Got a 240sx, wanna get to 60 in under 6

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

I'm halfway($1000) to an SR ($2000), and I have a preaty much stock KA with under 40,000 miles on it, this is a 1998 240sx. The most I want to spend it $2000, but would like my car to get to 60 in under 6 seconds. I want to beat mustang gts that get there in 6.0 (C&D). Main purpose with this car is drag racing, but I want it to be Honda reliable. (That's why I got a Nissan, and not a Firebird) I figure with a SR I'll have a Nissan factory turbo, and nothing beats Nissan when it comes to reliability. On the other hand, I got a fresh KA but don't know what there is to do to it. I'm preaty sure my car doesn't have VLSD, and don't know if I'm going to get it. I have Continental Touring tires with 20k miles on it (are they any good? They came with the car) on stock rims (SE trim car so I'm guessing alloys). I'm worried without VLSD I'll be burning out constantly(?), and I have small stock rims with tires I'm not familiar with. The car drifts, I'm not sure if that's normal, or if continental tourings are crap, I know they suck *** in snow, and I have to shovel all the snow off the driveway if I plan on getting out. SO, what would you do?

Post by **I am Technoman** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Im not to sure what your asking.. If your looking to have a 240 that will do 0 to 60 in 6 sec your gonna need alot more than 2k.more like 3k. That 40k mile KA motor seems primed and ready for a turbo charger!:thinker maybe you should look into a turbo kit.

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

maybe look at some ways to shed a few pounds. yeah that means no huge stereo or heavy aftermarket rims but as a rule 100 lbs.= 1 tenth of a second in the quarter. not much but it's cheap:)

Post by **bruinbear714** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Well, first of all I would invest that money into getting a Kaaz 1.5 or 2 way LSD. That'll shave some time off your 0-60 right there.

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Yup, I ment 0-60. I thought the S14 SR engine in japan got to 60 in 6.2 or around there. Maybe after a chip to boost the hp I'll get under 6. That's what I was thinking, but I'll also have to spend money on a VLSD. By the way, how much does one cost including labor?

I also thought of the turbo kit idea, but like mentioned above, reliability is #1 on the list, and I don't know how reliable an aftermarket turbo is on an engine not built for one.

Has anyone ever driven an SR, and how does it compare with the stock KA? Is there a huge difference in power noticable through the seat, or is the difference only noticable on paper? I drove a 180HP GTI 1.8T and that is preaty comparable to my 240sx with the stock KA, well it's got an intake, but other than that it's stock.

Hows the G-tech work exactly in calculating horsepower, but this I mean what information is needed to be input to the G-tech to calculate horsepower?

Post by **R240NA** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

I've got the usual bolt-ons on my KA, I,H,E, flywheel, cams, pulley, ECU upgrade, and I've blown bone stock S13 SRs to hell and back, but I'm pushing your budget already. If you want to only spend $2000, you're screwed. I would definitely go turbo on the KA, it's cheaper than an SR and will net the same power with more torque, especially since your motor is so fresh. Reliability is fine as long as it's tuned right, you're good for an easy 10psi all day long, 14psi for fun.

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Yea, that's what I originaly wanted to do, and is why this is in the NA thread. I just wanted bolt-ons, with no turbo. I read Asad's review (on freshalloy.com) for the hotshot headers and he said the improved his 0-60 times from 7.6 to 6.7 or somethine like that. How much do you think you spent R240NA, and have you gotten the chance to race any V8s? If not, what cars can you beat, and who beats you? Just wanna get and idea how quick NA engines can be. Are you considering getting an intake manifold? I hear they can gain up to 20hp.

Post by **bruinbear714** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

My goal is to dip into 5second club in 0-60 and its going to cost much more than $2,000 and thats with all the labor done in house.

Post by **APEXi240** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

In your first post you said an SR was 2k....it will cost you much more than that. In general you are going to spend more that 2k to make your car as quick as you want it to be.

Buy an LSD, and decide what you want to do with your car, swap, turbo, n/a, ect.

With your engine, I'd turbo it.

