Hyundai is planning a completely new RWD V6 Tiburon.
Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata!
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vicQ45
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interesting... looks like an eclipse and an infiniti fx woke up next to each other after a long night of drinking and this was the product. there are lots of things i like and dont like about it. very nicely laid out interior with a good color scheme! i'll bet the visibility is abysmal however and what's up with that shifter? definately miles ahead of the last tiburon! hyundai's definately moving forward here at least
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Bubba1
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (xmateo)
Wow, I'm surprised to see such Camry and Accord Bashing. Sure, they are rather mundane, but they are not made for enthusiasts. There's a reason why they are so popular.They're well made, and resonably priced. Gee what horrible traits. And there a whoooooole lot more people interested in reliable transportation than performance. I love Nissans and own more than one, but I'll even admit Nissans reliability and quality fall a notch below Toyota and Honda.xmateo wrote:I think they messed up here. The last Sonata had more expressive and unique styling ques. One could be behind a new Sonata and not know they weren't behind an accord. The front end looks more like an Elantra - WHY?
And as far as paying sticker for toyota's, that's a load of crap. I've never paid more than a few hundred bucks over cost for any Toyota.
I think Hyundai has made some startling improvements in recent years.Enough to forgive them for the cars they imported in the 80's and early 90's. There are other manufacturers that also had shakey beginnings in this country. Subie began with the 360, which was as much a joke as the Yugo.
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PantherRacer
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (Bubba1)
I'd take the previous tiburon looks over the concept car....
and I personally like I6's and V6's
I4's are just the in thing now, and they have some potential once you throw on some forced induction. The fascination is that you can do so much with so little. I agree that bigger is better, when you can do the same to a bigger engine as you do to a 4 cylinder what's going to win? we know there is no clear cut winner out of a supercharged V engine and a turbo Inline. and blah blah blah. it's personal preference ALL over again basically.
I have a new project idea though. A tri-turbo Skyline. damn G4 tv gat my mind twisted with their whipset and tri turbo supra....full boost at 3800rpm...and all that jazz....
either that or a twin turbo V8 70's muscle car...converted to RHD of course. maybe twin turbo AND supercharged..... (yes I'd rather die in a car in my old age than of natural causes, yea, I'd probbably finish one of those projects when I'm old and gray...head out to the track...hit a low time, and just die happy)
and I personally like I6's and V6's
I4's are just the in thing now, and they have some potential once you throw on some forced induction. The fascination is that you can do so much with so little. I agree that bigger is better, when you can do the same to a bigger engine as you do to a 4 cylinder what's going to win? we know there is no clear cut winner out of a supercharged V engine and a turbo Inline. and blah blah blah. it's personal preference ALL over again basically.
I have a new project idea though. A tri-turbo Skyline. damn G4 tv gat my mind twisted with their whipset and tri turbo supra....full boost at 3800rpm...and all that jazz....
either that or a twin turbo V8 70's muscle car...converted to RHD of course. maybe twin turbo AND supercharged..... (yes I'd rather die in a car in my old age than of natural causes, yea, I'd probbably finish one of those projects when I'm old and gray...head out to the track...hit a low time, and just die happy)
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MinisterofDOOM
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (PantherRacer)
That tib concept looks like a Lexus. Swap the badges and noone would ever know. Yeah, the headlights have FX DNA in them. But the a** is pure RX. So...Hyundai is ripping off luxury SUVs for it's sports car styling? Ummmm...
I hate lexus.
Seriously...doesn't that remind anyone else of that Toyota Volta concept? (Which, coincidentally, is a blatant ripoff of a Bugatti concept.--but what more would you expect from the big T?)
I hate lexus.
Seriously...doesn't that remind anyone else of that Toyota Volta concept? (Which, coincidentally, is a blatant ripoff of a Bugatti concept.--but what more would you expect from the big T?)
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MinisterofDOOM
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (Bubba1)
What the hell are you smoking (sorry, no offence meant, but... )Bubba1 wrote:They're well made, and resonably priced. Gee what horrible traits.
Toyota and Honda are the least reasonably priced cars on the road today,
It's the truth, it cannot be disputed.
You pay for the image of owning one of the most reliable cars on earth (one of THOUSANDS of reliable cars) and you pay for the right to drive it and have that badge on the hood and bumper. It's all a big huge status symbol, and nothing more. the car's are priced because people are stupid enough to pay it, becaues they believe that they HAVE to have a Honda or a Camry. They believe that nothing else is as safe or reliable.
