Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata!

[Jesda]

I saw one in person in downtown Portland, and theyre quite attractive, in a conservative way. It turned my head, at least.



http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...06434

The review in C&D is more accurate, but the conclusions are the same. The Camry and Accord have been outed, finally, as overhyped and overpriced boredom boxes. The Nissan Altima and Mazda 6 are the way to go, but the Sonata is the midsize front-driver of choice for unoffending upscale types.

Chevrolet/Buick, Mercury/Ford, Toyota, and Honda should be worried.

Cant wait until the Tiburon goes RWD.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I like them.I was reading my latest car and driver, which said something about how it's too bad it has dull, blend-in looks.

BS. It's quite distinctive. The new ad for them is pretty good, too...just one driving around a track, letting you get a good look. The rear is good looking, too. Tail lights are something that I think are rarely done well--most auto makers highlight the trunk seam, which IMO should be hidden as much as possible (like on my Max, or the first gen Q). Hyundai did a much better job on the tails than most.

It definitely looks like the last model Accord, though.



See how the clear section does not terminate at the trunk seam? It looks so cheap when cars are done that way...I'm impressed with Hyundai having done it properly.

The thing is CHEAP, too. You can have a fully loaded V6 for under 25k.

Right now, I'd consider that far before I'd consider a Camry or an Accord (since the accord we get here is trash, and it's extremely cheap looking up close).

That means it's Alty, 6, Sonata, Accord, 500, Malibu, Camry. Toyota's in last place in my runnings.

[PantherRacer]

The sonata does look nice and properly done, hyundai has been stepping up and slowly gaining credibility by making good cars.

I said from day one that the tiburon should be rwd. It looks like it's supposed to be rwd. it'd be so much more sexy if it was rwd. I used to love that car lol, still not as much as the silvia. but if they made it rwd I might just be tempted to get one

[vicQ45]

doesn't look bad so much as it looks like a direct accord-clone. the biggest turn-off for an car manufacturer for me is when the outright copy another model of car to gain sales. this is one of the many reasons i can't stomach toyota/lexus. perhaps if they'd bring the crown over, it'd be a different story. honestly though, these cars just aint my bag baby. for the price i'd spend a little more and get a new grand marquis or used marauder.

[PantherRacer]

Here's a receipt singed by vicQ45 for a toyota camry....

"and you say it isn't your bag????"

LOL(too much austin powers man, can't help it)

[vicQ45]

Here's a receipt singed by vicQ45 for a toyota camry....

"and you say it isn't your bag????"

LOL(too much austin powers man, can't help it)

HAHA classic..

"A book. "My toyota camry and me: how it changed my life" written by VicQ45"

seriously, i have a freaking accord now! overrated trash! i want my goddamn Q back

[AZhitman]

Jesda, your bound and determined to buy an inferior POS, aren't you?

Blast it boy, I'm revoking your man-card.

[PantherRacer]

so what happened to the Q vic?

I'm sure you can throw a giant wing and some vtec stickers on the accord and sell it for enough to buy a new one lol oh, don't forget the hubcap spinners lolol

[Jesda]

Jesda, your bound and determined to buy an inferior POS, aren't you?

No, I'm not buying a 97 Q41 anytime soon.

[Mr1der]

rofl...

nothing wrong with a Hyundai if you want a nice family car.

especially if you wanna save a big chunk of change and have a bitchin' warranty.

is the Tiburon going rwd or is that wishful thinking?

[gniknave]

I see two cars in those taillights. The Accord, and the A8. But they made a damn nice looking car. Maybe they're a company to be watching out for.

EDIT: This doesn't mean they aren't still rental car material

[sanioll]

At the end of the day, it is a Hyundai dammit!!

[MinisterofDOOM]

At the end of the day, it is a Hyundai dammit!!

I think it's funny that everyone's afraid of a nameplate.I USED to hate hyundai more than most of you--I had intimate incounters with an 80's Excel.

But I wonder if you've ever taken time to look at Nissan or Honda's histories.They went through the same thing.

