I think everyone who drives on the highways at any point in time should read this article and then voice your opinion.
http://channels.netscape.com/n...anes1
Great article
Even with people who can control a car better than others at high speed shouldn't get special driving privledges. You either drive the speed limit or mile or two per hour faster and if you get a ticket, live with it.
The article mentions how it would be safer.. because the people who wanna drive faster will get their own lane and that way they won't pile into another driver who's going the limit or a mile or two over? I don't think so.. that's like saying "Hey, I like to murder people so I should get my own special treatment if I murder someone instead of when someone who's "normal" murders someone, they get the death penelty and I get a slap on the wrist because I'm a repeat offender and I've got a special license that allows me to get away with more." It's an extreme analogy but it shows how stupid I think that article is. And maybe how stupid I am.. point is....
You like to drive faster and hate when someone is driving slower than you.. if that person is going the speed limit.. get over it. It's posted that speed for a reason.. to give you enough time to stop if something wrong happens and you need time to stop.. going 85-100 is gonna give you less time to react than 55-65 or 70 mph..
The article mentions how it would be safer.. because the people who wanna drive faster will get their own lane and that way they won't pile into another driver who's going the limit or a mile or two over? I don't think so.. that's like saying "Hey, I like to murder people so I should get my own special treatment if I murder someone instead of when someone who's "normal" murders someone, they get the death penelty and I get a slap on the wrist because I'm a repeat offender and I've got a special license that allows me to get away with more." It's an extreme analogy but it shows how stupid I think that article is. And maybe how stupid I am.. point is....
You like to drive faster and hate when someone is driving slower than you.. if that person is going the speed limit.. get over it. It's posted that speed for a reason.. to give you enough time to stop if something wrong happens and you need time to stop.. going 85-100 is gonna give you less time to react than 55-65 or 70 mph..
The idea of allowing different lanes for different purposes isn't new (autobahn, bus lane, HOV, bike lanes, etc), but the legislation obstacles here (US) to allow for "more", versus limited would make it nearly impossible. But if it could happen...
- More intense testing (for a fee)- More frequent testing (again fee)- Detailed Safety Inspections (for car) required to maintain licensure, automobile marked with a special designation tag(again fee)- More/harsher penalties for those with this permit if found in violation (wrong area, non-approved vehicle, in poor mweather, etc)- More/harsher penalties for those without the permit using special "lanes"- Roadways inspected regularly and potentially re-classified (ie, from a 90mph to a 80mph)
That's just a few ideas, nonetheless it's a good article.
- More intense testing (for a fee)- More frequent testing (again fee)- Detailed Safety Inspections (for car) required to maintain licensure, automobile marked with a special designation tag(again fee)- More/harsher penalties for those with this permit if found in violation (wrong area, non-approved vehicle, in poor mweather, etc)- More/harsher penalties for those without the permit using special "lanes"- Roadways inspected regularly and potentially re-classified (ie, from a 90mph to a 80mph)
That's just a few ideas, nonetheless it's a good article.
I wish to respectfully disagree with Mafioso.
If you are in the left lane, you either need to be passing or be significantly faster than the rest of traffic.
Not only is this basic driving ettiquette, but in most states the law.
When I am in the left lane , even if I am going 95 in a 65 I scan my rear view mirror every 5-7 seconds to check if there is a faster vehicle approaching to whjom I would have to yield.
In the left lane, the faster vehicle has the right of way.Anyone in the left lane MUST constantly check his hia rear view for a faster vehicle.
this makes me shudder when I see older PPL or even those with handicap sticker because I know they won't check their rear view mirror constantly cuz its too much effort.
Fred...
If you are in the left lane, you either need to be passing or be significantly faster than the rest of traffic.
Not only is this basic driving ettiquette, but in most states the law.
When I am in the left lane , even if I am going 95 in a 65 I scan my rear view mirror every 5-7 seconds to check if there is a faster vehicle approaching to whjom I would have to yield.