It's more pure media blindness.Camry's cost more than altimas for the same options. And amidst all those options, the Alty is still a FUN car to have.
I see no reason why anyone would ever consider the Camry or Accord reasonably priced if they'd ever actually gone car shopping before.
Honda and Toyota rightfully earned their strong reputations in the 80s and early 90s, when Ford and GM were putting the worst garbage imaginable on American roads.
However, things have changed. Koreans, other Asians, and certain European and American models and brands have moved up quickly. The much higher price for an Accord or Camry is no longer justifiable.
However, things have changed. Koreans, other Asians, and certain European and American models and brands have moved up quickly. The much higher price for an Accord or Camry is no longer justifiable.
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Bubba1
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (MinisterofDOOM)
[QUOTE=MinisterofDOOM]
What the hell are you smoking (sorry, no offence meant, but... )
Toyota and Honda are the least reasonably priced cars on the road today,
It's the truth, it cannot be disputed.
MOD, gotta disagree with you (taking a puff ) You're only looking at only the purchase price. Add in resale value, depreciation, cost of ownership and Toyota's a great deal. My 4Runner cost maybe $2K more than a comparably equipped Furd Explorer in 1997. Today it's worth $4K or more in resale value than that same Explorer. So now which is the better value? Add it up. There is a reason that unbiased sources like Consumer Reports recommend virtually the entire Toyota product line. It's not marketing hype or image seeking. It's because they are well built, dependable cars that hold their value better than other cars. That's fact, not media hype. If it were overpriced, they wouldn't sell as many as they do.
I test drove a Camry and a Accord before buying my wife's Altima. The prices were not all that different when the cars are spec'd similarly. I think you need to compare apples to apples. They're not that far apart. yes, The Alti SE was a little more sporty to drive than V-6 Camry or Accord, but on the down side, I thought the Alti had more torque steer than it should, a little less refined, and it felt a tad cheaper inside than the other two. I ended up buying the Alti as it's roominess was a bigger factor to me than the $1400 price difference for a Camry.
What the hell are you smoking (sorry, no offence meant, but... )
Toyota and Honda are the least reasonably priced cars on the road today,
It's the truth, it cannot be disputed.
MOD, gotta disagree with you (taking a puff ) You're only looking at only the purchase price. Add in resale value, depreciation, cost of ownership and Toyota's a great deal. My 4Runner cost maybe $2K more than a comparably equipped Furd Explorer in 1997. Today it's worth $4K or more in resale value than that same Explorer. So now which is the better value? Add it up. There is a reason that unbiased sources like Consumer Reports recommend virtually the entire Toyota product line. It's not marketing hype or image seeking. It's because they are well built, dependable cars that hold their value better than other cars. That's fact, not media hype. If it were overpriced, they wouldn't sell as many as they do.
I test drove a Camry and a Accord before buying my wife's Altima. The prices were not all that different when the cars are spec'd similarly. I think you need to compare apples to apples. They're not that far apart. yes, The Alti SE was a little more sporty to drive than V-6 Camry or Accord, but on the down side, I thought the Alti had more torque steer than it should, a little less refined, and it felt a tad cheaper inside than the other two. I ended up buying the Alti as it's roominess was a bigger factor to me than the $1400 price difference for a Camry.
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MinisterofDOOM
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (Bubba1)
Toyota's small trucks are a completely different story than their cars.Bubba1 wrote:I test drove a Camry and a Accord before buying my wife's Altima. The prices were not all that different when the cars are spec'd similarly. I think you need to compare apples to apples. They're not that far apart. yes, The Alti SE was a little more sporty to drive than V-6 Camry or Accord, but on the down side, I thought the Alti had more torque steer than it should, a little less refined, and it felt a tad cheaper inside than the other two. I ended up buying the Alti as it's roominess was a bigger factor to me than the $1400 price difference for a Camry.
As small trucks, go, Toyota is arguably the best.
Alty has more torque steer? YEAH! That's because it's got a real engine. One that makes torque. That's what happens....a decent engine in a FWD setup WILL torque steer. You get power, or no torque steer. You pick.
See...this is why Toyota and Honda are more successful. People complain about things like torque steer without bothering to notice if it's a tradeoff for something better. I'd happily deal with torque steer in favor of the VQ over whatever VTEC'd trash Honda uses. I've driven V6 Camry SE's. They're s***--NO low end power. Getting stuck in freeway traffic with them would be hell.
