM CA18det with a 52T GT2871R 0.64ar.
It's making 290rwhp (~340BHP) with only a a change to the intake cam (Exhaust Cam fitted to the intake with cam gears). With a set of bigger cam you will yield an extra 20rwkw and with cams, port matching and porting in my built motor (still under construction) i'll be looking for around 250rwkw (~335rwhp, ~400bhp).

The car will be run with the GT2871R initially just to see what it makes but then i will be going for either a Twin Scroll GT3071R, or one of the new BW EFR series (Probably the latter)


As for full boost with a Chinese stainless manifold full boost was a bit over 4100rpm but after it cracked i went back to the factory manifold (as shown in the graph) full boost is around 3750.

wow! what i wanted to see! stock internals! i can get tomei cams and gears for cheap(hopefully if they are not sold-at least i can get exhaust cam for free) How do you eliminated the gear cover??! i was looking for so long for this thing! How is the cas secured to the engine now? with a seperate plate? And what boost are you running?(with stock bottom end) what about injectors?(i have 510cc but i can go to 700cceasy)

[D_Stirls]

Stock internals, the boost is shown on the graph and is 17psi.
My brother and i developed a CAS bracket and backing plate for the CA's an d my brother is now selling them through his business ( http://www.growly.com.au ), Injectors are SARD 660cc items and i'm using NISTUNE .
I had some HKS 264x9.0 cams ready to go in but thought that that may be pushing the factory internals a bit far since the car mainly is ran on the track so doesn't have the easiest life, these HKS cams are the cams i will be using with the built engine.
I thought since the engine was healthy and i had a spare engine with a blown HG it was better to build a bullet proof engine with the spare rather that destroy what was still a good standard engine.

If the most of the info you are after you can get from my build thread which there is a link in the signature of my posts.

I have always thought that the 48T turbo would be well suited to the CA but no one has used one. What you will be achieving is ~200rpm better response with ~20hp less, so you really have to ask yourself how much power you are after.

[TnF]

Stock internals, the boost is shown on the graph and is 17psi.
My brother and i developed a CAS bracket and backing plate for the CA's an d my brother is now selling them through his business ( http://www.growly.com.au ), Injectors are SARD 660cc items and i'm using NISTUNE .
I had some HKS 264x9.0 cams ready to go in but thought that that may be pushing the factory internals a bit far since the car mainly is ran on the track so doesn't have the easiest life, these HKS cams are the cams i will be using with the built engine.
I thought since the engine was healthy and i had a spare engine with a blown HG it was better to build a bullet proof engine with the spare rather that destroy what was still a good standard engine.

If the most of the info you are after you can get from my build thread which there is a link in the signature of my posts.

I have always thought that the 48T turbo would be well suited to the CA but no one has used one. What you will be achieving is ~200rpm better response with ~20hp less, so you really have to ask yourself how much power you are after.

so is possible. I don't think the cams can do any damage if you re-tune. I have e-manage ultimate but i would like to have also nistune, or a power-fc(the modified version for the ca18det-only used now) but since i can do my work is no problem. nistune has it's advantages and disadvantages over e-manage...but anyway... 48T would be perfect for 300rwhp(about 350-360 on flywheel) but with the 0.64Ar turbine has a limit of ~380hp(you will have to change it again in the future)...i'll go with the 52T..it's has greater value of performance per price... is your figure in rwhp? how much is the flywheel figure?
thanks.

[D_Stirls]

My Graph is RW figure, in Australia we never use/quote BHP when using a chassis dyno as it is only an approximation when you aren't using an engine dyno. There are people here making ~265rwkw with a GT2871R running ~21psi (SR20 though)on pump fuel.
And there is drift car here in Adelaide that is running E85 and is making 290rwkw, that car is using a 52T GT2871R and is running an external gate though.

The turbine map shows that no more than 18lbs/min can pass through the turbine itself so then is comes down to how much you can pass around it through the gate.

[TnF]

My Graph is RW figure, in Australia we never use/quote BHP when using a chassis dyno as it is only an approximation when you aren't using an engine dyno. There are people here making ~265rwkw with a GT2871R running ~21psi (SR20 though)on pump fuel.
And there is drift car here in Adelaide that is running E85 and is making 290rwkw, that car is using a 52T GT2871R and is running an external gate though.

The turbine map shows that no more than 18lbs/min can pass through the turbine itself so then is comes down to how much you can pass around it through the gate.

are you talking about boost creep because of the internal wastegate? Can't you run 22psi? or it will break the pistons? I can understand that max flow rate for the turbine is 18lbs/min but this doesn't limit the compressor flow but only high rpm power. If you ran a bit more pressure wouldn't you push out 300rwhp or it isn't possible because of the max turbine flow?(though with external wastegate i think is possible)
thanks:)

[boost_boy]

Tune the car right and you won't need to worry about the stock internals and that is "Factual". If you are needing to see 20+psi then you may want to stay away from the S15's turbo because it was not designed to be working that hard. Oh yeah, churning out 350whp on those smaller turbos is not such an easy feat. Again, tuning is key here and is what usually where the ball gets dropped at.

