Greddy E-manage q's

[turbo98_240sx]

Ok as of yet I don't have a wide-band but I'm ordering it in a few weeks (zeitronix), but I do have a clone cable and software. I was kind of wanting to look at the "base" maps that greddy pre-programmed into the e-manage for the 240sx kit, but before I start to look at them there is a few things I need to know. I herd that any # sequence will unlock the unit. If I unlock the unit will the base map stay intact or will it go to a "0" map?(will the unit blank or reset when it becomes a 12*12 map?) I ask because I herd that stock there are only 5 points that are adjusted with the factory fuel map, unlocked there are 12, logically in my head I can't see the map staying intact (no easy conversion) and didn't want to f-up the unit's maps so my car wouldn't run or run poorly and if I had to I could wait till I got the wide-band or dyno time (both maybe like dyno time first to get a good map and then lean it out on the streets then back to dyno to fine tune, I haven't gotten that far yet so yeah). I searched but did not find the answers to these remaining questions. Thanks in advance.

To sum it up:

1) Will unlocking the unit change/reset the maps in it?

2) Is there anyway to save the "factory" map?

3) From the factory the map only has 5 points (5*5?), unlocked it is 12*12? (3a)If that is right is there any way to convert the 5*5 map to a 12*12 map?

4) Can I just enter a password (as I understand it just some #s) and look at the base map, in either 5*5 or 12*12 point configuration? Any other info about the maps would be great too.

5) I'm going to be using the zeitronix A/F wide-band and controller and noticed that the out put is non-linear, on the second MAF input can it be scaled properly to give correct A/F ratios or will it just be approximate and on a linear scale? Since I'm going to be using both the zeitronix unit and e-manage for data logging this is not critical, more useful info, as to witch data log would be the best to base decisions on the tune off of.

[virus77]

Ok so you have a Greddy turbo kit that comes with the emanage pretuned right?

I cant answer anything about viewing the stock maps, AFAIK they are locked and you cant view them and from what I saw from people cars on this forums the tune is such garbage that its not even worth seeing so I wouldnt worry about it.

Tuning the emanage from scratch isnt to difficult, just start rich and work yourself lean, I really recomment getting the pressure sensor and tuning using boost as it makes your job alot easier. that way you leave the off boost maps alone and only add fuel when it goes on boost.

The zeirtronix software will allow you to see A/F ratio and RPM on the same map which is all you are going to need to tune. I personally dispaly the A/F on my profec e-o1 and I monitor boost, rpm and A/F ratio and make my tune based on that, but boost should be constant so it doesnt matter much. The A/F output on the zeitronix is a linear output though. it has all the conversion tables on a piece of instruction paper that comes with the wideband.

[turbo98_240sx]

Yeah I guess I was asking about the maps changing because I don't have the wideband yet and wanted to get a sneak peek and I'm betting that greddy probably did a better job (on their base map even though it sucks) then I would at the "guess and plug in numbers" method. the plan for data logging and what not is to get the EGT sensor and boost sensor from zeirtronix, just run the boost sensor to the e-manage, and run the A/F signal into the second MAF input, I'm not sure what you mean by a boost only map but then again I haven't fired-up the e-manage software to check it out partly because its on my buddy's lap top because I don't have one, and he lives a hour away and I only see him on weekends anyways back to the matter at hand, I was planing on basing my tuning off of the zeirtronix software (A/F, Boost, TPS, EGT) and using the greddy readings (A/F, TPS, Boost, Injector duty cycle and all that other e-manage stuff), as back-ups even though I edit the E-manage for timing/fuel needs. Also I herd/read otherwise about the output of the A/F signal as being non-linear (if it's not it would be so much easier to get the signal in, so please prove me wrong), looking into this farther I seem to find mostly conflicting info to it being linear - http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/...08436

Later in the thread they talk about the conversion to get the analog signal to a Correct reading I'm quoting SSpeedracer here - "linear output converts the a/f into voltage using a constant ratio. For PLX 0V = 10 A/F, 2.35V = 14.7A/F, and 5V = 20A/F. All points between can be determined using a linear expression A/F=2*V+10 .... easy

A non linear output will require an exponential equation at best or a calibration table at worst. More work

My guess is that PLX converts from digital wherease Zietronix keeps it analog." <\end quote>

Then I went looking for proof from zietronix, as to the proof, I found it in the form of this graph - http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/V_AFR.jpg

the graph is linked off of - http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

So even though its not a huge difference from if it were linear it is still going to be a off a bit, maybe something to look into and once I start getting more aggressive and comfortable with my tune I don't want to find out (after the engine is in pieces) that I was running leaner/richer then I though. I'm not doubting that there is a conversion table for the Zietronix unit in fact I know there is, just it's not a linear output and was wondering how you input that table into the e-manage or if you just input the "raw" signal and just used that and converted in your head or paper or some thing. Unless I missed something somewhere and you can change the output to a linear one or there is another one that acts like a linear output. Also I dig the fact that I can simulate the stock narrow band, not having to welding a bung in rules.

oh yeah what does AFAIK mean, I feel dumb for asking but I couldn't figure it out? Thanks

[bruinbear714]

You can view the stock map ONLY IF you have the password to get in there. Otherwise you will have to come up with your own maps and overwrite the stock Greddy one.

