Got Ping ? Mad Max 78 degree a/c on

[jamesmost]

running mad max AC on 93 octaine Shell major pingwhat to do ??

[Q45tech]

Blend your own REAL 93 octane gasoline. Try some other brands.Turn AC off. What is coolant temperature?

I'll be if we tested the fuel it wouldn't test 90 octane!

[jamesmost]

Blend your own REAL 93 octane gasoline. Try some other brands.Turn AC off. What is coolant temperature?

I'll be if we tested the fuel it wouldn't test 90 octane!

thats what i'm thinkin. Rob s said he had no prob. yes it may have went away when a/c off.in the past i have used additives favorite was 104 in the black bottle will this help?? topped offf half tank w/ exxon today will see if different tomorrow expect 77 outside

[elwesso]

TO be completely honest i havent been as impressed with the madmax program as i thought id be.. In fact, i think the regular stage 2 might have more power... Maybe i have my switcher numbers wrong, im not sure.... It goes to 7300 RPM so i think its how its meant to be....

[sijoko]

Was the pinging occuring in stop and go city traffic or on the open road?

Once the A/C is on, a lot of heat is introduced in front of the radiator. That combined with the lack of airflow at slow speeds will contribute to rising coolant temps which can lead to the pinging.

I wired a switch to the ground side of the stock electric fan relay so that I can turn it on if I get stuck in traffic.

If you can get an accurate measurement of the coolant temps, then you would at least know if the problem is with the new ECU or the cooling system on the car.

[jamesmost]

Was the pinging occuring in stop and go city traffic or on the open road?

Once the A/C is on, a lot of heat is introduced in front of the radiator. That combined with the lack of airflow at slow speeds will contribute to rising coolant temps which can lead to the pinging.

I wired a switch to the ground side of the stock electric fan relay so that I can turn it on if I get stuck in traffic.

If you can get an accurate measurement of the coolant temps, then you would at least know if the problem is with the new ECU or the cooling system on the car.Can u give me a retard diagram so i can do my switch as well??

[sijoko]

This is an easy mod to do. All your doing is manually grounding the A/C fan relay.

Find the ground side of the relay and then attach a wire to it. Then connect that wire to a simple toggle switch. The other terminal of the toggle switch has a wire that goes to any chassis ground.

Whenever you close the switch, the relay activates the Auxiliary Fan in front of the condenser. I put my switch inside my ash tray.

The cool thing is that you can now turn on the electric fan at will and yet still allow the ECU control over the fan, so you do not lose the built-in safeguards. This is great for the times you get stuck in traffic or when you go to the dragstrip and want to cool the engine down between rounds.

[elwesso]

Very cool idea sijoko.... Im going to wire mine up like that too..

I think what im going to do is put my trans cooler up there so when im stuck in traffic and it gets hot the fan will kick on...

[Q45tech]

Get a cheap RadioShack remote reading outdoor thermometer with 20 feet extension to the sensor. Min=Max........very useful to measure air temp ...place in front of air filter/MAF.........under plenum.........beside battery............between condenser/rad etc to map under hood temps.

In Summer the Q might benefit from a time delayed shutoff circulation fan[careful about battery drain] of under plenum air flow. Somethime like a turbotimer does for aux fans or add a smaller aux fan blowing under plenum.

A little more detail on knock/timing can be found here:http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/ignition/

This history explains why OBD2 from Japan is tough:http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/history/

MAF scaling an important read:http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/induction/

[jamesmost]

Tech - Great idea i have one of those and will install shortly.

My pinging was not in stop and go and thermostat was reading low.

Where is the fan relay, and which tab is ground ??

[Q45tech]

In God we trust. All others state the facts and cite references.

[sijoko]

My pinging was not in stop and go and thermostat was reading low.

Where is the fan relay, and which tab is ground ??

The temp gauge in the cluster is not linear. When it is in the middle you can have a wide range of temps.

I have a Techtom MDM-100 that shows me the temps from the coolant sensor. When the gauge gets to the middle, I have seen temps from 160 deg. to 220 degrees. The gauge never moved that much at all.

It was designed this way so as not freak out the drivers with too much information. But once you start modding a car, you can never have too much information.

I would get that Consult interface that was discussed on this board a few weeks ago. It seems to be a very good deal for the amount of info that it provides.

I paid over $450 just for my Techtom (this was over 5 years ago) and all it does is show me some of the info that the ECU is seeing. You can get the same features, plus more, in a Consult type interface for around $120 plus the cost of a cheap laptop.

As far as the location of the A/C Fan relay, it is in the fuse/relay box located behind the battery. When you remove the cover, you will see a location chart on it. Locate and remove the A/C relay.

Now you can figure out which socket is ground by using a multi-meter. The matching terminal on the relay is the one that you hook up your switch and wire to ground.

It is easy to do but just make sure you understand the concept before you start messing around with it.

[Q45tech]

I have seen temps from 160 deg. to 220 degrees. The gauge never moved that much at all.

Each individual gauge is different as is the calibration curve of the single wire thermister and they change over time [corrosion on sensor coolant interface].......system battery voltage inside cockpit temperature.

Since vehicle owners/drivers are assumed to have an automotive IQ of 12, why bother giving them information that will only stress their tiny brains?

[RobertsnewQ]

James - Are you running 17degrees base timing? That could be a factor.

It's hard to say, unfortunately all I have is 91 octane to tune on. I can make an educated guess about 93 octane timing but maybe in your case it is not so accurate.

I can put the regular timing map back in if you want.