In the left lane, the faster vehicle has the right of way.Anyone in the left lane MUST constantly check his hia rear view for a faster vehicle.
this makes me shudder when I see older PPL or even those with handicap sticker because I know they won't check their rear view mirror constantly cuz its too much effort.
Fred...
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Mr1der
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I agree the left lane should be for faster cars, as it is usually called the fastlane for that reason.
but making the limit higher isn't gonna be the best idea with typical american drivers who tailgate and normally drive like coked up monkeys...
if you've ever watched anything about the autobahn or better yet, driven on it (I haven't gotten to yet, I wanna use a passport damnit!:)) you'd know of the very strict laws on tailgateing and driving unsafe like using phones, applying makeup, or even more disturbing, reading the damn newspaper...
I think 65 or 70mph is fast enough for us, if you don't like it, you better drive safely while you get your ticket!
as far as special training or restrictions on a lane go, how many use the HOV with out the required number of people?
but making the limit higher isn't gonna be the best idea with typical american drivers who tailgate and normally drive like coked up monkeys...
if you've ever watched anything about the autobahn or better yet, driven on it (I haven't gotten to yet, I wanna use a passport damnit!:)) you'd know of the very strict laws on tailgateing and driving unsafe like using phones, applying makeup, or even more disturbing, reading the damn newspaper...
I think 65 or 70mph is fast enough for us, if you don't like it, you better drive safely while you get your ticket!
as far as special training or restrictions on a lane go, how many use the HOV with out the required number of people?
PalmerWMD wrote:I wish to respectfully disagree with Mafioso.
If you are in the left lane, you either need to be passing or be significantly faster than the rest of traffic.
Not only is this basic driving ettiquette, but in most states the law.
When I am in the left lane , even if I am going 95 in a 65 I scan my rear view mirror every 5-7 seconds to check if there is a faster vehicle approaching to whjom I would have to yield.
In the left lane, the faster vehicle has the right of way.Anyone in the left lane MUST constantly check his hia rear view for a faster vehicle.
this makes me shudder when I see older PPL or even those with handicap sticker because I know they won't check their rear view mirror constantly cuz its too much effort.
Fred...
Yea, tell this to the cop who pulls ya over..
"It was the left lane officer! I'm allowed to go faster than the speed limit!"
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C-Kwik
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I think the testing procedures to get a license needs to be stricter, period. Testing now, really tests your ability to follow the laws of the road. Ideally, this should work to reduce accidents, but in reality, it does not. For one reason or another, we break laws. Either intentionally, or unintentionally. As far as I'm concerned, it makes no difference. What causes accidents is not breaking the law in that of itself, but breaking the law when it's not safe to do so. The basic speed law is a prime example. Drive only as fast as conditions allow. I handle claims for a living, and I've had people argue with me that they are not at fault for an accident and they were going as slow as possible on ice/snow, but they still lost control and hit something. The reality is, if it's so unsafe that taking these kind of precautions can't prevent an accident, it is just best not to be on the road at all.
Running stops signs don't cause accidents. Not yielding the right-of-way does.
These are examples of the kind of things drivers need to understand. People tend to understand what the laws say, but fail to understand WHY the laws are there.
There is also a level of ignorance among many drivers. They fail to recognize that people do speed and people do break laws. A truly good driver recognizes this fact. I've heard so many people state that they were pulling from a stop sign or driveway, and they saw the other car far away so they pulled out. Then they argue that the person was speeding. My response has always been...if you saw them, could you not tell they were speeding?
On the flipside, as varying are the personalities in this world, the types of drivers in it are just as diverse. Everyone needs to recognize this. And for this reason, everyone needs to be aware of their surroundings. Fred talked about people in the left lane checking their mirrors periodically. I think everyone should be. It's absolutely important to be aware of what is around you at all times. It's easy to get comfortable cruising behind a car. But should something happen, you may find at even bigger comfort knowing that you knew the lane next to you was empty and that it was a way out for you.