[TnF]

Tune the car right and you won't need to worry about the stock internals and that is "Factual". If you are needing to see 20+psi then you may want to stay away from the S15's turbo because it was not designed to be working that hard. Oh yeah, churning out 350whp on those smaller turbos is not such an easy feat. Again, tuning is key here and is what usually where the ball gets dropped at.

heh...i am not sure you read all the posts...looking for 300whp on stock internals on gt2871r. that means 350hp on the flywheel. I was thinking running about 1.2bar but they say that piston rings can't hold that much pressure...

[boost_boy]

Tune the car right and you won't need to worry about the stock internals and that is "Factual". If you are needing to see 20+psi then you may want to stay away from the S15's turbo because it was not designed to be working that hard. Oh yeah, churning out 350whp on those smaller turbos is not such an easy feat. Again, tuning is key here and is what usually where the ball gets dropped at.

heh...i am not sure you read all the posts...looking for 300whp on stock internals on gt2871r. that means 350hp on the flywheel. I was thinking running about 1.2bar but they say that piston rings can't hold that much pressure...

Hehe...I'm not sure you've done the necessary research on the CA18 to conclude that it cannot handle 1.2 bar on stock internals. And I know what a GT2871r is and it's capabilities on a CA18 that's properly tuned. And where did you get this crap info about the CA being unreliable in the boost range you speak of? FYI: I have an S13 with a 400whp+powered CA and it's bottom end is basically stock. It's not my first as I do it in FWD as well, so as I've stated in the past and have proven it with facts, that crap about the CA blowing headgaskets at 15psi of boost and as you've stated that piston rings can't hold that much pressure is a myth which probably comes from people who didn't know what they were doing to begin with. I've been wrenching on CAs for over 15 years, so if facts you want, they come in the form of real time experiences from the individuals in this forum. Again, it's all about the tuning. If you can't tune, then no matter what you put in your engine will get owned .

[TnF]

thanks so much from the info. Everyone gives their opinion so i don't know who to trust! I am sure 22pssi(1.2bar) will be ok, but higher boost??(probably with lot's of fueling to cool down the cylinder!) Boost-boy do you have any thread with your build? also i have denso 510cc right now and i have an offer for the 700cc Denso's. Should i go for them, or they are not needed for 300whp? I can raise the fuel pressure, and i have also walbro 255 fuel pump!

[float_6969]

510's are fine for 300whp.

[boost_boy]

thanks so much from the info. Everyone gives their opinion so i don't know who to trust! I am sure 22pssi(1.2bar) will be ok, but higher boost??(probably with lot's of fueling to cool down the cylinder!) Boost-boy do you have any thread with your build? also i have denso 510cc right now and i have an offer for the 700cc Denso's. Should i go for them, or they are not needed for 300whp? I can raise the fuel pressure, and i have also walbro 255 fuel pump!

As for a build thread, I can't recall me ever starting one, but I've posted-up numerous photos of the work I do with the CA. The CA18DET likes fuel and boost "Point blank".. It does not like what the SR likes and it should never be tuned using SR maps for reference. I've been doing this for far too long to be boasting about it, but I do have a few long over due treats for the world to see; in both FWD and RWD. You need advice, you've come to the right place. If your question is can you run anything above 1.2 bar on the stock bottom end, then the anwer is "Yes". I can run up to 33psi on pump fuel, but again, it's all in the tuning and I do use standalone engine management systems, so please don't base everything off what I say. The Ca's stock bottom can take a wicked amount of boost, but if your tuning is crappy or your tuner is boot-leg, then "Pop goes the weasel" for you and your engine. And btw, those 700cc denso squirters are more than enough for your projected quests.

[TnF]

thanks very much. I am studying Mechanical Engineering in one of the top universities of UK right now(uni of Bath). Though we are doing more theoretical than practical things in the first 2 years. I am on 1st year and the latest coursework i gave in was a full design of a gearbox(to be fitted on motocycle engines to provide reverse-though the design was very limited) My 200sx is in Cyprus where i live which i will be at June. So i have still 3 months ahead me to make sure i have everything calculated for my project. I just want to go there and have the car ready in 2 weeks max. I have learned much techniques and stuff about the ca in the last months but i want to be sure not to blow it up. It's a 19 year old engine with over 135k miles on it. And tuning will be street done since i don't have money to spend on dyno using only innovate wideband, and stock knock sensor(can i really trust the stock knock sensor??) and yeah not even egt sensor;p Ecu management is e-manage ultimate fitted and working perfectly. I have also map sensor, and mac valve connected to emanage to control boost pressure.

But still tuning is the last thing i will have to do. I am about to buy the gt2871r 52t in the next 2 weeks, but i still have to choose and find intercooler and pipes. Also i have a nice offer for the rare hks 264 cams(8.5mm lift) Will i gain anything, or is it an overkill?(theoretically from dyno maps i saw they shift the power band to higher rpms...and higher rpms don't mean better reliability nor quickest times..)