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Ok, so I was thinking in my sleep last night and figured all I realy need to take out mustangs is 210 horses at the crank. I can get there preaty easily with the KA and no turbo, and under 2 grand. Here's how I see it:

Stock: 155HP: OwnHeaders: 10HP: $300Exhuast: 10HP: $400 (I saw a used N1 for $300 or so)Intake: 5HP: $100Chip: 10HP: $400Cams: 10HP: $300Pullys: 10HP: $300

Total: 210HP: $1800: No turbo lag, smooth inline 4 Power, 2.4L Displacement

Soooooo, tell me about the SR, cost and power. I rather have an SR because resale would be the highest, I would have two engines, and a factory turbo that can handle 18psi, 280 horsepower for racing, 210 @ 10psi for everyday. http://www.importintelligence.com has some S13 SR motors for $2500.

Post by **Drift Machine** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Umm your HP gains are a little inaccurate and your prices are way below what the actual cost is.

My guess: 192hp(+/-), $2500(+/-)

EDIT: my HP guess was HP at the crank.

Post by **bruinbear714** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

More realistic numbers would be more like:

Headers: 10hp $320Exhaust: 6hp $500Intake with CAI: 5hp $250-300JWT ECU: 6hp $600Nismo Cams: 8hp $500Pulley set: 6hp $360

Total gains: 41rwhpTotal costs: $2600 not including labor.

With all that your looking at about 160-170ish to the wheels.

Of course, every car responds differently to mods.

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Tell me about electric fans. Can you list everything in order of difficulty, and time to install? A friend of mine with a garage installed intake on my sisters integra in no more than 15 min, very simple im guessing that would be simplest.

Oh and please post a picture of your silver 97 240sx, I never saw one silver.

About price, is there anything wrong with using used parts sold on these classifieds? Will horsepower gains be lower say if I use a used exhuast, or chip?

Hmm.. so many options. Well, KA turboed is kinda at the bottom of my list. It might be cheaper now, but I'll have to throw money at the drivetrain to beef it up. And with 200 crank horsepower on a non-turbo KA might strain the drive train too. With the SR I'll have two engines, a tranny for the SR and for my KA engine. I'll just have to get a boost control, short shift, and VLSD. Then I can worry about suspension, and brakes but like I said, I want this car to be a reliable dragracer to be used everyday, cross country, and that kinda abuse, not too intrested in road courses, I'll use the Porsche for that, even though it's way out of date, and the stock 240sx can probably stay with it now. By the way, how do 240sx's do on road courses? On the bimmer forum, the M3 guys were saying how they "blew past modified 240sx's". That's when I couldn't decide if I should get a 95 M3 or a 98 240sx, I don't know if I chose right, but reliability was the main reason......... wow so O.T... I'm bored.. too bad there isn't a chat.

I can put a S13 SR motor in my 98 240sx, right?

Post by **R240NA** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

apzak wrote:Tell me about electric fans. Can you list everything in order of difficulty, and time to install? A friend of mine with a garage installed intake on my sisters integra in no more than 15 min, very simple im guessing that would be simplest.

Oh and please post a picture of your silver 97 240sx, I never saw one silver.

About price, is there anything wrong with using used parts sold on these classifieds? Will horsepower gains be lower say if I use a used exhuast, or chip? I can put a S13 SR motor in my 98 240sx, right?

K, schooling time. You already have an electric fan, behind the fan shroud. It works fine, you don't need to upgrade unless you're cooling system has lost some efficiency. Silver Moss is a sort of light green metallic, not silver. Used parts are fine as long as they're what they say they are and not damaged. Any SR can go into any 240.

Your above rwhp estimates are WAY speculative. Quoted gains are only at a certain rpm, and just adding numbers is wrong, it doesn't work that way. My car put down 159.8rwhp with the stock exhaust and all other mods, I figure with the new one maybe 163 or so, but I've lost some torque. My cost scale is here:

Stillen hi-flow filter and adapter- $125custom bent rightside intake pipe- $75S13 cams- $25, bought head for $150, sold it for $125 without themHotshot header- $330Bee*R 80mm exhaust- $380JWT ECU- $400UR pulley- $160OE LSD- $400Stillen flywheel- $475

I'm probably leaving something out but you get the idea. My car also has gone on a diet and weighs about 2600lbs, about 250 or so less than stock. I don't race much cars since it's illegal, and I do not condone doing so, but on the rare occasion I run into a stoplight with some tool wanting to race I have been known to play a little, safely, and up to the speed limit only, the newer GT Mustangs with the 4.6 seem to pretty underpowered and are not a stretch to keep up with, but that's about all my experience in that department. Lesser, or say slower cars, are not worth the effort or the risk of jail. You can make the KA very liveable and fun without going turbo, but generally people want the 'all or nothing', so on a budget I'd recommend to spend a little more and go with a light turbo setup, 6 psi is more than enough to start with, and there's more potential from there.