Seems just a tiny bit hypocritical to be saying "it's still a Hyundai" when you never said "it's still a Nissan."

When they started out, Nissan (or rather, Datsun) was just as crap as the Hyundai we all know to fear. (The word "rust" ring any bells?)

It took them a while to figure things out. Now look where they are. They make the two a**-kickinest midsize sedans on earth (the Alty and the G). In ten years, the only people still following the Hyundai is bad stigma will be us--the ones who saw the beginning. Otherwise, there will be only evidence that Hyundai is a superior car. The accord won't be the everyman's car anymore. It'll whatever Hyundai's cooked up.

Just watch.

[PantherRacer]

and the hyundai might still be dirt cheap! the accent is already the new civic over here

[vicQ45]

so what happened to the Q vic?

I'm sure you can throw a giant wing and some vtec stickers on the accord and sell it for enough to buy a new one lol oh, don't forget the hubcap spinners lolol

HAHA! well i got it for about half of the bluebook, so it was a steal. i could turn around and sell it for at least 1k more than i paid. but the reason i sold the Q is to buy a piece of 60s-70s muscle as a fun project. those hubcap spinners are JDM TYTE YO! can't forget the matching TYPE-R steering wheel cover/seat covers/floor mats! i hate that aisle at autozone....

[vicQ45]

tiburons may be ugly and underpowered, but anything that takes sales away from the eclipse is A-OK in my book!

[skydragoness]

I like them.I was reading my latest car and driver, which said something about how it's too bad it has dull, blend-in looks.

BS. It's quite distinctive. The new ad for them is pretty good, too...just one driving around a track, letting you get a good look. The rear is good looking, too. Tail lights are something that I think are rarely done well--most auto makers highlight the trunk seam, which IMO should be hidden as much as possible (like on my Max, or the first gen Q). Hyundai did a much better job on the tails than most.

It definitely looks like the last model Accord, though.



See how the clear section does not terminate at the trunk seam? It looks so cheap when cars are done that way...I'm impressed with Hyundai having done it properly.

The thing is CHEAP, too. You can have a fully loaded V6 for under 25k.

Right now, I'd consider that far before I'd consider a Camry or an Accord (since the accord we get here is trash, and it's extremely cheap looking up close).

That means it's Alty, 6, Sonata, Accord, 500, Malibu, Camry. Toyota's in last place in my runnings.

I find it pretty boring. It's just another Accord wannabe.I know Accords are boring as all hell (even the two doors), but the Camry SE's look sharp, have a 'sport-tuned' suspension, and with 17's they look pretty hot. And I was walking around the Toyota dealership with my mom after they closed and the asking price for the most-optioned out Camry SE was $24k. So I don't see what's so great about the Sonata.

A RWD Tiburon would be super sweet, that would never happen though.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I find it pretty boring. It's just another Accord wannabe.I know Accords are boring as all hell (even the two doors), but the Camry SE's look sharp, have a 'sport-tuned' suspension, and with 17's they look pretty hot. And I was walking around the Toyota dealership with my mom after they closed and the asking price for the most-optioned out Camry SE was $24k. So I don't see what's so great about the Sonata.

A RWD Tiburon would be super sweet, that would never happen though.

Have you ever DRIVEN a Camry SE? It's about as sporty as a dead bug. Handles like the tires are made of butter, and it feels like there's five times as much sidewall out there flexing away as there really is. That sport tuned suspension is not (have you seen the car's roadholding numbers?) . They're not fun to drive--nothing about them inspires confidence or enjoyment while driving. The current Camry is one of the very ugliest cars in production, IMO. The acceleration is horrible, and the gearing is in all the wrong places--reminds me of my old Ford; even on level road, the car is never in a good gear, because the shift points are right at common speed limits. It's also damn gutless. It gets no better milage than the Altima, but makes far less power.Also, the wheels, tires, wheel cutouts are all way to small for the car. There are few (aesthetic) things I hate more than disproportionate tire size. The car is also teeny inside. It's a paradox, because they look decent sized outside, but the inside is quite small (of course, I am used to the interior massiveness of the new Maxima). The trunk is tiny and (I believe) still uses those swing-up-arms instead of the far superior hydraulic leverage assembly found on decent cars, which would not intrude on already limited capacity.

