got into an accident

[Hussain]

ok so I was exiting the hwy and turning right. there are 2 right turn lanes and I took the left one.... here in California you can make a right turn on a red light.... so I was exiting and stop at a red light. look right, no pedestrians or anything. look left, theirs a couple cars coming so I wait less then 30 seconds and see an opening in the traffic so I hit the gas. as I hit the gas I turn my head to face forward since I was looking to the left for on coming traffic. as I hit the gas and turn my head forward, I see a guy on a bike in front of my car. take my foot off the gas and hit the brake right away but it was too late and I hit the guy on the bike. I guess he was coming hella fast on his bike because I looked and there was no one there and he just came out of no where.

so I hit the guy and he fell off his bike. right away I put the car in park and put my hazard lights on and get out of the car. he says "WTF?!!!" and I say I'm sorry, I didnt see you, are you ok? he says "YA!" and gets on his bike and pedals away. so I was like huh? so he must have been fine if he just got on his bike and pedaled away.... I got lucky I didnt hurt him and I got lucky he wasnt one of those a** holes who try and say "my back hurts and my leg hurts" and try to sue me when they are really perfectly fine. so I get in my car and drive away (since he already pedaled away, I did NOT do a hit and run). when I get to my destination I see my front bumper and these deep scratches (looks 1,000 times worse in person). but things could have been A LOT WORSE so I'm happy.

[nismogxs21]

Damn bro sorry to here bout your whip... but honestly YOU GOT OFF EASY. I'd take a couple of deep scratches n dents over a LAW SUIT anyday...

[nig1]

u got extremely extremely lucky. just be glad u saved $$$$$$$$$$ and headaches. I'd be pissed if I damaged my front-end but reading ur story, I'd be the happiest guy w/a scratched bumper.

[Hussain]

Ya I'm happy that's all that happen. things could be MUCH worse. the scratches on the bumper are bad but I'm not worried because I can get my whole fascia repainted for probably $100 from a guy I know that does a good job.

[adidas2go]

Ouch dude. Glad you only came out with a scratch, there could have been a dead guy under your tires had this carried on a few more seconds.

[srwong]

wow, that sucks. glad u both are ok. that fascia can get fixed easily..

[Rmuth25]

So you were turning right and he was crossing the intersection? Because if thats the case I think he was in the fault then. Unless if the pedestrian cross light thing was on.

On a side note, bikers make me so mad. 90% of them are too arrogant or stupid (probably both) to realize that ALL of the rules of the roads apply to them as well. Most bikers I encounter never stop at any stop signs even if there are cars stopped and moving through the intersection.

[White_SR]

Yikes! Glad you're ok and that guy too. You might want to consider maybe reporting the incident to the police "just in case" you know? All that aside though, get that car fixed asap!

[IBCoupe]

Was he in a bike lane or something?

If you're turning right and you didn't see him coming from the left, he was on the wrong side of the road. That's if the laws by you are the same way as they are by me.

[BamaCoupe]

Technically I believe he (man on the bike) would be at fault; yes it's great that he is okay, and I'm sure you felt bad about hitting a man on a bike. I'm only saying this incase he got your tag number before he peddled off and plans to pursue it later. Anyways there is two things if the laws are the same in California as they and here in Alabama, but pedestrians only have right-of-way when the walk line (two lines marked on the road from one sidewalk to the other) are marked on the roadway. the second thing is that it sounds like he was traveling on the wrong side of the road; this is why when you are walking or traveling on bike you are suppose to be on the correct side of the road (same side of the road in which you are traveling the same direction as the motor vehicles; oncoming traffic coming toward your back), because when you're not you are in the blind side of a vehicle making a right turn. more times then not people walking or on a bike travel on the wrong side of the road because they fill more comfortable traveling in a direction where they can see oncoming traffic, but when you do you are putting yourself at risk of what happened here. The only thing he would might have you on is that the light being red, and he would be considered oncoming traffic, but with him traveling on the wrong side of the road the at fault maybe a 50/50. But anyways think goodness it was not worse then it was.