And not to pick on our elder drivers, but some just need to be off the road completely. And this is not to say older drivers should not be on the road. I've taken statements from 90 year old women who have more awareness than some middle aged drivers. It's the drivers who have lost much of their refex and awaeness that even they themselves are actually afraid to drive, but they still do. They clench their steering wheels so tight that should something happen, they can not make any quick reactions to an emergency. They even tend to understand this so they just drive slower. In a sense this is good that they are taking it into consideration, but in the bigger picture, there are people who get frustrated, needing to pass this person and anyone else who is slowed down by this person. They make lane changes, perhaps into faster moving traffic. Perhaps it causes some amount of road rage. It causes fast moving traffic to slow down in general. All these things can lead to accidents. This can be said of people who just drive to slow in general as well.
I can probably go on for hours on this topic. But I won't. It's Christmas and I should be with my family. But to finalize my thoughts. Having a tiered license program would be arbitrary, expensive and hard to enforce. Many of the laws we have now are in fact somewhat arbitrary and stupid. But they are necessary as the diversity of drivers causes the government to take a conservative approach to everything. Being stricter with our driver training, licensing and testing procedures may help reduce this affect. But alas, there are way too many factors at play here. Ideally, if everyone drove with some common sense under a common group of road guidelines, we would have very few accidents. Regardless of how many of todays laws are actually broken. But as I've said before, Stupid laws are for Stupid people.
Merry Christmas all.
Running stops signs don't cause accidents. Not yielding the right-of-way does.
These are examples of the kind of things drivers need to understand. People tend to understand what the laws say, but fail to understand WHY the laws are there.
There is also a level of ignorance among many drivers. They fail to recognize that people do speed and people do break laws. A truly good driver recognizes this fact. I've heard so many people state that they were pulling from a stop sign or driveway, and they saw the other car far away so they pulled out. Then they argue that the person was speeding. My response has always been...if you saw them, could you not tell they were speeding?
On the flipside, as varying are the personalities in this world, the types of drivers in it are just as diverse. Everyone needs to recognize this. And for this reason, everyone needs to be aware of their surroundings. Fred talked about people in the left lane checking their mirrors periodically. I think everyone should be. It's absolutely important to be aware of what is around you at all times. It's easy to get comfortable cruising behind a car. But should something happen, you may find at even bigger comfort knowing that you knew the lane next to you was empty and that it was a way out for you.
And not to pick on our elder drivers, but some just need to be off the road completely. And this is not to say older drivers should not be on the road. I've taken statements from 90 year old women who have more awareness than some middle aged drivers. It's the drivers who have lost much of their refex and awaeness that even they themselves are actually afraid to drive, but they still do. They clench their steering wheels so tight that should something happen, they can not make any quick reactions to an emergency. They even tend to understand this so they just drive slower. In a sense this is good that they are taking it into consideration, but in the bigger picture, there are people who get frustrated, needing to pass this person and anyone else who is slowed down by this person. They make lane changes, perhaps into faster moving traffic. Perhaps it causes some amount of road rage. It causes fast moving traffic to slow down in general. All these things can lead to accidents. This can be said of people who just drive to slow in general as well.
I can probably go on for hours on this topic. But I won't. It's Christmas and I should be with my family. But to finalize my thoughts. Having a tiered license program would be arbitrary, expensive and hard to enforce. Many of the laws we have now are in fact somewhat arbitrary and stupid. But they are necessary as the diversity of drivers causes the government to take a conservative approach to everything. Being stricter with our driver training, licensing and testing procedures may help reduce this affect. But alas, there are way too many factors at play here. Ideally, if everyone drove with some common sense under a common group of road guidelines, we would have very few accidents. Regardless of how many of todays laws are actually broken. But as I've said before, Stupid laws are for Stupid people.
