I was wondering what I should look for here. My target horsepower is about 250-275whp. I'm more concerned with low spool up time and torque. I figure I will get more use out of a car that can sprint up to 100 mph than one that can go 170 given time. The T3/T28 hybrid sounds attractive. Where's a good place to get those? Do turbo rebuilders often have them available or will it be a more or less custom job? Would a straight up T28 off an SR20 or something be a better bet? (and perhaps cheaper).
Sky
Good turbo for Autocross?
Nismo1182 wrote:I might go with a T28 soon also. 1. i really dont want to change the exhaust manfold. Im not going all out racing, its just my daily driver. 2. It bolts right on. 3. nice big upgrade. Max boost id run would be 20 for race and 10 for street.
I like quick spool ups also. Im not a patient person.
A t28 will push 20 PSI? That sounds good enough for me. They're pretty available too right? Any particular compressor/turbine trims i should look for... I don't know a whole lot about those ratios.... I assume it's a bit like a gear ratio. how much air is pumped for the amount of exhaust that goes through.
Sky
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GotBoost4Yall
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:16 pm
- Car: Cars-DSMs/Nissans
The turbo can handle 20psi but will the rest of the motor,stock block?Check for the max boost rating on the turbo.
For (autocross) I wouldn't upgrade to something bigger,with all the turns and slaloms, Boost wont do you any good but slow you down through all the turns. I don't even think you'll hit that much boost on a autox track. Have the stock turbo ported and clipped if you want,if anything you want a turbo to spool fast in autox. Depending on the upgraded size of a bigger turbo you will also need other upgrades to back it up.
For (autocross) I wouldn't upgrade to something bigger,with all the turns and slaloms, Boost wont do you any good but slow you down through all the turns. I don't even think you'll hit that much boost on a autox track. Have the stock turbo ported and clipped if you want,if anything you want a turbo to spool fast in autox. Depending on the upgraded size of a bigger turbo you will also need other upgrades to back it up.
here is something i copied from a forum awhile ago i forgot who posted it and where.
Quote »OEM:
S13 SR20DET: T-25, 60 trim 56mm BCI-1 compressor, 53.8mm 62 trimT-25 turbine, .64 A/R turbine housing. Journalbearings.
S14 SR20DET: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing,62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.Ball bearing center section.
S15 SR20DET: Same as S14, but with Inco turbine wheel (instead ofGMR), cast divider wall between turbine discharge andwastegate.
Pulsar GTi-R: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in standard T-3housing. 79 trim 53.8mm Inco T-250 turbine wheel .86A/R turbine housing. Journal bearings.
BB SR20DET: T-25. Basically, the same as the S13 Silvia.
HKS:
GT2510: T-28, 63 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing.62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.ball bearing center section.
GT2530: T-28, 63 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing.76 trim 53.8mm NS-111 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.Ball bearing center section.
GT2540: 46 trim 76.2mm BCI-8 compressor in T-04E housing. 76 trim53.8mm NS111 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing. Ballbearing center section.
GT2835: I believe that the following is the spec for this, but I could be wrong:48,52, or 56 trim 71mm BCI-18C compressor in T-04E housing.84 or 90 trim UHP turbine cut down from 60mm to 56.5 mm..64 or .86 A/R turbine housing. BB center section.
GT3037: 48,52, or 56 trim 76.2mm BCI-18C compressor in T-04E housing.84 trim 60mm UHP turbine. .61, .73, .89, and 1.06 A/Rturbine housing. Ball bearing center section.
Turbonetics:
Super 60 T-3: This could be about anything, but is usually a 65 trim60mm BCI-1 compressor wheel in either a standard T-3or a T-04B compressor housing, with a 62 trim 58.x mmT-3 turbine wheel in a .49 A/R turbine housing.
Stage 3 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 65 mm T31turbine in .49-.82 A/R housing.
Stage 5 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 72 mm T350turbine in .63 or .82 A/R housing.
NOW OPINIONS
Stock:
The T-25 seems to be OK up to around 1 bar of boost with a 3" exhaust and no cat. This can support about 240 whp with no cat. With a cat, I would run no more than 10-12 psi. Expect about 220 whp.
The S14 T-28 spools really nice, but has the same tiny turbine as the T-25. It can't support much more hp. I'd say 240-260 or so wheel hp max. You can get more power by running more boost, buy you do so at the risk of breaking things.
GTi-R T-28 is a really good turbo. I think that it is better if you lose the T-3 compressor housing and get a housing off of the S14. This is a big improvment. With the T-04B compressor housing, the GTi-R turbo can support about 16 psi and 280+ wheel hp. Makes pretty good boost by 3500 RPM, too.
HKS:
GT2510 is expensive and only has marginally better performance than the Bluebird and S13/14 standard turbos. Yes, it has better transient response because it is ball bearing, but it's not like a stock journal bearing T25 is a spool dog. I would personally buy something else first. I don't think you will be able to measure any improvment over a standard S14 turbo with this one, and it costs a *LOT* more.