Anyway, what RPM did you get pinging?

[Q45tech]

Just noticed he has a K&N open cone filter in his signature:WELL OF COURSE THERE WILL BE PINGING above 60F!

[elwesso]

Just noticed he has a K&N open cone filter in his signature:WELL OF COURSE THERE WILL BE PINGING above 60F!

[rsiwicki]

You guys really get off when you see somebody is using a K&N cone filter. Give me a break…..especially those who have no personal experience with one making comments based on others comments. I ran a K&N cone filter here in the Miami heat (and it is damn hot & humid here) for 2 years without a single problem with my custom very well designed heat shielf and 4"x10" ram air scoop stuck under the front bumper…trust me it gets plenty of outside air being ramed down the piping into the K&N air intake.

I also had a problem with the NICO MadMax programming so I don't think it is related to the K&N as others would certainly like to jump to conclusions to believe. I do believe it is heat related, but not 100% certain and my problem was somewhat different from James description. My car never pinged or anything but on 2 different occasions it has all of a sudden a loss of power at close to redline from only the 1~2 shift when it was warmer. It did this in February about a week before I went drag racing at Moroso and thought it was bad gas related, failure of transmission line the very next morning after noticing the problem the night before, or my timing set at 17*. After I had the transmission line replaced the next day and got comfortable driving it around again to make sure everything seemed okay it did not have the loss of power at redline anymore…so off to the track I went the following days and never did I have any problems with losing power at redline during my 1~2 shift and I can tell you that the car ran perfectly till 7,300rpms at the strip and several weeks afterwards. Now several weeks ago when I had taken the car around the block to get it washed and gass up one last time before Rex bought the car I noticed the same problem again…and of course it was hot again and it was also in the 80's back in February the week it first did this problem…since then it had been in the 70's as high's for the day and no problems. Funny thing is that it only loses power near the redline from the 1~2 shift…the 2~3 shift is fine. When I am referring to losing power it is like me taking my foot off the gas completely…something is being triggered telling the ECU to cut power instantly too the engine and of course I instantly take my foot off the gas as well. You can almost hear a very slight putter putter come out of the tail pipe…like a muffled back fire pop pop. The car runs fine when this happens and never shows any signs of any other problems idling fine, etc….but something is triggering the ECU to cut the engine power drastically…it is not a light power cut like knock sensors going bad…it is much more severe.

Maybe it is a combination of things and not related to one specific thing…but James and my car are setup very similar in that the timing, transmission, K&N cone filter, and exhaust (both no cats and very free flowing) are all almost identical and we drive the hell out of our cars.

[elwesso]

Your setup is different than James'.... he doesnt have the heat shield, and that obviously makes a huge difference! So your application of your car is almost as invalid as comparing others with stock airboxes... Your setup is closer to a stock airbox than James is for sure.... Esentially you have the stock intake with a cone filter!

Of course its not because you have a cone filte,r its because you have an OPEN CONE FILTER that lets even hotter air in than the ambient temps...

I will agree with you that the max program is kinda goofy, i just leave mine on the stage 2 all the time

[Q45tech]

In theory one needs to KNOW the EXACT fuel temperature octane sensitivity curve to correct advance to ambient air temperature.

Wait until the middle of May when the Summer Blends are available to evaluate.

Static initial advance must be set correctly at 15 BTDC!

We didn't say that ecu tuning REMOVES [a portion of] the factory built in SAFTEY for nothing!

[QShip]

We didn't say that ecu tuning REMOVES [a portion of] the factory built in SAFTEY for nothing!

LOL!

[Rex]

So the switchable ECU makes the most sense?

Would an Octane additive make a difference in warmer temps?

Would knowing the real engine temp be meaningful?

Would maintaining the engine temp help?

[jamesmost]

been meaning to but have not found the time to Box inmy K&N like robsmaybe this week

[Q45tech]

Over the year s I've run 2 diferent K&N type on my Q and spent months developing an insulated cool air cover and duct work for the Q.......with accurate temperature measuring probes to gather data.

My reversion to oem system was not without significant measurement and thought after running both systems over a separate Summer.

I've seen about 6 customer attempts to make cold air boxes all failed the actual temperature measurement tests vs oem as measured after the MAF.

Lots of work to reduced the after MAF pressure drop by 2-4" water column .

At best I've seen 4" [4/28= 1/7 x 6.8%=1% flow improvement [less restriction] = 3 HP IF THE TEMPERATURE IS NOT HIGHER.

BUT EVEN 11F HIGHER NEGATES all the gain.

If you change the turbulence in front of MAF you are likely to reduce the voltage generated and thus the ecu thinks leaner and thus the AF goes leaner and you might make more power.

The above may work in cold ambient and stock ecu BUT when you use a retuned ecu already leaner you can overdo it and lose power or increase engine heat and allow knock to start.

Notice never do the dyno test that support cone filter power improvements EVER show the MAF voltage with and without cone at same rpm.

This was a noticed trick that early tester reported to cone manufacturers on MAF with tuned ram horns........the volume of air space feeding the ram horn is critical to tuning/calibrating the MAF at high rpms.

Change the air volume and you change the MAF calibration!

At high flows 4.2>4.3 or 4.3>4.4 volts is roughly enough air for a potential 15 more HP so an error here could lean AF ratio by up to 3% depending on load step and underlying calculation.

Under hood heat soak is tremendous even with oem design, haven't gotten around to trying insulation atop the existing oem design but I am sure it would help but not as much as hood louvers or exhaust fans.