Got Exhibition of speed ticket

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240SXer
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Okay, I’m at the pool hall with some friends and I'm leaving, my friend tells me to take off when I leave to be cool, so I take off with the tires engulfed and right when I’m making a turn out of the lot I hit some water that was in the gutter and I slide sideways, I controlled the car perfectly. But right as I did that a Highway Patrol :( was coming the other way. I immediately pulled over knowing he's gonna do it any. He pulls me over and bla bla bla gives me a ticket for 23109(C), I acted like a wuss so he wouldn’t want to be a **** back to me and pop my hood. Luckily he didn’t :) Anyway, now I got this ticket, i think the fine is like 500 bux and it's a 2-point ticket, which can also be bumped up to a Misdemeanor.

I'm thinking I can say I took off normally and I hit some ice in the gutter (it was about 33 degrees with a wind-chill of 26), which made me slide. I'm thinking I can have it reduced to a lower offence? I'm not sure which others there are. Or maybe nothing at all. There was ice/water on the ground.

I don't need people telling me how wrong it is to lie and bla bla bla i need to take it. I'm trying to get out of it. I'm well aware of any moral issues and I don't care.

Any ideas on how I could fight this? It's highway patrol so I’m pretty sure they'll show up. I can prove there was ice. I just have to prove that me sliding was not exhibition. I think I’ve got a good argument. Please no flames.

i'm in California btw...

23109 - (c) No person shall engage in any motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and no person shall aid or abet in any motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.


civics91
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i would get pics of were it was if there is ice there and show them and tell then its rwd with a light *** end it may help a little but thats my 2 cents

Aristotle
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It also helps to know a lawyer for advice. They got loopholes galore.

Oh, and seeing that its a 500 dollar ticket, I dont know if its worth hiring a lawyer. My bro did when he got caught going 130, ticket was above 1000 dollars. But his lawyer got him out of it and that cost him like 300-400 dollars. But if your lawyer doesnt get you out of it that money would go to waste.

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You're saying with a suggestion by your friends, you showboated by lighting up your tires coming out of a parking lot sideways onto a public street in front of a cop and who ticketed you for showboating? Hopefully you won't comply when your friends suggest you jump off a bridge. My recommendation is if you're guilty, plead not guily on the citation, go to court, plead no-contest, and ask for mercy from the judge. There's a good chance you'll get the ticket reduced to a non-points violation if you're honest, respectful, and appear remorseful with both the judge and officer..

You gotta realize if you fight it in court, you have to convince a judge (who is not a drift fan) that you weren't showing off when you appeared to be driving like a moron. And lying is not a smart thing to do in court. The cop is going to offer testimony of what he saw, so whatever you testify should not contradict what he says he saw you do. The ice patch by itself is no excuse because if you were drivng responsibly in a parking lot, you would have seen it. And good drivers don't floor it when they hit ice. Catch my "drift"? A more palatable hypothetical excuse would be to say you say you saw a gap in traffic while you were waiting to exit the lot, and that you felt if you could accelerate very quickly you could safely merge with traffic. Your intention was to merge, and not show off. And hitting the icy patch under heavy acceleration made you unintentionally slide forcing you to make steering corrections. Of course if the cop observed you drivng like an imbecile sliding out onto the street without slowing or stopping to observe traffic, in front of a cloud of tire smoke, then that excuse will pretty much get you a guilty verdict, and your fine will then include court costs, and you'll get those points and insurance surcharges.

I still think honesty is by far your best move. But regardless of what you do here, I hope you change your attitude and drive more responsibly as your luck will eventually run out.

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Camel
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Bubba1, I like the way you think man.

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240sxin
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:Werd

240SXer
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The cop saw that it was really clear... there weren’t any cars coming down the street. Negligence in driving does not necessarily mean exhibition of speed. I'm trying to find a different charge that I can try to plea to. Isn’t there something like a 'failure to control vehicle' or something like that? I wouldn’t mind paying and such, but I don't want to have a point on my record. I've already fought 2 tickets and got out of them :)

Supafly
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240SXer wrote: Isn’t there something like a 'failure to control vehicle' or something like that?


here that's called wreckless driving and that's worse than exhibition of speed.;)

Altiman94
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that sounds more like a case of careless driving than it does exhibition of speed

240SXer
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Does me sliding because there was ice necessarily mean I’m driving reckless or exhibition of speed? I don't think so.. I think I’m going to get a lawyer, either that or take my chances that the cop won't show up. I feel like I’ll lose even with a lawyer so maybe I’d be better off saving that money to go towards the ticket and fighting it myself. There was lots of ice. It rained on the 25th and there was still a lot of water around in the gutters. The temp was freezing too. I dunno.. It's highway patrol and I hear they usually show up.