GT2530: This is a pretty good turbo, but I don't understand why HKS won't offer it with the larger .86 A/R turbine housing. This with the larger turbine housing will outperform a GTi-R turbo. This should be good for 300 whp and good response from 3000 RPM on up.
GT2540: IMO, this turbo is a big piece of ****. This is my opinion as I haven't tried one. But, looking at the maps, it looks like a pile of ****. I have heard annecdotal evidance from people I respect that it works pretty well, but I wouldn't put one my car and find out. There is too big of a size mismatch between the 53.8mm turbine and the 76mm compressor. Also, it is insane to run a .64A/R on the turbine given the flow capacity of the compressor. This turbine and this compressor are both really good on their own, but they are worthless together. Total mismatch. Save your money.
GT2835: If this turbo is actually what I described above (check to make sure before you buy), this should be a pretty good turbo. Get the 56 trim compressor wheel and the 90 trim turbine wheel with a .86 A/R turbine housing. This should make good boost by 3500 RPM and should support 375-400 or so wheel hp.
GT3037: This is the mother load of turbos. Get the 52 trim compressor and .73 A/R turbine housing for good streetability and ~400-425 or so whp. Get the 56 trim compressor and .89 A/R turbine housing is you can live with a little more lag and want ~475+ hp.
Turbonetics:
Straight T3 is an OK 2.0L turbo. Gets good boost about 3k RPM, will make about 250-275 whp. Cost and installation is the same as other, larger turbos, though, so I'd just rather go bigger and take 500 RPM later response.
Stage 3 T3/T04E hybrid. Get the 50 trim compressor wheel, and only the 50 trim compressor wheel. Get the .63 A/R turbine housing for boost response by 3500 RPM. This will support about 320 whp. Get the .82 A/R turbine housing is you can live with full boost ~800 RPM later. This will support ~400 whp.
Stage 5 T3/T-04E hybrid. Only run the .82 A/R turbine housing. If you want less lag, get a smaller wheel. Run the 60 trim compressor wheel. Don't run a 60-1 wheel (****) or the smaller trim T-04E wheels. This turbo will support about 475-525 whp (don't know on the top end--we haven't maxed one out yet!). Expect soggy boost repsonse below 4500-5000 RPM.[/quote]Quote »Stage 3 T3/T04E hybrid. Get the 50 trim compressor wheel, and only the 50 trim compressor wheel. Get the .63 A/R turbine housing for boost response by 3500 RPM. This will support about 320 whp. Get the .82 A/R turbine housing is you can live with full boost ~800 RPM later. This will support ~400 whp.[/quote]NOW I HAVE THAT TURBO - t3/t04e 50 trim with the .63 T3 stage 5 wheel, some one made 463WHP on a stock block SR the other day over on fresh alloy so this turbo can make high hp and still get going at 3000-3500rpm.
Quote »OEM:
S13 SR20DET: T-25, 60 trim 56mm BCI-1 compressor, 53.8mm 62 trimT-25 turbine, .64 A/R turbine housing. Journalbearings.
S14 SR20DET: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing,62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.Ball bearing center section.
S15 SR20DET: Same as S14, but with Inco turbine wheel (instead ofGMR), cast divider wall between turbine discharge andwastegate.
Pulsar GTi-R: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in standard T-3housing. 79 trim 53.8mm Inco T-250 turbine wheel .86A/R turbine housing. Journal bearings.
BB SR20DET: T-25. Basically, the same as the S13 Silvia.
HKS:
GT2510: T-28, 63 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing.62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.ball bearing center section.
GT2530: T-28, 63 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing.76 trim 53.8mm NS-111 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing.Ball bearing center section.
GT2540: 46 trim 76.2mm BCI-8 compressor in T-04E housing. 76 trim53.8mm NS111 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing. Ballbearing center section.
GT2835: I believe that the following is the spec for this, but I could be wrong:48,52, or 56 trim 71mm BCI-18C compressor in T-04E housing.84 or 90 trim UHP turbine cut down from 60mm to 56.5 mm..64 or .86 A/R turbine housing. BB center section.
GT3037: 48,52, or 56 trim 76.2mm BCI-18C compressor in T-04E housing.84 trim 60mm UHP turbine. .61, .73, .89, and 1.06 A/Rturbine housing. Ball bearing center section.
Turbonetics:
Super 60 T-3: This could be about anything, but is usually a 65 trim60mm BCI-1 compressor wheel in either a standard T-3or a T-04B compressor housing, with a 62 trim 58.x mmT-3 turbine wheel in a .49 A/R turbine housing.
Stage 3 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 65 mm T31turbine in .49-.82 A/R housing.
Stage 5 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 72 mm T350turbine in .63 or .82 A/R housing.
NOW OPINIONS
Stock:
The T-25 seems to be OK up to around 1 bar of boost with a 3" exhaust and no cat. This can support about 240 whp with no cat. With a cat, I would run no more than 10-12 psi. Expect about 220 whp.
