Send me an email with the model, year, and color you want (Gunmetal, Red, Blue, "Cola").riggz wrote:Great! How do we order? Accept payment via PayPal?
Just HAD to rub it in huh? Let's go to the track in a month or two. I'll give you a proper launch and we'll see how it goes.CL92868 wrote:+1
***BUMP****
Thanks Nate! My M45 is running like a stallion!! For the price, it's worth the investment.
Nate, I wonder if the ground kit was the key to the race we had.
Any questions, post and I'll try to answer them to best of my knowledge.
*****Waiting patiently till I UPREV!!!*******
Sentientbydesign wrote:Just HAD to rub it in huh? Let's go to the track in a month or two. I'll give you a proper launch and we'll see how it goes.CL92868 wrote:+1
***BUMP****
Thanks Nate! My M45 is running like a stallion!! For the price, it's worth the investment.
Nate, I wonder if the ground kit was the key to the race we had.
Any questions, post and I'll try to answer them to best of my knowledge.
*****Waiting patiently till I UPREV!!!*******
CL92868 wrote:Sentientbydesign wrote: Just HAD to rub it in huh? Let's go to the track in a month or two. I'll give you a proper launch and we'll see how it goes.
Hahaha....Proper launch, 15mph? Uprev should fix that by then.
Great to see that your back. I kept thinking that you weren't going to be back any time soon. I was about to step in and 'service the Infiniti line up'. JK
I agree. But I think it comes down to the car engineers not thinking outside the box.M-Pilot wrote:Sorry for being naive... On a 55k to 65k automobile, why doesn't a "kit" like this just come standard? I mean, it costs $110...
CL92868 wrote:I agree. But I think it comes down to the car engineers not thinking outside the box.M-Pilot wrote:Sorry for being naive... On a 55k to 65k automobile, why doesn't a "kit" like this just come standard? I mean, it costs $110...
It comes down to people like Nate who strive to push every horse or pound out of their babies.
riggz wrote:I don't think you're going to gain any HP that would show up on a dyno. A dyno doesn't measure how fast it goes from 0-60 or how fast it shifts.
Point taken, I know little about car engineering and a lot less (nothing really) about electricity, so that's why I said on my post "dyno/electric test" inferring the possibility of some form of electric test proving the current in the car to be "cleaner" or whatever... Is that possible?? Makes sense?EniGmA1987 wrote:Yes Riggz is right. WHile some people claim they have a HP and TQ increase after putting a grounding kit on, I do not think that a grounding kit actually provides a HP increase. What it does is make the car response faster and shift quicker. So it can kinda feel like a HP increase because the car is much more responsive to you. In addition to the other benefits the kit provides.
Just sent it. One of the pitfalls of reading your emails on your phone...riggz wrote:Any word on when you can send me a paypal invoice? I sent an email last week.
IMO this is one of those mods that you just do or don't. No proof on paper available, however coming from an engineering background I can attest that when you ground an object with larger wires and/or more grounding points there are more paths of less resistance for the electrons to reach the battery and alternator circuit. This means the engines components such as spark plugs, fuel injectors, sensors and electronics in general will have a quicker response time and as for the spark plugs and fuel injectors greater current for a greater spark and more precise fuel injector functions. It makes sense to me 100%.Sentientbydesign wrote:To all those wanting testing. Me too! There are a few reasons why I haven't.
1) The HP gain from a grounding kit falls into the error range for a dyno. I had my G35 dynoed 3 times. Not once did the numbers from pull to pull come exactly or within 1 hp of each other. And this was on two different types of dynos at two different shops.
2) Testing the electrical would require the car to be moving and sensors at multiple points (Think transmission, ECU, ABS...etc.). The idea about hooking up a laptop to monitor transmission shift times might work if both the tiptronic signal and the transmission shift signal were both being monitored simultaneously.
3) I could test all of this out, then post up my findings and watch as everybody flocked to start their own grounding kit business. Kind of pointless...
To answer the question about why Nissan doesn't engineer their electrical systems better...Probably because the methods they use are pretty standard. But it gets sticky when you add on as many electrical components as they have. Not all manufacturers ground like Nissan/Infiniti does. Some do a much better job...
msvara wrote:IMO this is one of those mods that you just do or don't. No proof on paper available, however coming from an engineering background I can attest that when you ground an object with larger wires and/or more grounding points there are more paths of less resistance for the electrons to reach the battery and alternator circuit. This means the engines components such as spark plugs, fuel injectors, sensors and electronics in general will have a quicker response time and as for the spark plugs and fuel injectors greater current for a greater spark and more precise fuel injector functions. It makes sense to me 100%.Sentientbydesign wrote:To all those wanting testing. Me too! There are a few reasons why I haven't.
1) The HP gain from a grounding kit falls into the error range for a dyno. I had my G35 dynoed 3 times. Not once did the numbers from pull to pull come exactly or within 1 hp of each other. And this was on two different types of dynos at two different shops.