Isnt there a unsafe turn charge? Maybe I can plea for that one..

240SXer
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It looks like these other charges would have been just as good. I'm gonna look into getting it reduced into one of these:

22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

22100. Except as provided in Section 22100.5 or 22101, the driver of any vehicle intending to turn upon a highway shall do so as follows: (a) Right Turns. Both the approach for a right-hand turn and aright-hand turn shall be made as close as practicable to theright-hand curb or edge of the roadway except:

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Bubba1
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240SXer: Well, it's not your job to identify and suggest a lesser charge. That's entirely up to the officer and ultimately the judge. In most court appearances, you'll commonly get to meet with the officer just prior to seeing the judge. That's your critical moment. If you act responsibly, sincerely, and show respect to the officer, and not yank his chain by making up BS lies when you both know you're guilty, there's a good chance that officer will reduce it to a non-moving violation. Certainly not a sure thing, but the last thing an officer wants to do is to waste extra time before a judge arguing about something of which you're clearly guilty. If the officer is kind enough to offer you a reduced charge that involves no points, the name of that charge is IRRELEVANT!!!!. Just agree to the dang thing, call it a day, and consider it a huge warning sign that you better alter your driving habits.Good luck

Japican
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Similar thing happened to my friend in his camaro, it was rainin out and he was at a stop. Wen he launched his tires wouldnt catch gear so they started peelin out and some smoke came outta his tire and cop pulled him over for reckless drivin. He tried fightin it and lost. Cops or judges dont care that ur car is RWD or ne of that crap they feel u should be able to control ur car at all times.

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Bubba1
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Consulting a lawyer is a good idea, but do not expect them to lie for you, and they are not free. You're gonna have to pay them whether you win or lose, so keep that in mind. And they are also not cheap. Also, if you come out the gates suggesting reduced charges to the officer or judge, they'll almost certainly consider you an arrogrant kid who obviously doesn't get it. Do not be surprised when you get a fast conviction on the original count. Trust me you're approaching it the wrong way. Honesty, sincerity, respect, all wonderful concepts, and it's the best approach.

Altiman94
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it was reckless driving if people were around. Careless driving if people weren't

Phax
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Go to court and fight it. Plead no contest. First of all, the cop probably won't even show up. If he does, go with the fact that you were making a turn, in a rear wheel drive car, under slick road conditions. Point out to the judge that you kept control of the vehicle, and if you can, make the cop admit that yes, you kept control of the vehicle, didn't hit a curb, or anyone else.

Any judge who has driven a rear wheel drive vehicle in less than ideal conditions will understand where you are coming from. It's not like you dumped the clutch and lit up the tires for half a block. You were making a turn, hit some slick pavement, and kept the car under control. You're a good driver. :D

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C-Kwik
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240SXer wrote:It looks like these other charges would have been just as good. I'm gonna look into getting it reduced into one of these:

22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

22100. Except as provided in Section 22100.5 or 22101, the driver of any vehicle intending to turn upon a highway shall do so as follows: (a) Right Turns. Both the approach for a right-hand turn and aright-hand turn shall be made as close as practicable to theright-hand curb or edge of the roadway except:


These cannot apply. Look at the intent of the laws. 22107 is basically saying not to make a turning movement until it is asafe to do so. Essentially, so that you don't hit another car.

22350. Basic Speed law. I doubt they would cite you for this unless you actually hit someone or an officer was presenting a prima facie case for breaking the speed limit.

22100. This just says to turn from as close as possible to the right edge of the road. Say if you are going to turn onto another street, or into a driveway, you stay as close to the right side as possible so that it physically signals your intenet to turn right, and block another vehicle from passing you on the right before you make the turn. You won't believe how many people get into accidents for failing to do this.

I'll say it's not better to plead down your case in my opinion. I think the judge will just think you are avoiding a 2 point offense. By trying to plead down, you are giving somekind of inference that you did something wrong. I doubt he would offer this anyways. Though, if it is a misdemeanor, you will get an opportunity to talk to a DA. You can attempt to make a bargain with him. And if neither agrees, the discussions you have aren't allowed in court. Only the evidence of the offense available. Basically your statement against the cop's statement in this case. It comes down to credibility. But judges usually see a cop's testimony as credible unless you can show reason for doubt.