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Well, I found out that at 2800 pounds I'll need 225 horsepower to be statistically equal to Mustangs, which means nothing because the driver factor and all that. But say the drivers are equal, that's what I'll need. Will my engine have an advantage being an inline design, with smoother power?

225HP is a lot without some kind of turbo. Will my clutch, engine be able to take it and maintain reliability if it's NA, if I can possibly get that much power without turbo/NO?

I saw some KA's on ebay for under $400. Maybe I'll buy one and do some sort of turbo project. I don't want to destroy my engine.

How did you loose so much weight? What did you take off, and what is there to take off?

I never street raced anyone, but I guess there were times when I would gun it and see who would be first before lanes merged, or would see whos first off the light and if anyone thinks they can beat me. I don't know if you consider that racing. Never got reved at before, (maybe if i got some altezzas, but that aint ganna ever happen) doesn't see like lots of people street race. I just got a summer place by english town, and theres a race track there so I'll probably take my car there once in a while.

I was checking out the Turbo KA forum today and it does seem tempting. Some guy on the internet (google) said at 3.5 psi was able to destroy a stang 4.6L. I think he turboed a SOHC engine though. here's his site http://www.sdsefi.com/features/240sx.htm

Thanks for the into all.. learned a lot this weekend. I don't plan on doing anything for maybe a year. (getting my hours cut at work) I have to save I only got 650 now, I forgot I ordered a V1 so it should take longer to save. I'm probably going to get a G-tech so that's going to bring me back as well.

I'm not bored with my stock KA, YET (got something done with the airbox) so I should be fine. Torque is great on this thing, rear tires break loose like nothing.

Post by **bruinbear714** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

apzak wrote:Tell me about electric fans. Can you list everything in order of difficulty, and time to install? A friend of mine with a garage installed intake on my sisters integra in no more than 15 min, very simple im guessing that would be simplest.

Oh and please post a picture of your silver 97 240sx, I never saw one silver.

About price, is there anything wrong with using used parts sold on these classifieds? Will horsepower gains be lower say if I use a used exhuast, or chip?

Hmm.. so many options. Well, KA turboed is kinda at the bottom of my list. It might be cheaper now, but I'll have to throw money at the drivetrain to beef it up. And with 200 crank horsepower on a non-turbo KA might strain the drive train too. With the SR I'll have two engines, a tranny for the SR and for my KA engine. I'll just have to get a boost control, short shift, and VLSD. Then I can worry about suspension, and brakes but like I said, I want this car to be a reliable dragracer to be used everyday, cross country, and that kinda abuse, not too intrested in road courses, I'll use the Porsche for that, even though it's way out of date, and the stock 240sx can probably stay with it now. By the way, how do 240sx's do on road courses? On the bimmer forum, the M3 guys were saying how they "blew past modified 240sx's". That's when I couldn't decide if I should get a 95 M3 or a 98 240sx, I don't know if I chose right, but reliability was the main reason......... wow so O.T... I'm bored.. too bad there isn't a chat.

I can put a S13 SR motor in my 98 240sx, right?

I would say the from easiest to most difficult would be:

1) JWT ECU swap2) Cold air intake3) Electric fans4) Cat-back exhaust5) Pulleys6) Header7) Cams8) Port and polished head w/ intake/exhaust port matching9) Higher compression pistons

This doesn't represent the order many people take, however. They usually do intake/exhaust first, then pulley, header, cam, and ecu.

Anything above #8 will require a lot of labor and dedication.

If your whole point is to make your car fast and beat out others, then the easiest route would be to swap in an SR, make your own cheapo mechanical boost controller and up the boost.

If your more daring and want a challenge, then turbo up the KA.