Merry Christmas all.
Mafioso wrote:Yea, tell this to the cop who pulls ya over..
"It was the left lane officer! I'm allowed to go faster than the speed limit!"
He wasn't saying that it wasn't against the law, but somehow I doubt you follow all the laws, all the time either.
People have always sped, people will always speed and until they change the laws to accomodate the lead-footed, there will be consequences for when they're caught. It's just risk assessment and pros vs. cons.
Merry Christmas and use your turn signals when changing lanes or I'll string you up by your balls with guitar string.
SeVa-S13 wrote:He wasn't saying that it wasn't against the law, but somehow I doubt you follow all the laws, all the time either.
People have always sped, people will always speed and until they change the laws to accomodate the lead-footed, there will be consequences for when they're caught. It's just risk assessment and pros vs. cons.
Merry Christmas and use your turn signals when changing lanes or I'll string you up by your balls with guitar string.
He was saying that the left lane is for the faster traffic.. which is only true because society has made it that way. But the law reads that you must do the posted speed limit no matter what lane you are in. I was saying to have fun going 95 or over the speed limit in the left lane, and when he get's pulled over, have fun explaining his reasoning. This changing the law to help the lead-foot people get their own lane is crap. Because that part of society won't comform we have to adjust to them, no. They either conform or get a ticket. And most accidents happen because the leadfoot person is going to fast and doesn't have enough reaction time to stop. Period.
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C-Kwik
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Mafioso wrote:He was saying that the left lane is for the faster traffic.. which is only true because society has made it that way. But the law reads that you must do the posted speed limit no matter what lane you are in. I was saying to have fun going 95 or over the speed limit in the left lane, and when he get's pulled over, have fun explaining his reasoning. This changing the law to help the lead-foot people get their own lane is crap. Because that part of society won't comform we have to adjust to them, no. They either conform or get a ticket. And most accidents happen because the leadfoot person is going to fast and doesn't have enough reaction time to stop. Period.
Actually, there are areas where this is law. White signs are laws. I've seen many speed limit signs here in Cali where they post the speed limit and underneath, it says, "slower traffic keep right."
And actually most accidents on freeways do not happen because someone is going over the speed limit. It's usually because they are tailgating or not paying attention. A large percentage of these are in stop and go traffic, so noone is actually speeding. Speed in that of itself doesn't cause accidents. Driving too fast for conditions does.
Mafioso wrote:He was saying that the left lane is for the faster traffic.. which is only true because society has made it that way. But the law reads that you must do the posted speed limit no matter what lane you are in...
If you don't agree that the left lane is for faster traffic do you at least agree that slower traffic is supposed to stay to the right?
Also, I can speak from experience, that I was warned (in KY)for driving in the left lane when no other cars were around and I was observing the posted limit.
Watch out for the idiots, cause the aren't looking out for you...
I have to agree with the concept of this article, but it just isn't practicle. Someone made the point about fuel economy/polution and federal aid, with out this money our individual states would not be able to afford to enforce the rules of the road or make repairs to ever worsening streets and traffic. So, in order for this type of change things have to change on the federal level first, does anyone have a few million in cold untraceable cash to buy a few senators?
Try to follow my randomness:
Next, the biggest problem, in my opinion, is people are afraid of the gas. When the light turns green you should get up to speed in a timely manner (I am not saying light the tires up) most major city traffic systems are timed for this. If the speed limit is 35 it shouldn't take longer than a few seconds to get there, 4-10 for most vehicles.
Then, people need to learn how to merge and let people merge, everyone lets one person in. Then get over as soon as possible. Get over to the exit you need in ample time, but not so soon as to create congestion for other merging traffic.
Finally, people need to use mass transit/carpools to commute to and from work. The local governments need to do everything in their ability to provide reliable, versatile, and inexpensive means of mass transit.