It's hard to say what the best angle is. Give us more detail as to what happened. How long was this burnout? Time and distance. Was there any noise? Smoke? How wide a slide was it? What was traffic like? What time was it? What was visibiity like? What conversations did you have with the officer? And please be honest. The best defense is knowing exactly what you are looking at. Also, it helps to be able to establish what the officer might say as well. But I am thinking it would be best to build a case around whether or not it was your intention to slide your car out. If you weren't racing another car, or taking off with the gas pedal to the floor, then it might be hard for the officer to prove you meant to do that. But again, it comes down to credibility.

Bubba, cops in CA seem to show up right before they need to. Almost as if they've scheduled a time to show up. So far, I've been to court 6 times and I've never even seen the officer that issued my citation before the court opens.

240SXer
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Altiman94 wrote:it was reckless driving if people were around. Careless driving if people weren't


There wasnt anyone around. It was a 5 lane street (2 each way + center), he was the only other car coming in the oposite direction.

MainEvent212
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there is a "failure to maintain vehicle control"

it's much lesser then wreckless because this can occur at low speed....my friend got this on a really rainy night when he ended up backwards in someones yard...got real lucky...slid right thru the driveway entrance...no suspension damage, only some cosmetic damage, but he had to take a drivers improvement course n stuff

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Camel
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Phax wrote:It's not like you dumped the clutch and lit up the tires for half a block.


Phax - I think that he pretty much covered this with this statement.
240SXer wrote:my friend tells me to take off when I leave to be cool, so I take off with the tires engulfed and right when I’m making a turn out of the lot I hit some water that was in the gutter and I slide sideways, I controlled the car perfectly.
I wonder if a prosecutor could enter this thread into evidence? That would suck wouldn't it. Hope he isn't a gearhead that drives a Nissan......LOL.

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tell them your clutch is bad! :)

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Bubba1
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C-Kwik wrote:These cannot apply. Look at the intent of the laws. 22107 is basically saying not to make a turning movement until it is asafe to do so. Essentially, so that you don't hit another car.

22350. Basic Speed law. I doubt they would cite you for this unless you actually hit someone or an officer was presenting a prima facie case for breaking the speed limit.

22100. This just says to turn from as close as possible to the right edge of the road. Say if you are going to turn onto another street, or into a driveway, you stay as close to the right side as possible so that it physically signals your intenet to turn right, and block another vehicle from passing you on the right before you make the turn. You won't believe how many people get into accidents for failing to do this.

I'll say it's not better to plead down your case in my opinion. I think the judge will just think you are avoiding a 2 point offense. By trying to plead down, you are giving somekind of inference that you did something wrong. I doubt he would offer this anyways. Though, if it is a misdemeanor, you will get an opportunity to talk to a DA. You can attempt to make a bargain with him. And if neither agrees, the discussions you have aren't allowed in court. Only the evidence of the offense available. Basically your statement against the cop's statement in this case. It comes down to credibility. But judges usually see a cop's testimony as credible unless you can show reason for doubt.

It's hard to say what the best angle is. Give us more detail as to what happened. How long was this burnout? Time and distance. Was there any noise? Smoke? How wide a slide was it? What was traffic like? What time was it? What was visibiity like? What conversations did you have with the officer? And please be honest. The best defense is knowing exactly what you are looking at. Also, it helps to be able to establish what the officer might say as well. But I am thinking it would be best to build a case around whether or not it was your intention to slide your car out. If you weren't racing another car, or taking off with the gas pedal to the floor, then it might be hard for the officer to prove you meant to do that. But again, it comes down to credibility.

Bubba, cops in CA seem to show up right before they need to. Almost as if they've scheduled a time to show up. So far, I've been to court 6 times and I've never even seen the officer that issued my citation before the court opens.


Well said, C-Kwik. I defer to you as I've never been to a CA court house. I suspect many district courts and police dept.s have theirown rules about officer attendance at traffic court. I've been to court many times out here as a juror or expert witness (thru my previous job), though not as a defendant. I had the opportunity to watch a lot of plea deals offered by officers in the hallways to defendants, as well as sit thru a few hearings (while waiting for the cases I was involved with). Fascinating stuff. What I noticed was how sincere the defendant presented himself went a long way with the officer's or court's decision to offer a plea bargain. I watched several, sloppily dressed, unrepentent kids request pleas, and they not only got convicted quickly of the original charges, they got reprimanded by the judge. If you play it maturely & honestly, I'm sure you'll survive it fine.