That dealer was absolutely lying about that price (or the sticker was on a non-fully loaded car). MSRP for a fully loaded Camry SE is $30-something K. You'll never find a Toyota for at or below MSRP unless it's last-year-new or damaged. For $30k you can have a REAL sport tuned sedan: the SE-R Altima.

The Camry is, IMO, one of the most boring cars on the road today. No soul, no class, cheap (quality-wise), tiny, and ugly, with absolutely no aftermarket, and performance that would give a classic Volkswagen Microbus a run for it's money. All it's got going for it is reliability. Anyone can do that.

There's nothing particularly great about the Sonata in general. It's not the car itself, as much as the fact that the car is a sign that Hyundai has joined the ranks of real car-makers, and can still keep prices low, AND offer the best warranty on earth. Compared to the Camry, the Sonata's a damn miracle.

[Jesda]

Have you ever DRIVEN a Camry SE? It's about as sporty as a dead bug. Handles like the tires are made of butter, and it feels like there's five times as much sidewall out there flexing away as there really is. That sport tuned suspension is not (have you seen the car's roadholding numbers?) . They're not fun to drive--nothing about them inspires confidence or enjoyment while driving.

^^The reasons why Buick is scared of Toyota. Toyota and Buick appeal to the same geriatric crowd these days.

[skydragoness]

Have you ever DRIVEN a Camry SE? It's about as sporty as a dead bug. Handles like the tires are made of butter, and it feels like there's five times as much sidewall out there flexing away as there really is. That sport tuned suspension is not (have you seen the car's roadholding numbers?) . They're not fun to drive--nothing about them inspires confidence or enjoyment while driving. The current Camry is one of the very ugliest cars in production, IMO. The acceleration is horrible, and the gearing is in all the wrong places--reminds me of my old Ford; even on level road, the car is never in a good gear, because the shift points are right at common speed limits. It's also damn gutless. It gets no better milage than the Altima, but makes far less power.Also, the wheels, tires, wheel cutouts are all way to small for the car. There are few (aesthetic) things I hate more than disproportionate tire size. The car is also teeny inside. It's a paradox, because they look decent sized outside, but the inside is quite small (of course, I am used to the interior massiveness of the new Maxima). The trunk is tiny and (I believe) still uses those swing-up-arms instead of the far superior hydraulic leverage assembly found on decent cars, which would not intrude on already limited capacity.

That dealer was absolutely lying about that price (or the sticker was on a non-fully loaded car). MSRP for a fully loaded Camry SE is $30-something K. You'll never find a Toyota for at or below MSRP unless it's last-year-new or damaged. For $30k you can have a REAL sport tuned sedan: the SE-R Altima.

.

ROFL. Yeah, I haven't driven the Camry SE, but I'm sure your'e right about it being lackluster in the performance department (can't be worse than the Malibu I rented ). I'm surprised at how bad you say it is, when the Corolla S is quite good (at least that was my impression when i had one trying to keep up with me on a backroad when I was driving my old white S13). I'm surprised the Camry SE is such a failure compared to the Sonata (I wasn't comparing it to Nissan, since they're obviously far superior). Its fairly common to have brand-new cars with mistmatched tires that can't perform. The sticker prices I saw for the SE's we were looking at had them with the optional 17's, didn't have leather but what else do they have as options? A sound system? They may have been leftover 04 models too. Also, aren't cars out here supposedly cheaper than out west? I agree the new Camry's are boring-looking, but the SE is different enough that it doesn't make me automatically think 'old people.'My mother was checking them out because she has a 98 Cam-cam already.As far as Nissan goes, that's without mentioning, I already had her drooling over a Altima SE-R and was trying to convince her to get it over the Camry. But my original post was about the Camry vs. the Sonata. With Nissan its no contest, I'll have to work some of my magic to convince her to get the SE-R, because she's throughly convinced she needs an SUV to survive.