[Hussain]

ya he was going the wrong way. the cars were going from my left to my right and he came from my right going towards my left. I was looking to the left and didnt see him come from the right. I was stopped at a red light and the guy was in a cross walk.

[BlackMamba08]

So you were turning right and he was crossing the intersection? Because if thats the case I think he was in the fault then. Unless if the pedestrian cross light thing was on.

On a side note, bikers make me so mad. 90% of them are too arrogant or stupid (probably both) to realize that ALL of the rules of the roads apply to them as well. Most bikers I encounter never stop at any stop signs even if there are cars stopped and moving through the intersection.

Really, biker's fault? I mean granted, the no pedestrian crossing light could've been on, but seriously you would put fault on the biker over someone driving a car who states that he was stopped at the red light and looking left after he saw nothing to his right. The fact that he said he looked left for for on coming traffic for less than 30 seconds...30 seconds! Could be anywhere between 1-29...that's a long time for something to happen coming from the right side...a side he totally ignored while trying to turn...on a red light. I know it's legal and all to turn on a red, but only when it's clear and safe to do so. So ruth, i doubt it was the biker's fault. I mean granted, the biker was on the wrong side of the road (biker's fault), but what's to say if it were a pedestrian? They can cross on both sides of the road and he still wouldn't have seen the pedestrian should he had proceeded the same way.

i mean sure 90% of the bikers...according to your own experience with them...but they don't need a license to ride a bike. As a responsible, law-abiding driver, he should've looked right once more and left again before hitting the gas. I'm not sure what the laws are from where you are...but in CA...when stopped, you gotta look left, right and left again before crossing any intersection. that right look he gave some odd seconds before doesn't really count as many things can change in just 5 seconds.

Sorry to rant about this, but i think it's just irresponsible to blame the biker. Even hussain said he got away lucky...sorta. He did everything right after he hit the biker. Stopped and made sure the biker was okay and proceeded along his way after the biker seemed to want nothing more of the situation.

Glad to hear everything is okay though...good luck with getting the facia repainted!

[IBCoupe]

Black, I don't usually like blaming bikers. I hold a lot of sympathy for them.

But what side of the road bikers are supposed to be on is common knowledge. If he was riding on the wrong side of the road, he was riding in violation of a law meant to protect him.

My sympathies are seriously tested with the boneheaded.

[adidas2go]

He's on a bike, hes no longer a pedestrian. He follows all the rules of vehicles.

[Hussain]

I looked to the right and there was no one in sight. then a looked left for less then 30 seconds (like 15 seconds) and then when I'm going hes right in front of me. which means he didnt stop at the intersection, he just came fast from no where

[BlackMamba08]

He's on a bike, hes no longer a pedestrian. He follows all the rules of vehicles.

Sure, he's on a bike...but if the crosswalk is not clear...the law still states that the driver cannot proceed to turn. Sure the biker was also at fault...but the law still holds for turning on a red light. The intersection has to be clear regardless if it is a pedestrian, biker or of whatever. You cannot blindly drive through without making sure both ways are clear.

[Rmuth25]

Really, biker's fault? I mean granted, the no pedestrian crossing light could've been on, but seriously you would put fault on the biker over someone driving a car who states that he was stopped at the red light and looking left after he saw nothing to his right. The fact that he said he looked left for for on coming traffic for less than 30 seconds...30 seconds! Could be anywhere between 1-29...that's a long time for something to happen coming from the right side...a side he totally ignored while trying to turn...on a red light. I know it's legal and all to turn on a red, but only when it's clear and safe to do so. So ruth, i doubt it was the biker's fault. I mean granted, the biker was on the wrong side of the road (biker's fault), but what's to say if it were a pedestrian? They can cross on both sides of the road and he still wouldn't have seen the pedestrian should he had proceeded the same way.

i mean sure 90% of the bikers...according to your own experience with them...but they don't need a license to ride a bike. As a responsible, law-abiding driver, he should've looked right once more and left again before hitting the gas. I'm not sure what the laws are from where you are...but in CA...when stopped, you gotta look left, right and left again before crossing any intersection. that right look he gave some odd seconds before doesn't really count as many things can change in just 5 seconds.