Everyone I've spoke to who has the stock Greddy passworded maps say it's horrible.

[turbo98_240sx]

Yeah I can tell some times when the points on the map must "change" values and the motor will act differently at WOT some times it just feels hella rad and others it fizzles, the base greddy maps suck my balls, but Its not like I have a WB to tune, hence the Q's anyone know about the 5 point vs 12 point maps? is that true or just some thing I miss read some where?

[virus77]

Then I went looking for proof from zietronix, as to the proof, I found it in the form of this graph - http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/V_AFR.jpg

the graph is linked off of - http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

Thats pretty wierd, when you recieve the zeitronix package it has a piece of paper that tells you what to enter for a standalone or datalogger. Its something like 0v is equal to 9.5:1 afr and 5v is equal to 21:1 afr. I cant remember the exact numbers but its somethign close to that.

Either way the numbers seem to be working right for me and for instance my car reads a 19.5:1 on Decel which on the graph represents 3.1 v which doesnt make sense since my settings indicate its recieveing a signal of 4.5 v (which is off the chart in the link) in order to display the 19:1 AFR. Mabe the graph shows the voltage curve the o2 sensor is outputting to the zeitronix unit which in turn is recalculated and outputed through its output line in a linear curve.

AFAIK = As far as I know

Also the 5 points you speak of might be the 5 dials the emanage has phsically on its case for fuel adjustment. its basically the ghetto functions of it if you dont have the support tool.

[turbo98_240sx]

Yeah If it is linear I'm game even more, oh well I'll find out sooner or later, hopefully sooner

[240sx2soon]

Is it that the stock map is horrible or is it conservative to prevent overtaxing the motor? We all know how mainstream tuners don't like to push the envelope to far because of liabilaty issues so I wonder if thats the problem. Can you remedy the emanage issues with an e0-1? In other words can I set up new maps and boost limits and really maximize the TD-06S turbo with the Profec unit? If thats the case then why aren't more people running the greddy kit? Cost wise it's about the same as an IAP kit with the profec, BOV, turbo timer and new maf so why aren't more people doin it? Just my noob Greddy question, forgive me if this has been beaten to death already.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItemh ... rs...wItem

That adds up to about $4222 in my book and you have all the extras to go with it, oh wait forgot one ( and even this is upgraded ) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...&rd=1For my money the Graddy kit is more comprehensive and I can afford more safeguards and allow for better tuning ( turbo timer and e0-1 ). This is all just speculation and there are certain unseen or "undiscloused" costs, such as tuning. But then again not many of us are expert tuners and the Greddy package should be plug and play and allow you to run around for a little while on low boost until you can get it tuned with th e0-1 ( priceless in my book considering how hard it is to line up a good tuner AND dyno time AND have your tubo installed on time with no surprises ). I looked hard at the Boost Design thing and we all know how that turned out and I was anxious to see IAP's offering but after looking at their price's ( which are not bad, don't get me wrong ) I have to give more serious consideration to the Greddy kit.

BTW- sorry for going so far off topic but I got a bit carried away Modified by 240sx2soon at 9:12 AM 7/27/2005
Modified by 240sx2soon at 9:14 AM 7/27/2005

[turbo98_240sx]

My guess is that greddy was going for the CARB EO # on the kit (they failed btw) but in order to get the EO# they had to tune down the tune. This led to a "Conservative" tune. As far as the greddy kit goes I think it is a good kit, they just should have made it an externally wastegated turbo and included bigger injectors for the people who would upgrade later, and maybe gotten a BOV on the kit. The kit works great for what it is, once you start to upgrade it, your going to notice things like small injectors and small wastegate on the turbo that might lead to boost creep, at higher PSI. IF you where to buy the greddy kit you also prob wouldn't need a new MAF, just a boost sensor for the kit. My .02

[virus77]

a bit off topic but dont knock internal gates, I pushed upper 300's to the wheels with 17 psi of boost and never had problems with my internal gate. Makes for an easier install.

[turbo98_240sx]

Yeah I wasn't knocking them, just in the greddy kit one of the big things that they claimed was the ability to go up to 400 or 450 hp, I know you would have to touch internals and all that other stuff, but I don't know that the wastegate SIZE on the 20g in the kit is going to be adequate to support that, I believe it was Red-KAT that totally modded his mani to support an external wastegate because he had boost creep in 5th gear, Now I'm not saying that internal wastegates suck by any means just on the kit for the sake of upgrading later (witch greedy boasted could be done.) I wish it would have been external or a larger internal wastegate, that's all. Over all I love the greddy kit for the price I don't think it can be beaten considering it comes with the e-manage, and the Intercooler is the bomb and the piping route they took was slick (no battery re-location needed). On a side note I just hooked up with the stock map from the greddy kit.