I live in the Seattle region. In the past 8 years I have noticed an increase of drive times, during peak hours, of almost 100%. The local government here has had their heads buried so far in the sand they could see China. Mass Transit, along with freeway and major thourough fare expansion should have started 15 years ago. We knew that the population was going to expand here and that the roads couldn't handle the volume, but instead of raising property taxes and sales taxes, or placing tolls on the freeways, nothing was done, the votes were far more important. Then five years ago when they finally passed legislation to do something, they piddled away millions of dollars to "Environmental Research Projects" one after another. Anyway the point of the last bit is this, things aren't going to change because we have a budget to sustain, some of it goes to worthy things and some just gets wasted because of poor decisions. More legislation, like the kind that it would take to create different, special liscences and traffic lanes isn't feasible, why? They can't even fix the problems now that they knew about almost 2 decades ago.
Be patient with other drivers, watch out for the idiot, 'cause they aren't watching out for you!!!!!!!
Try to follow my randomness:
Next, the biggest problem, in my opinion, is people are afraid of the gas. When the light turns green you should get up to speed in a timely manner (I am not saying light the tires up) most major city traffic systems are timed for this. If the speed limit is 35 it shouldn't take longer than a few seconds to get there, 4-10 for most vehicles.
Then, people need to learn how to merge and let people merge, everyone lets one person in. Then get over as soon as possible. Get over to the exit you need in ample time, but not so soon as to create congestion for other merging traffic.
Finally, people need to use mass transit/carpools to commute to and from work. The local governments need to do everything in their ability to provide reliable, versatile, and inexpensive means of mass transit.
I live in the Seattle region. In the past 8 years I have noticed an increase of drive times, during peak hours, of almost 100%. The local government here has had their heads buried so far in the sand they could see China. Mass Transit, along with freeway and major thourough fare expansion should have started 15 years ago. We knew that the population was going to expand here and that the roads couldn't handle the volume, but instead of raising property taxes and sales taxes, or placing tolls on the freeways, nothing was done, the votes were far more important. Then five years ago when they finally passed legislation to do something, they piddled away millions of dollars to "Environmental Research Projects" one after another. Anyway the point of the last bit is this, things aren't going to change because we have a budget to sustain, some of it goes to worthy things and some just gets wasted because of poor decisions. More legislation, like the kind that it would take to create different, special liscences and traffic lanes isn't feasible, why? They can't even fix the problems now that they knew about almost 2 decades ago.
Be patient with other drivers, watch out for the idiot, 'cause they aren't watching out for you!!!!!!!
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"And since so little is expected of all drivers, the general level of skill is dropping, making everyone unhappy and nervous--and making driving conditions much more dangerous than they ought to be."
This struck me as a good point. If anyone can agree on anything is that the current licensing procedures don't go as in depth/teach as much as they *could*
As far as the proposal to have special lanes,licenses, etc. It's not going to happen, as bnanev pointed out, that traffic issues can't be solved now ensures the fact that a new system is going to be out of the question (unless it is a get-revenue-quick scheme like stop-light cameras.... they *love* those)
This struck me as a good point. If anyone can agree on anything is that the current licensing procedures don't go as in depth/teach as much as they *could*
As far as the proposal to have special lanes,licenses, etc. It's not going to happen, as bnanev pointed out, that traffic issues can't be solved now ensures the fact that a new system is going to be out of the question (unless it is a get-revenue-quick scheme like stop-light cameras.... they *love* those)
C-Kwik wrote:Actually, there are areas where this is law. White signs are laws. I've seen many speed limit signs here in Cali where they post the speed limit and underneath, it says, "slower traffic keep right."
And actually most accidents on freeways do not happen because someone is going over the speed limit. It's usually because they are tailgating or not paying attention. A large percentage of these are in stop and go traffic, so noone is actually speeding. Speed in that of itself doesn't cause accidents. Driving too fast for conditions does.