The S14 T-28 spools really nice, but has the same tiny turbine as the T-25. It can't support much more hp. I'd say 240-260 or so wheel hp max. You can get more power by running more boost, buy you do so at the risk of breaking things.
GTi-R T-28 is a really good turbo. I think that it is better if you lose the T-3 compressor housing and get a housing off of the S14. This is a big improvment. With the T-04B compressor housing, the GTi-R turbo can support about 16 psi and 280+ wheel hp. Makes pretty good boost by 3500 RPM, too.
HKS:
GT2510 is expensive and only has marginally better performance than the Bluebird and S13/14 standard turbos. Yes, it has better transient response because it is ball bearing, but it's not like a stock journal bearing T25 is a spool dog. I would personally buy something else first. I don't think you will be able to measure any improvment over a standard S14 turbo with this one, and it costs a *LOT* more.
GT2530: This is a pretty good turbo, but I don't understand why HKS won't offer it with the larger .86 A/R turbine housing. This with the larger turbine housing will outperform a GTi-R turbo. This should be good for 300 whp and good response from 3000 RPM on up.
GT2540: IMO, this turbo is a big piece of ****. This is my opinion as I haven't tried one. But, looking at the maps, it looks like a pile of ****. I have heard annecdotal evidance from people I respect that it works pretty well, but I wouldn't put one my car and find out. There is too big of a size mismatch between the 53.8mm turbine and the 76mm compressor. Also, it is insane to run a .64A/R on the turbine given the flow capacity of the compressor. This turbine and this compressor are both really good on their own, but they are worthless together. Total mismatch. Save your money.
GT2835: If this turbo is actually what I described above (check to make sure before you buy), this should be a pretty good turbo. Get the 56 trim compressor wheel and the 90 trim turbine wheel with a .86 A/R turbine housing. This should make good boost by 3500 RPM and should support 375-400 or so wheel hp.
GT3037: This is the mother load of turbos. Get the 52 trim compressor and .73 A/R turbine housing for good streetability and ~400-425 or so whp. Get the 56 trim compressor and .89 A/R turbine housing is you can live with a little more lag and want ~475+ hp.
Turbonetics:
Straight T3 is an OK 2.0L turbo. Gets good boost about 3k RPM, will make about 250-275 whp. Cost and installation is the same as other, larger turbos, though, so I'd just rather go bigger and take 500 RPM later response.
Stage 3 T3/T04E hybrid. Get the 50 trim compressor wheel, and only the 50 trim compressor wheel. Get the .63 A/R turbine housing for boost response by 3500 RPM. This will support about 320 whp. Get the .82 A/R turbine housing is you can live with full boost ~800 RPM later. This will support ~400 whp.
Stage 5 T3/T-04E hybrid. Only run the .82 A/R turbine housing. If you want less lag, get a smaller wheel. Run the 60 trim compressor wheel. Don't run a 60-1 wheel (****) or the smaller trim T-04E wheels. This turbo will support about 475-525 whp (don't know on the top end--we haven't maxed one out yet!). Expect soggy boost repsonse below 4500-5000 RPM.[/quote]Quote »Stage 3 T3/T04E hybrid. Get the 50 trim compressor wheel, and only the 50 trim compressor wheel. Get the .63 A/R turbine housing for boost response by 3500 RPM. This will support about 320 whp. Get the .82 A/R turbine housing is you can live with full boost ~800 RPM later. This will support ~400 whp.[/quote]NOW I HAVE THAT TURBO - t3/t04e 50 trim with the .63 T3 stage 5 wheel, some one made 463WHP on a stock block SR the other day over on fresh alloy so this turbo can make high hp and still get going at 3000-3500rpm.
GotBoost4Yall wrote:The turbo can handle 20psi but will the rest of the motor,stock block?Check for the max boost rating on the turbo.
For (autocross) I wouldn't upgrade to something bigger,with all the turns and slaloms, Boost wont do you any good but slow you down through all the turns. I don't even think you'll hit that much boost on a autox track. Have the stock turbo ported and clipped if you want,if anything you want a turbo to spool fast in autox. Depending on the upgraded size of a bigger turbo you will also need other upgrades to back it up.
The CA block can take well over 20 psi. The stock turbo with the wastegate unplugged spools to 17 psi then drops back to around 14-15.
A T28 sounds perfect. It bolts on, not too big so it will spool right when you need it.
The Disco Potato isnt a bad idea either. Im also considering this one.
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
GotBoost4Yall wrote:The turbo can handle 20psi but will the rest of the motor,stock block?Check for the max boost rating on the turbo.
For (autocross) I wouldn't upgrade to something bigger,with all the turns and slaloms, Boost wont do you any good but slow you down through all the turns. I don't even think you'll hit that much boost on a autox track. Have the stock turbo ported and clipped if you want,if anything you want a turbo to spool fast in autox. Depending on the upgraded size of a bigger turbo you will also need other upgrades to back it up.
clip a turbo that you'd use for autox? wouldn't that hurt performance? clipping makes for a laggier turbo. Don't clip. Stay fairly small and if you want something that spools fast and has instant boost when you shift, then go ball bearing.