Or if your like me and need the car as a daily driver, then build it up N/A way one step at a time.

Anyways, here are some pictures of my silver moss colored car:

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Oh god that is nice. Doesn't look green to me. I thought ECU swaps were difficult and required fine sodering. I don't know, I heard something on the VW forum when I was into GTIs. You also need like a day to "break in" the car after an ECU swap takes place, right?

Post by **apzak** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

I'm going to bring this back to life because I'm thinking of staying away from turbo now. Will the average mechanic be able to swap pullys? My mechanic didn't believe my car was rear wheel drive until he put it on the lift, and I want to install hot shot Headers, exhaust, VLSD and pullys. Will he be able to help me with that even though he doesn't know much about 240sx's? I rather have him do it because I could help out and learn. If I took it to someone else then I wouldn't be aloud to help out. I think he would have trouble with the HS header though because the steering has to be disconnected or will be know to do all this?

EDIT:Forgot to askR240NA: Do you think your in the 5 second club? If you blew past stock S13 SRs that means you are quicker than their 6.1 I think. Do you know how fast your car does the 1/4 mile?

Does anyone here race their 240 on a road course? On bimmer forums when I was deciding if I should get the E36 m3 or 240sx they said modified 240sx's were nothing on road courses because they have no upper power.

Post by **TrunkMonkey** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

if your mechanic can't handle some pulleys and an exhaust system, then it's time to find a new mechanic.

-demetrius

Post by **I am Technoman** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

Quote: My mechanic didn't believe my car was rear wheel drive until he put it on the lift

I would hate to have this guy work on my car!

Post by **Scott McLellan** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

How much horsepower do these Mustangs have anyway? I know a guy with a "high output" 5.0 L '95 GT that puts out 210-220 hp I think. That's with 400 more pounds...

Post by **Syntax360** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

no one ever addressed the "can u feel the difference between KA and SR" question. I own a KA, but my friend has a bone stock SR (no intercooler or anything), and even @ that u can *definitely* feel the difference when the turbo spools around 3000rpm. He has no VLSD and when he hits 2nd it feels like a very light burnout would feel from 1st gear in my car w/ a slight pull to the right (as i recall). I think if $2k is all u have, NA is all u will be able to afford, but hey, there's a lot to be said about doing more than just the typical intake/exhaust combo and telling everyone how fast u are. unfortunately, little $$$ = little gains.

Post by **s13driftmobile** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

bruinbear714 dosnt know what hes talkin about. If you put a cam in your car, and have the head ported, then it will give you 20-25 hp not 8

Post by **s13driftmobile** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

i drive my 240 on auto-x and with the sturt bars front and rear, it handels amazing, i have a jwt pop charger with a k&n and a flowmaster cat back and it has high end power, who ever told you that was stupid

Post by **Aries** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

alright guys calm down and use the quote button so we can all follow the conversation!

Jeebus.

Ok, Headwork with a cam swap can give anywhere from 12 to 30 hp depending on the ammount/quality of porting and polishing done. Unfortunately, Headwork comes with a very high price. $2500 is not unuusual for a stage 2 port and polish on a KA head.

The JWT ECU is a dirrect plug in and requires no soldering of any kind on our cars. Don't believe me? Call them and ask!

Post by **Structure240sx** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

can anyone just say search couldnt make it throught he first page he's asked every question this site has talked about in the past 3months since i came on

sorry to be a D I C K about it

Post by **jrc90240sx** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

240s handle great. there is another guy here in SLC that dose solo2 with me. he has a 92, and all he has done is cut his spring and put on some 245s falkins (not daily driven, and he has installed a SR this winter, and maybe some other stuff). and he beats about everything when we have a tight corse.

Edit - oh and he is a pretty good driver, wait make that a very good driver! as I was always about 4 sec behind him.

Post by **hotshot240sx** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:09 pm

just be careful if u decide to turbo...the motor is definatley be primed for one...its almost built perfect for a turbo...but non turbo cars turned turbo always seem to dteriate sooner or later...so id just roll with the sr...unlesssssss...you go all motor!!!

Got a 240sx, wanna get to 60 in under 6

Got a 240sx, wanna get to 60 in under 6

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