2) Testing the electrical would require the car to be moving and sensors at multiple points (Think transmission, ECU, ABS...etc.). The idea about hooking up a laptop to monitor transmission shift times might work if both the tiptronic signal and the transmission shift signal were both being monitored simultaneously.
3) I could test all of this out, then post up my findings and watch as everybody flocked to start their own grounding kit business. Kind of pointless...
To answer the question about why Nissan doesn't engineer their electrical systems better...Probably because the methods they use are pretty standard. But it gets sticky when you add on as many electrical components as they have. Not all manufacturers ground like Nissan/Infiniti does. Some do a much better job...
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_path_least_resistance/ and http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=148091 for reference.
To summarize, circuits in general have resistance, even wires. The larger the gauge (0 is larger than 4, etc) the less the resistance, however the length determines resistance as well so if you think of the engine metal parts and body as a wire for the ground part of the circuit think of how long the electrons have to travel to make it back to the battery/alternator circuit. By adding thick short wires you are shortening the path allowing for faster reaction times. Although IMO the ECU must also be grounded better because it's the brains of all the reactions anyway. Then other factors come into play such as temperature. The higher the temps the more resistance, so placement of the wires must be considered. Then you have external influences such as moisture and corrosion they both add to the resistance so on and so on...
@Sentientbydesign - How often do you make the kits? I would like to order one but don't want to wait too long after paying for it. Let me know if you have a few lying around I'll send you the paypal right away.
Cheers to you bud
Since the M35 and G35 kits are almost identical, then yes. The kit should fit. Installing the kit on an "X" model is a little more difficult due to the extra drive shaft, but it shouldn't be too hard.msvara wrote:Will it work on the M35x meaning AWD model? The only difference I believe is after the transmission (Transfer Case).
M
szh wrote:Umm ... as another electrical engineer, I just have to clarify a few comments that I see in posts in this thread.
Electrons in current in wires at room temperature actually travel very slowly ... on the order of 0.75 centimeters per second. Electrical effects of charge flow (current) are light-speed - quite a different thing. So, making the "distance" traveled by the electrons longer or shorter is not really relevant at all - certainly not for the path lengths inside a typical car. !
From a resistance perspective, the equation is "Resistance = Resistivity times length divided by cross-section area".
So ...
Yes, temperature can affect resistance, but these effects are likely to be swamped by factors like length and cross-section area. Particularly for the wiring material (Copper) and typical temperatures inside an engine compartment.
- If a given wire length remains the same, then making it larger in diameter is a good thing, since resistance is inversely proportional to cross-sectional area.
- For the same diameter, reducing wire length is a good thing too, since resistance is directly proportional to length.
Yes, in general, reducing wiring resistance can help in some ways and not matter in others:
So ... the question arises: are grounding kits worth it? The answer is "it depends". There are some clear and some not so clear points to be made, as far as I am concerned.
- Increases current flow in situations needed. For example, current draw from batteries needs to be high for cranking starter motors, without significant voltage drop in the wring (deliver more voltage and current to the starter). So, for example, wires to the battery are generally quite thick!
- Reduces the voltage drops in the wiring. But, this is dependent on the actual current flow, of course - like when cranking the starter. For low-current situations, the drops are often not significant enough to matter.
- Improves the transient response of high-speed signals. However, most signals in cars are not high-speed - certainly not in the areas where grounding kits can make a difference.
- In many cars, the metal body is used for ground paths - this can provide way lower overall resistance than any grounding wires, since the "effective" cross-section area is large. But, how and where you contact the body - and what kind of connection you use - could make a difference.
- Connections do matter. So, corrosion and metal-to-metal changes (copper is malleable) are important. For best results, solder or weld the connection - then there is no chance of increases in contact resistance (which would nullify the gain due to using heavier wires or connectors).
Will using a grounding kit hurt? No, not unless it shorts something out.
- There will NOT be any horsepower increase. The power of gasoline engines comes from conversion of explosive energy from the combustion of gas-air mixtures. No grounding kit can change that, sorry!
- In theory, you could get better grounds, and thus less "ground-bounce" (or altered logic level references low for electronic circuits). But, if the current in these electronic circuits are not high current power draws, then the voltage drop is not usually significant enough to matter.
- Providing alternate paths from various points on the car back to the battery is not likely to be particularly effective for longer distances. The farther the connection, the more likely the current flow in the body will be as good or better, since the length of the wire will be long.
Will using a grounding kit help? In theory it could.
In practice, I am not sure that the effect will matter much - perceptions and hopefulness do not count! Until someone puts a scope on a car electrical stuff where it is supposed to make a difference (like some signal from the ECU) and shows a clear improvement in signal shape - better rise times, or reduced overshoot, faster signals, etc., etc., etc., - I will hold on to my money.
Of course, YMMV. If you want to spend money on a well-made kit that does not short things out, and feel it gives you a benefit (cost is relatively low enough), then please do go for it.
Z