Sorry to rant about this, but i think it's just irresponsible to blame the biker. Even hussain said he got away lucky...sorta. He did everything right after he hit the biker. Stopped and made sure the biker was okay and proceeded along his way after the biker seemed to want nothing more of the situation.

Glad to hear everything is okay though...good luck with getting the facia repainted!

From the responses above it looks like the biker was riding on the wrong side of the road...AKA HIS FAULT.

[BlackMamba08]

From the responses above it looks like the biker was riding on the wrong side of the road...AKA HIS FAULT.

You fail to acknowledge that there's negligence on the driver's part. I'm well aware that the law states that bikers must be on the same side of the road as the flow of traffic. Like i previously said, the biker is also at fault...but putting full blame on the biker is irresponsible. As a licensed driver you should know to look both ways before crossing an intersection or making that right turn on a red light. And sure the biker was on the wrong side of the road, i got that and that's your only point...but i will also point out again that the intersection MUST BE CLEAR before the driver can proceed and turn right on a red light and in this case...it wasn't.

There are other things/people in the road that the driver must account for...likewise with the biker. But if everyone drove and road like the biker...there would be chaos. Sure you can put fault on biker, but the driver in this situation clearly acknowledges negligence. 15 seconds of glaring at the traffic from the left while ignoring what could possibly happen from the right. Anything could've gotten in front of him and he would not have noticed. Anything is possible. But to put full blame on a biker is just plain irresponsible in this scenario.

[Hussain]

well in 15 seconds I dont think "anything can happen" because if their is no one in sight, you would have to be going pretty fast to come to the intersection, stop and see if it were clear, and proceed half way through the intersection in 15 seconds. I couldnt walk that fast and on a bike, sure people can but that means they wern't looking if cars were trying to turn or anything and just sped through the intersection. I'm no lawyer so I could be wrong, he could be wrong, we both could be wrong. I'm just glad he wasnt hurt and that all I got were some scrapes on my front fascia

[Trancer88]

LMAO DUDE the same s*** happened to me couple years ago and this was with my dads bronco. Two guys, same situtation except one was on the bike and the other was just walking with him. Hit him and he fell off his bike too. I was asking him if he was ok in spanish, he just kinda looked at me while his friend laughed at him. He was ok though and they just went along. I was scared as s*** but it was a good thing no one got hurt you know.

[IBCoupe]

BlackMamba,

If it had been a guy walking his bike through the intersection, you'd be right. But in fifteen seconds, it doesn't seem very likely that a pedestrian will appear from where he or she wasn't before, and walk into the intersection in front of a car. So even if he had run down some guy walking in front of him, his actions may not constitute negligence if they weren't unreasonable.

But it wasn't. This was a cyclist who would have been in absolutely no danger from the car (and here's the key phrase:) but for his own actions. That's contributory negligence. Once again, my sympathy is spared for those who are worthy of it. Had it been any other vehicle as defined by law that drove on the wrong side of the road, into a crosswalk (potentially in violation of local regulations), and then got upset and stormed off after causing an accident, you wouldn't be making the same argument you are now.

Or if you would, I would applaud you for your commitment to playing the devil's advocate.

[adidas2go]

Get em Sherlock

[BlackMamba08]

BlackMamba,

If it had been a guy walking his bike through the intersection, you'd be right. But in fifteen seconds, it doesn't seem very likely that a pedestrian will appear from where he or she wasn't before, and walk into the intersection in front of a car. So even if he had run down some guy walking in front of him, his actions may not constitute negligence if they weren't unreasonable.

But it wasn't. This was a cyclist who would have been in absolutely no danger from the car (and here's the key phrase:) but for his own actions. That's contributory negligence. Once again, my sympathy is spared for those who are worthy of it. Had it been any other vehicle as defined by law that drove on the wrong side of the road, into a crosswalk (potentially in violation of local regulations), and then got upset and stormed off after causing an accident, you wouldn't be making the same argument you are now.