Yea and those signs don't mean if your going over the speed limit stay to the left. Those signs are there for people who are going under the speed limit or even the speed limit, stay to the right.. if someone is going the speed limit, is on the right.. and comes up to a person who is going under, they use the left to pass.. It doesn't mean.. hey, you can go over the speed limit if u stay on the left.
And the tailgaters are usually people who want to go faster than the speed limit or generally faster than traffic so they ride your butt. Speed can and does cause accidents, your naive to think otherwise.
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nissanrcer240
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Quote »Stupid laws are for Stupid people[/quote]
LoL, thats so true
Quote »He was saying that the left lane is for the faster traffic.. which is only true because society has made it that way. But the law reads that you must do the posted speed limit no matter what lane you are in... [/quote]
You can be the 'faster traffic' and still not be breaking the speed limit. Say the speed limit is 55mph and your doing 50, and Im coming up behind you doing 55(posted speed limit), you should be in or change into the right lane and the left lane should be there for me to pass by you. I would be the faster traffic in the left lane and wouldnt have to explain anything to any officer b/c no laws were broken. I think thats what PalmerWMD was saying. Correct me if Im wrong though
LoL, thats so true
Quote »He was saying that the left lane is for the faster traffic.. which is only true because society has made it that way. But the law reads that you must do the posted speed limit no matter what lane you are in... [/quote]
You can be the 'faster traffic' and still not be breaking the speed limit. Say the speed limit is 55mph and your doing 50, and Im coming up behind you doing 55(posted speed limit), you should be in or change into the right lane and the left lane should be there for me to pass by you. I would be the faster traffic in the left lane and wouldnt have to explain anything to any officer b/c no laws were broken. I think thats what PalmerWMD was saying. Correct me if Im wrong though
i'm responding since you posted this up on the local board mafioso....
I think it's pretty niave to think even 90% of people don't break the law on a daily basis. You are going for a strict interpritation. That means even your 1-2mph over the speedlimit is worth a ticket. That means walking across a 2 lane street to get to the corner store is worth a jay walking ticket.
The laws in this country are undeniably in place for the stupid portion of the people. A tiered system would be a great answer to this, but also unfortunatly hard to enforce.
You said people are naive for argueing against you, you are naive if you don't think this is just the way it already is, and keeping 80year olds out of the fast lane won't do anything but make things more safe for not only the "fast drivers", but everyone else on the highway.
I think it's pretty niave to think even 90% of people don't break the law on a daily basis. You are going for a strict interpritation. That means even your 1-2mph over the speedlimit is worth a ticket. That means walking across a 2 lane street to get to the corner store is worth a jay walking ticket.
The laws in this country are undeniably in place for the stupid portion of the people. A tiered system would be a great answer to this, but also unfortunatly hard to enforce.
You said people are naive for argueing against you, you are naive if you don't think this is just the way it already is, and keeping 80year olds out of the fast lane won't do anything but make things more safe for not only the "fast drivers", but everyone else on the highway.
I agree with more rigorous testing for licenses. Some people are just to old and some people just dont know enough laws to keep the roads safe. I do not agree with a tiered structure and dedicated "fast lanes". Are fastlanes the way it is now? Yea.. but not by law. I don't agree with the article.
With more rigorous testing it would get alot of people out of the roads in general, but I don't believe in having a dedicated fast lane. Alot of people would abuse it and accidents would go up. People not allowed to use the lane would use it.. you see people not suppose to use the HOV using it? I sure as hell do on a daily basis.. people with bad tires would use this fantastic fast lane and blow a tire, not know what to do.. cause a pile up.. more deaths..
With more rigorous testing it would get alot of people out of the roads in general, but I don't believe in having a dedicated fast lane. Alot of people would abuse it and accidents would go up. People not allowed to use the lane would use it.. you see people not suppose to use the HOV using it? I sure as hell do on a daily basis.. people with bad tires would use this fantastic fast lane and blow a tire, not know what to do.. cause a pile up.. more deaths..
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