[skydragoness]

^^The reasons why Buick is scared of Toyota. Toyota and Buick appeal to the same geriatric crowd these days.

I've driven a Buick LeSabre on the back roads of Virginia doing 45ish, and the rental Malibu I had on the backroads around here, and i've driven my mom's Camry plenty of times. Comparing the three, the car that doesn't make me feel like its not going to flip over and explode from sheer body roll is the Camry.

[vicQ45]

we all know a name like "camry" just screams performance. almost as much as names like "town car" and "park avenue". i guess the only problem here is that the camry doesn't have anything going for it. the other 2 have good ride quality(albeit the tc is a lot better). the only reason people buy camrys is:

A: the over-hyped "reliable" reputation that toyota has been given. it's been proven time and time again that good maintenance will let any engine live at least 250k. the only thing about toyotas is that they can go 250k unmaintained. woohoo a sludge-filled engine that goes 0-60 in 35 seconds, but refuses to die. if americans would learn to maintain their cars, every car would have this same reputation.

B: toyota's asthetic design rapes every automotive pop culture trend out there. bulgy, flared body kit/ground effects from the factory, black emblems(kinda neat actually), loud, farty sounds from the exhaust/intake(honda's guilty of this one too). guages gauges gauges!, big "S" emblems, the list goes on. look at the friggin matrix for god's sakes! that thing looks like it was developed by the fast and the furious fan club!

there is no practical reason to buy a toyota anymore unless you intend to drive the piss out of it and never do fluid changes/flushes or you want something "cute"

nothing but high-quality parts in a miserably engineered car.

the one toyota i've come to like however is the crown. mostly for its gorgeous interior

[vicQ45]

I agree the new Camry's are boring-looking, but the SE is different enough that it doesn't make me automatically think 'old people.'

the SE is just an ugly bodykit, bigger wheels, and some black emblems slapped on a boring "old people" camry. i park next to one all the time at work. makes my accord seem a hair less ugly

[Jesda]

The Corolla S is a nice package, but for its class, its at the bottom of the ladder. Even the Chevy (yeah, a friggin' Chevy) Cobalt SS has it beat in packaging, interior quality, performance, and value.

We're in yet another a golden age of performance, despite high fuel costs. People are making more money and manufacturers are fighting to the death for our approval. Toyota is completely missing the boat.

[PantherRacer]

Toyota's supposed to bring back the Supra, but it might be too late for the company's rep...but everyone else is already grabbing the "tuners" attention with their cars, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi have the right ideas. 4cylinder turbo AWD/RWD...the AWD's are sedans, sporty? definitely. Four doors arent slow anymore, just a tad bit heavier.

now if Honda and Hyundai came out with turbo 4 cylinder RWD coupes that look like sense, we'd know it was the end of humanity as we know it....and the tiburon isn't ugly lol, it's just fwd lol

[skydragoness]

We're in yet another a golden age of performance, despite high fuel costs. People are making more money and manufacturers are fighting to the death for our approval. Toyota is completely missing the boat.

. They're too stuck-up to do anything about it, they thing they have it in the bag because they have all these people who are going to die in the next 10 yrs buying their cars.

[MinisterofDOOM]

but everyone else is already grabbing the "tuners" attention with their cars, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi have the right ideas. 4cylinder turbo AWD/RWD...the AWD's are sedans, sporty? definitely.

Sorry, but I see a couple problems with this statement.First, Nissan's philosophy is FAR FAR different from Subie's or Mitsu's. As different as can be. 7 Years ago they might have shared a design philosophy. Not today. Mitsu only does ONE thing right, the Evo, and it's definitely not my style. Subaru is the same way. Who on earth would WANT a Legacy? An Impreza? Okay, the WRX and STi are great (and now they're ugly as well...) so that's one car. Out of their whole lineup. I'm not impressed, sorry. And again, it's a damn four cyl turbo AWD. I don't want that.