It's not the price alone that matters---it's the package as a whole and what price it's offered at. The package camry offers is equivalent to a McDonalds value meal. The altima's a trip to Red Lobster. One of them is there and takes care of bare needs. The other one's something more than just transportation.
I can see we won't agree...
I just can't believe someone would adamantly defend the Camry.Go drive some real cars and get back to the Camry. You'll change your mind.The Camry is an AVERAGE car, through and through, and it's sold at a "Great car" price. There is absolutely NOTHING special about it. The altima is absolutely a "special" car. It's got soul, it handles well, it's got power, it LOOKs amazing (which is exceedingly rare today) and it won't break any more easily than the Camry will.
The Inspire is a pos. The accord is a great car right now. Too bad you have to pay for acura badges to get one.
Also, some of this probably sounds rude. I'm not trying to offend you...I just have zero respect for the Camry or the Inspire. Any offense in my posts is directed at the cars, and not at you.
I've tried to keep the Accord out, because that would just be a mess...Honda thinks we North Americans are idiots. They've tricked most of us. But i sure as hell won't be caught paying $35k for an accord just because they bent the edges of the H emblem on it.
Modified by MinisterofDOOM at 3:19 PM 7/30/2005
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Bubba1
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Re: Goodbye Camry, hello Sonata! (MinisterofDOOM)
No offense taken. I guess we have different perspectives. I think the Camry is an excellent choice for the person who views their car as an appliance to get from point A to B. Unfortunately, you'll find there are far more of that type of person than there are us enthusiasts. Niconauts view their cars as more than appliances, so it's not surprising that Camry's are not popular here.MinisterofDOOM wrote:
Toyota's small trucks are a completely different story than their cars.
As small trucks, go, Toyota is arguably the best.
Alty has more torque steer? YEAH! That's because it's got a real engine. One that makes torque. That's what happens....a decent engine in a FWD setup WILL torque steer. You get power, or no torque steer. You pick.
See...this is why Toyota and Honda are more successful. People complain about things like torque steer without bothering to notice if it's a tradeoff for something better. I'd happily deal with torque steer in favor of the VQ over whatever VTEC'd trash Honda uses. I've driven V6 Camry SE's. They're s***--NO low end power. Getting stuck in freeway traffic with them would be hell.
It's not the price alone that matters---it's the package as a whole and what price it's offered at. The package camry offers is equivalent to a McDonalds value meal. The altima's a trip to Red Lobster. One of them is there and takes care of bare needs. The other one's something more than just transportation.
I can see we won't agree...
I just can't believe someone would adamantly defend the Camry.Go drive some real cars and get back to the Camry. You'll change your mind.The Camry is an AVERAGE car, through and through, and it's sold at a "Great car" price. There is absolutely NOTHING special about it. The altima is absolutely a "special" car. It's got soul, it handles well, it's got power, it LOOKs amazing (which is exceedingly rare today) and it won't break any more easily than the Camry will.
The Inspire is a pos. The accord is a great car right now. Too bad you have to pay for acura badges to get one.
Also, some of this probably sounds rude. I'm not trying to offend you...I just have zero respect for the Camry or the Inspire. Any offense in my posts is directed at the cars, and not at you.
I've tried to keep the Accord out, because that would just be a mess...Honda thinks we North Americans are idiots. They've tricked most of us. But i sure as hell won't be caught paying $35k for an accord just because they bent the edges of the H emblem on it.
Modified by MinisterofDOOM at 3:19 PM 7/30/2005
An enthusiast has no problem adjusting to torque steer, but it can be unnerving to a non-enthusiast. Since the primary driver of my Alti is my non-enthusiast wife, that's why I went with an SL instead of an SE. Less torque steer.
But I don't necessarily agree that the Altima is a thrilling car to drive. It's bites pretty well for what it is, but it's not an overwhelming car with soul. I can only think of a few cars that I've driven that have soul, and they're all exotics. The Alti does has sportier feel than a Camry or Accord, but it also feels a little less refined. That came from driving all three. The Camry/Accord are actually very competent handling cars, better than you might think. I tossed a V6 Accord around a race track. I was very surprised how well it performed.
I also totally agree with you about the upscale marques. That's why I own Nissan/Toyota instead of Infiniti/Lexus Regards
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