Or if you would, I would applaud you for your commitment to playing the devil's advocate.

okay...so let me get your reasoning...you're saying that it was okay for the driver to totally ignore whatever is in front of him because a biker was on his bike and not walking it? and that the driver does not have to acknowledge his surroundings before proceeding safely? also because that 15 seconds ago, nothing appeared to be to his right that absolutely nothing will be there when he feels like proceeding. and the most important part, apparently, because this guy was on his bike, it's his fault? Also to note is that the driver is on the LEFT lane of two RIGHT turn lanes. who is to say that he didn't look long or hard enough to notice anything there when there was probably another car to his right (why else to be in the left lane of two right turn lanes, unless of course he needed to make an immediate left afterwards), but who knows truly.

what i'm basically saying is that since when is it okay for a driver not to have to look forward before hitting the gas and going? you might as well just drive blindfolded. i'm not trying to play devil's advocate, i'm just trying to point out the fact that it's a little harsh to blame a biker for scuffing this guy's bumper. Regardless with the biker being in the wrong for going the wrong way, all i'm saying is that, the driver still has the responsibility to check both ways...and especially IN FRONT of him before going. all i was saying was that putting full responsibility on the biker for scuffing a man's bumper is wrong especially when it's a bike going against a 1.5 ton moving mass.

Not everyone is well informed about the laws of riding a bike. But, i'm assuming people are somewhat informed on how to drive a car since they had to take a test to get their license. Where in the driver's handbook does it say that it is okay to proceed when there is something obstructing your clear path? so for the last time...i'm not putting full blame on the driver, but it is a fault of both. I've never denied that it was the bikers fault as well. I was only saying that it was wrong to put the FULL blame onto the biker just because he was on his bike and not walking it across the intersection in the wrong direction.

and if you want to throw in an improbable situation (i say improbable because there were cars going in the direction the driver wanted to go, so i'm sure the guy going the wrong way would've been hit by one of those cars already), what if it were your little brother or your kid or just someone you knew that didn't know to ride on what side of the road. would you still defend the driver for not looking forward or once again to the right before proceeding safely? would you still blame the biker? honestly?

this was all i was saying: IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DRIVER TO PROCEED SAFELY, and clearly, this did not happen. all i wanted to say was...look in ALL directions before proceeding because anything can happen. i know, i knew someone who got hit by a car who wasn't looking before turning. he wasn't as lucky to get up and pedal off so easily, but thankfully it was nothing life threatening. ironic thing was, the driver stated in the police report that he didn't see anyone when he looked that way.

and again before you want to jump on my back...in this scenario, BLAME IS ON BOTH PARTIES, not just the biker.

[srwong]

wow, Black, if u weren't a dude id swear you were pms'ing.. lol jk

no need to get all crazy. from what the driver was saying, was to his knowledge it was clear. and even checked on the biker to see if he was ok. it happens all the time with bikers, they just dart out of nowhere. just because the driver was in a more powerful vehicle, doesn't mean that the biker wasn't at fault also. the other members were just saying that bikers also have rules to follow, such as riding on the correct side of the road. and he should proceed when it was safe & clear.

you're making it seem (or at least to me) that just because he was on a less powerful means of transportation, that he shouldn't be to blame. pedestrians cause accidents everyday. jaywalking, crossing the street without pressing the crosswalk button. all illegal, and could receive a ticket for. it is legal to turn on a red light, and he was stopped before the turn. the biker should have seen that and waited to cross the street instead of ASSUMING that every car there would just stop at the drop of a dime just so the biker could get on his way.

its obvious that the biker did not use the crosswalk button because 9/10 times if u press it after the light has already been green, you will have to wait for the next set of lights to go. so in reality, the biker was obstructing traffic by riding IN FRONT of the car. Everyone knows that if the driver is looking in a different direction, then he cannot see u. so u should be cautious. no one is saying he should ignore what was in front of him. Hussain looked both ways, and it was clear. Then when he looked back to see oncoming traffic so he could cross (which is what the biker should have done) the biker came out of nowhere and crossed IN FRONT of him. So he wasnt ignoring the biker, he clearly just didn't see him. it happens. he never said he didnt do anything. we're just saying the the biker could have went about crossing the street a little more carefully and followed the laws. specially on a street that an exit is on and cars are coming from the freeway. a lot of cars dont even stop, they just go.