If your primary concern is avoiding points (which might result in an insurance surcharge), then who gives a rat's rectum whether it's a 22100, 123456 or Jaywalking? You TAKE THE DEAL if its a charge that does not involve points. They're obviously not going to change it to something like child molestation, but it'll be something traffic related and will probably carry a similar fine. The charge itself doesn't matter! If I were you, I'd be far more worried about what you're gonna say in court to get out of that ticket without commiting perjury, than worrying about what stupid reduced charge the officer or judge may or may not offer you. Remember a plea bargain is not automatic.

Oh, and as popular as NICO is I think the odds are slim that the arresting officer, judge, or court clerk are NICO members reading this thread and will know it's 240SXer. If they are NICOites and have figured it out, Hey, HI GUYS!! He's a good kid, he's innocent! And those other kids cheering, shaking their fists and yelling "WOOT WOOT WOOT" behind a cloud of tire smoke were reacting to something else! Seriously, I hope 240SXer avoids the ticket. Good luck and let us know what happens.

240SXer
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There was only 1 person outside, hell it was like 30 degrees out with like a 25 wind-chill, my friend had to get something from my car or he wouldn’t even be out there. As far as perjury, my actual infraction was lighting up the tires halfway down the street. I didn’t indent to slide the back end out, it was actually because I tried to power out of the turn and it hit the boost over the ice. But 90% of it was because of the ice the other 10% was because of my negligence. I went and looked at the area again; the water extends to the lane of the street because of people leaving. It then all froze causing a 10-foot section of iced street, which is what I slid on. I'm not lying. I partially did do it, but not with what the cop saw. He only saw me slide out; there was some crap in the way that prevented him from seeing the street that I was coming from. I didn’t argue any of that to the cop because I didn’t want him to attack my vehicle for violations. I’ll make a diagram, take pictures and explain the exact situation further.

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C-Kwik
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No need to respond defensively. I don't think anyonr here is passing judgement. If you did it, you did it. If not, you did not. But did you deserve a 2-point violation. Well, my opinion is no, but it's up to a court to decide. What you said right there is probably close to the best defense you have, I would refrain from using percentages in court. They are subjective anyhow. Something to the effect of saying you were exiting the parking lot, you started to accelerate and then the rear tires lost traction, causing the rear end to slide out. Explain about the ice and that you didn't realize it was ice. Admit that you lost control of the car momentarily. Then explain how an exhibition of speed ticket implies that you intended to cause a loss of traction. Explain this is not what you were doing.

Still get back to us with more details. There may be other things to consider.

Also, if it is considered a misdemeanor, you wil get to go to a pre-trial and speak with the District Attorney. DA's aren't overly concerned with fighting minor traffic incidents. I actually had to go to a pre-trial for driving on a suspended license many years ago. He lowered it from a misdemeanor to an infraction, which reduces the fine tremendously. It was still a 2-point violation though. I didn't argue because I went in on a matter of principle due to a different charge. The end result was much better than I had anticipated. In any case, your meeting with the DA will be somewhat informal. There's a good chance he will lower the fine, but you may want to ask about making sure it is only reported as 1-point on your record. He can't give you legal advise, but he can answer what direct affect it will have to you, which includes any penalties. My opinion is that this would probably be a good outcome. But you can of course go for broke and fight the whole thing. I can't honestly say what goes on after this point though with a misdemeanor. You may want to consult with an attorney regarding that.

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plead not guilty... 80% chance cop won't show up. If he does tell the judge your attoney couldn't make it and ask to reschedulehe won't show up the next time.

I like the ice / RWD car story.... if the chp guy says you were lighting up, remind th court it is 240 not a corvete and that it is underpowered 4 cyl that was promoted as "your sisters car"... tell them the car simply does not have the power...:)

Altiman94
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^ that excuse won't work. It never has, never will. Most judges probably wont even know what a 240sx is, let alone its capabilities. He was messing around, pure and simple. Take what you get. Pay the ticket and move on

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Altiman94

used many times... I have zero points benn stopped over 10 times in the past 5 years. never been to traffic school , beat em all in court I live ive in cali... work the system. Cop won't show. If he does, reschedule. Have an attorney name ready to go... just say you are trying to work financial terms with the guy.

It Does work

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I've received 5 tickets in my lifetime, only the first one did I have to go to traffic school because I was dumb and didn’t fight it. All the others I fought and got out of completely. Fighting is good, especially if you are not guilty. Or at least not guilty of what they said.

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Can they hear the case even if my attorney is not present?

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Bubba1

that was some good preaching i feel like i was in church :) i agree with you


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