And second, why on earth is the FOUR CYLINDER ENGINE the "COOL" thing to do right now? Four cyl's are good for two things: economy, and getting their asses kicked by larger engines. They don't balance as well, they don't deliver power as smoothly, and they don't produce beautiful flawless torque curves like a good 6 or 8 will. Turbos suck, and AWD is NOT always better! I cannot begin to understand the contemporary popular belief that a 3.0 liter V6 is merely okay, but a turbo 1.6 is badass. It's completely stupid. People look at a V6 sedan and think boring. But throw a turbo 4 in it and suddenly it's exciting?! What the HELL is wrong with people?I admit the 4 has POTENTIAL, but ANY and EVERY engine has potential! Why not start with a better, bigger, MORE potential powerplant that can run the same numbers N/A, and THEN throw a turbo on if you get bored? Stupid, backward, completely wrong.

Four doors arent slow anymore, just a tad bit heavier.

Again--sort of right. Four doors were NEVER slow. EVER. In fact, it's only since the 70's that stupid kids have adopted the view that 4 doors ever meant slow. Before that, the four door cars and huge sedans were the ones to have, because they got the big powerplants.But NO! Four door's are NOT necessarily heavier! Where on earth does that idea come from? There are just more parts of the metal that OPEN! How does that automatically translate into weight? A 240sx is not lighter than an altima because it has two less doors, it's lighter because it's SMALLER. All these econoboxes are not light because they come with two less doors. They're light because they're so damn tiny. TOO damn tiny, IMO.

Again, today's kids can't look at the real world. All they see is their pop culture and get butt-hurt whenever someone insults their tiny and mostly-pointless four cylinder s*** that is trying to be cool. Sedans automatically suck, just because of the door count. Solid rear axles on underpowered RWD coupes are okay, but four wheel independent suspension on a powerful FWD four door is "lame." So damn backwards.

Okay /rant.

I just don't get modern "cool" car trends. Damn F&F movies. They're going to destroy the world, one road at a time.

[vicQ45]

Damn MOD, well-said! i think you might be the ONLY other person on this board that shares that exact same opinion as me! i'd take a supercharged(or even NA) marauder any day over a turbo 4cyl! we probably have a slightly different views on why we don't prefer turbo 4cyl, but hell at least i'm not alone! any motor is gonna be fast with any form of FI, so instead of starting out witha slow, gutless motor, why not start with one that can already hold its own? simple. it's not "cool" anymore to drive a v8. they don't rev high enough to impress people at a stoplight. they cost more to maintain and run, especially with mods. by making these kids think that 4cyl are superior to higher displacement engines, they can sell more cars! how many parents would buy their kid a marauder or impala ss for their 16th birthday? that's right, jsut the very lucky ones :P. but a civic? that car has a nice, "humble" or "sensible" reputation. who cares if it gets 30mpg? your mileage should have no bearing on performance. i love it when ricers pull the gas-mileage card. it's like them accepting defeat i'm glad that it seems like we're re-entering the displacement wars where every company is trying to produce a larger, more powerful engine than the other guys. it's a step in the right directoin where a few years ago it was trying to make the most powerful, yet economically friendly, affordable engine. there's just no sense in that. aaah the good old days of the buick centurion. man that was an awesome all-around car! fast as hell and big, plush, and comfy. sad the US can't make cars like that anymore

[BB Turbo]

Wait I skimmed over these posts and it still left me wondering, is the Tiburon going RWD? I ddint see any of you guys mentioning it if it was mentioned already please quote it to show my dumbass. Was this in a magazine of some sort, or what? Reason why I ask is because since day one I liked it and even more over the slight styling changes and it'd be bad a** if it was rwd.

[xmateo]

I think they messed up here. The last Sonata had more expressive and unique styling ques. One could be behind a new Sonata and not know they weren't behind an accord. The front end looks more like an Elantra - WHY?