[alta steve]

ok the greddy e-manage, you can go in and view the map but there is definately a password protection on it so you cant change it but according to greddy, they said to type up bull**** in and it should work...and YES you can save the stock map on your hard drive and mess w/ another map if you want. i DO have some other passwords from greddy for other emanage kits.. ill see if those passwords work or if you want, ill give them to you.. let me know if u want them.. [email protected]

[240sx2soon]

My WHP goal is around 300 so I don't think I will run into any of the high boost issues that your concerned about with the kit. I am thinking around 13-14 psi will get me there with proper tune but it's speculation ( BTW I consider high boost anything over 1 BAR ). Unless there is somthing better offered form someone else in 6-7 months I think I'll be going the greddy route for my turbo, maybe even have enough bank left to source out a tubular exhaust manifold and if B.D has their **** together by then maybe seek out an intake and exhaut mani from them.

[turbo98_240sx]

Make sure you get the flanges/down pipe right then

[virus77]

id say stay away from BD at all costs, that my opinion. They proved themselves not worthy.

[outsides]

i had to mess with the zeitronix signal input to my profec e-01. like you said the greddy display in linear while wideband signal isnt. i had to graph it out and found the best compromise for accuracy for the range i was interested in watching, 10:1 to 15:1. i set my scale as 0v is 8:1, 5v is 21.5:1. and so far, it works fairly well, i noticed that with the greddy kit, i go to the low 10:1s under full load, and idle/cruising is right at 14.7:1.

[turbo98_240sx]

outsides did you change anything to the stock maps? if so did you use the E-01 to do it? So the zeitronix is non linear? Thanx

[Florida240sx]

IAP kit is awesome.Don't have to relocate your battery with theirs either...Even with me running rich with stock injectors I scarred a GT Stang. I got an SAFC but haven't tuned it.Don't want to run lean. I was going to go with e-manage but if I did I would of gotten the profec.and at that price why not just get the aem... Any news on the new ultimate?

[outsides]

when i got my zeitronix, it came with a green paper that showed afr versus voltage signal. i just went to paintbrush and graphed it out. then i used a straight line to find what points i needed to input on the e=01, that were fairly accurate from 10:1 to 15:1. and of course spot on with the magic 14.7:1 number.my emanage is still locked, though i have contacted greddy to get a base map to look at. mainly as a starting point to adjust the maps. you need to send an email to [email protected] and ask for your base map, including serial number on your emanage.benny at greddy said that i would need the support cd to load the base map to my emanage, and then from there i could mess with the map.

[virus77]

well Ill be a monkeys uncle, I guess I didnt pay attention close enough to the conversions on the paper, your definatly right, its not linear. I happen to be pretty close to what the conversions were which is a good thing, but I have come to find out I was around .7 AFR to rich on all my readings so I have an extra .7 to lean out now and make more power, this made my night. Now I just need to get my new driveshaft in since I mangled the damn thing on some hard launches last friday.

It looks like inputing 1v as 11:1 AFR and 3v as 16:1 AFR will give you the air/fuel range you need for tuning and be almost on point with the curve that the zeitronix outputs. anything below and above is too non linear, and not important alltogether so it works out. Thanks fellas for bringing this to my attention, ive got some power to gain...
Modified by virus77 at 10:43 AM 7/31/2005

[turbo98_240sx]

See Virus77 you gained a lil knowledge (and maybe some HP) from my inquiry into the matter, glad my question didn't just help me. (sorry if you took anything I said personal too I wasn't trying to offend even tho I think you knew that) anyways thanx all so far. I'm going with the zeitronix and might figure something out on how to make a conversion Box to feed signal stright into e-manage and get right values IDK I'll keep you posted on the signal conversion box If I do it maybe. I know how I'm going to do it but not sure if it will work. If I try it I'm sure I will succeed.

[virus77]

Im not a hard headed guy thats not willing to listen to people. I have my own knowledge I share with people on this board to help them out and I am open to learning aswell, you can always teach an old dog new tricks.

[Red-KAT]

I had to mod my mani for an external WG becuse I took out my CAT's and would get boost creap to 15psi (maby more) in any gear.

The greddy tune had no password... but it was running 9:1 afr... so its just ****ty...

[turbo98_240sx]

My greddy kit might be slitghly diffrent, its like this, yes I can overwrite the stock file if I log in w/o the password and make one up, but since I don't have the WB02 yet, its not like I can tune it so what would be the point? Off topic a bit but what did you use for the cat replacement, is there a aftermarket test pipe for the KA?