i almost hit a kid on a bike before. he illegally crossed the street when i was turning left (on a green arrow, so legally he can not cross) and when i was in middle of road about to turn he darts out in front of me and i swerved and missed him. then he calls out to me saying i need to watch where im going. when i was in the right of way, and he was supposed to wait. he wasnt even on the corner when i was turning. he came out of nowhere also. a lot of bikers like to think that cars ALWAYS have to stop and let them pass. but thats not true. because it takes a lot longer for a car to stop, and we cant always dodge them. its like a car turning or running a red light when another car or a pedestrian has the right of way. it would be the one is broke the law first who caused the accident. i dated a sheriff, so i was drilled laws into my head.

this thread was simply posted because Hussain got into a lil accident and since this is a car forum, he shared his story with us. and you have made it out to be this whole big ordeal which wasn't necessary. this matter should just be dropped, and left as is. both parties are ok. and if the biker was hurt he would have said something, and wouldn't have pedaled away so quickly, just as he had entered the road. but he didn't. it could have ended a lot worse, but lucky it didn't. so lets just focus on that.

now everyone hug and play nice... lol

my .02

(this is not an attack, just trying to bring peace. I understand both sides)
Modified by srwong at 1:36 AM 4/11/2010

[BlackMamba08]

SRWONG,

Like i've been saying, over and over again, both parties are to blame. if you would just read a little more instead of just saying i was "pms'ing," for lack of a better word, because of a couple of long posts. I said that it was wrong of some people to put the full blame on the biker alone. Please do read before you post nonsense. I too blame the biker as well, but again, when is it okay for a driver to not look forward before proceeding?

I wait less then 30 seconds and see an opening in the traffic so I hit the gas. as I hit the gas I turn my head to face forward since I was looking to the left for on coming traffic. as I hit the gas and turn my head forward, I see a guy on a bike in front of my car.

did he not just say that his head was always to the left? so when he found an opening, he should've looked forward and to the right and back to the left before it was a safe maneuver. so again...and i will not repeat myself after this because clearly no one pays attention...

BOTH ARE TO BLAME, NOT JUST THE BIKER. ...just because it's in CAPS...doesn't mean i'm PMSing. just for those that choose not to read and mouth off... i'm done with this thread.

[IBCoupe]

okay...so let me get your reasoning...you're saying that it was okay for the driver to totally ignore whatever is in front of him because a biker was on his bike and not walking it? and that the driver does not have to acknowledge his surroundings before proceeding safely? also because that 15 seconds ago, nothing appeared to be to his right that absolutely nothing will be there when he feels like proceeding. and the most important part, apparently, because this guy was on his bike, it's his fault? Also to note is that the driver is on the LEFT lane of two RIGHT turn lanes. who is to say that he didn't look long or hard enough to notice anything there when there was probably another car to his right (why else to be in the left lane of two right turn lanes, unless of course he needed to make an immediate left afterwards), but who knows truly.

what i'm basically saying is that since when is it okay for a driver not to have to look forward before hitting the gas and going? you might as well just drive blindfolded. i'm not trying to play devil's advocate, i'm just trying to point out the fact that it's a little harsh to blame a biker for scuffing this guy's bumper. Regardless with the biker being in the wrong for going the wrong way, all i'm saying is that, the driver still has the responsibility to check both ways...and especially IN FRONT of him before going. all i was saying was that putting full responsibility on the biker for scuffing a man's bumper is wrong especially when it's a bike going against a 1.5 ton moving mass.

Not everyone is well informed about the laws of riding a bike. But, i'm assuming people are somewhat informed on how to drive a car since they had to take a test to get their license. Where in the driver's handbook does it say that it is okay to proceed when there is something obstructing your clear path? so for the last time...i'm not putting full blame on the driver, but it is a fault of both. I've never denied that it was the bikers fault as well. I was only saying that it was wrong to put the FULL blame onto the biker just because he was on his bike and not walking it across the intersection in the wrong direction.

and if you want to throw in an improbable situation (i say improbable because there were cars going in the direction the driver wanted to go, so i'm sure the guy going the wrong way would've been hit by one of those cars already), what if it were your little brother or your kid or just someone you knew that didn't know to ride on what side of the road. would you still defend the driver for not looking forward or once again to the right before proceeding safely? would you still blame the biker? honestly?

this was all i was saying: IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DRIVER TO PROCEED SAFELY, and clearly, this did not happen. all i wanted to say was...look in ALL directions before proceeding because anything can happen. i know, i knew someone who got hit by a car who wasn't looking before turning. he wasn't as lucky to get up and pedal off so easily, but thankfully it was nothing life threatening. ironic thing was, the driver stated in the police report that he didn't see anyone when he looked that way.

and again before you want to jump on my back...in this scenario, BLAME IS ON BOTH PARTIES, not just the biker.

A couple of things:1. It makes a world of difference as to whether or not the guy is riding his bike. Either he's a pedestrian, and is free to walk either on a sidewalk/in a crosswalk/against traffic, or he's traveling in a vehicle, and he's not. The fact is that the biker was breaking a law, and while that doesn't amount to negligence in and of itself, it does when the law is designed to prevent the very thing that happened: an accident with an automobile.2. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.3. Children are different (most states use a "reasonable child" standard), but I got the impression that this guy was an adult.

I think we're in agreement on one thing: it was a fairly innocent mistake on all parts. The biker should have looked before entering the crosswalk, and Hussain should have looked both ways for longer than he did. But the cyclist made one extra mistake on top of that: he was on the wrong side of the road. So, (and here's where I get all lawyery and muck up the waters) if we're in an area of comparative negligence, it's possible that Hussain would be party liable for any injuries of the cyclist, but if we're looking at strict contributory negligence, Hussain would pay nothing because it was the cyclist who was the most responsible for his own injuries.

I'm reminded a little of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in Baltimore & Ohio Railroad v. Goodman: a 1927 case where Holmes declared that a driver of a truck, if he is unsure of whether or not a train is coming should stop, get out, look and listen for a train, then get back in his truck and drive off. Holmes admitted that often there would be little need to do more than stop the truck and look out the windows, but a few years later, another Supreme Court case came up and overruled that standard. Letters at the time pointed out that Justice Holmes was 80-years-old and chauffered around in a horse-drawn wagon when he wrote the opinion.

I'm not trying to dump on you, dude, it's just that when there are three mistakes, two innocent and one stupid, the side with the stupid one loses, in my book.

EDIT: And I'd just like to point out that I completely agree with you - the onus is on us as drivers to, at all times, be wary of our surroundings and to do our best to anticipate the possibility that anything could happen. I just happen to extend this requirement to cyclists, too.
Modified by IBCoupe at 11:58 AM 4/11/2010

[nig1]

reminds me of the last time I was in defensive driving. Instructor asked, "what do u do when the light turns green?" Some peeps said just drive but the instructor replied "No! You must first check to ur left and right for any cars, then proceed ahead."

[2008AltiCoupeDan]

a pedestrian wouldn't have made a gash in his bumper lol.

Hussain- glad he wasnt hurt- and hopefully the car will be buffed an redone asap (just throw ur plate over that part haha)

[PHENOMenalVinyl]

well in 15 seconds I dont think "anything can happen" because if their is no one in sight, you would have to be going pretty fast to come to the intersection, stop and see if it were clear, and proceed half way through the intersection in 15 seconds. I couldnt walk that fast and on a bike, sure people can but that means they wern't looking if cars were trying to turn or anything and just sped through the intersection. I'm no lawyer so I could be wrong, he could be wrong, we both could be wrong. I'm just glad he wasnt hurt and that all I got were some scrapes on my front fascia

i would say delete this thread just in case n you did look right and he wasnt there then looked left and went no delay......just tryin to help ya just in case i never posted my accident for this reason

[adidas2go]

Alright guys. Settle down.