Go buy a book and read it! It is that simple.

[spank044]

This rant is for people who are new to turbos and keep posting links to some cheap Chinese ebay turbo in order to ask everyone else; Is this a good turbo for the ka? I know we are here to be helpful to those that are new, but at some point we need to say enough already. In the last couple months it seems like every newb asks the same question. They never read the FAQ, so I say in reply to all these new topics looking for the same answer. Read a book and search for your answer, don't just make another thread. One more thing, is it too hard to use proper English? Example "what u think of that beast? how would that work on the KA?". Skeeg, I'm sorry I used you as an example, but you are the reason.

When I first came into the turbo world in my junior year of high school in 2002 I had a 91 CRX HF with a D15 SOHC with a small IHI turbo off a stock probe, no intercooler and a FMU which only ran 6 psi. When I went to Michigan turbo (where I later got a job) to buy a bigger turbo and intercooler, the owner Kelley laughed at me and told me to go buy the book Turbochargers by High McInnes and read it then come back to him when I knew what I wanted. That was the most helpful advice I ever received so I want to pass it on.

Go buy at least one of the following books and read it.

Supercharging, Turbocharging, and Nitrous Oxide by Earl Davis (Very helpful with a lot of formulas and charts in an easier to understand format) Turbochargers by Hugh McInnes(Lots of information, somewhat expert oriented, but covers everything)Max Boost by Corky Bell(Covers pretty much the same as the previous two)

These titles are on my bookshelf right next to a 3 more Turbo books (not quite as informative), 11 different FSMs and Chilton manuals, 8 engine building and blueprinting books, 3 EFI books, 2 Ignition books, and 1 Engine management book. Most of my books have pictures of SB Chevy's and other V-8's on the cover, but all engines run on the same principle (General statement, please no comments).

Also if anyone has any titles on there book shelf that they find helpful please share them, because I am always looking for another good book.

One more thing, I posted this here instead of the general chat because this is where I spend most of my time.
Modified by spank044 at 9:47 PM 1/5/2008

[Zippy69]

I don't mean to bust on you dude, but man, you can take that elitist attitude elsewhere.People like you are all the same, you have the information and instead of sharing it, you want to keep it to yourself, like you are some greater than thou entity.I agree we have had a rash of "Is this a good turbo?" threads lately, but so what?Don't waste your time by reading them and especially don't spend a moment of your time posting back. Then the problem is solved.I'll always answer a "noob" question, no matter how dumb I think it is. I will direct them to the stickies at the top of the page for all the info they need. If they choose to read the stickies, and learn great, they will be better for it. If not, so what, I don't pay their bills so I don't care.If a "noob" wants to half listen and throw together a crappy turbo system and blow their engine, why do I care? I don't feel sorry for the stupid who don't want to learn.I still think a forum like this is meant to educate and direct, not exclude and belittle. So to you and all the people like you, Take your elitist attitude and go away, I would rather have 500 "noobs" for every elitist like your self who thinks they are better than someone else because they read some information last year instead of last night.

[95_240]

I can't read.

[turbo2nr]

hooked on phonics +1 it did it for me... lmao...

yea books help but some people are not good at gathering info form books.. or just flat out dont like to read...

i just think its a lost cause .. they will always be newbies.. they will ask the same questions. they will get flamed.. life will go on..the end...

[S13FX]

There is some good advice in this thread. And I appreciate you guys trying to help out the new people.

But this thread it self is turning into a flame war. And I know it's going to continue one turning in to a flame war.

spank044 you are correct about those books being great cause I my self read a lot of them on various deployments. Only problem is I my self am a visual and hands on person. All though I understood the basic concept of everything after reading the books.

I still had to take it apart and put it back together in order to fully understand it.

Also I would recommend people to refer to our sticky above it has excellent information on picking out Turbos for the KA, Manifold, Injectors, etc etc etc, and it gets updated regularly.

If OP or any one would like to talk to me about this please,

Email me at: [email protected] or AIM@:Pijaczek18.

Thanks,Mike(S13FX)

[WDRacing]

My policy is simple, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. What does that mean exactly? It means don't be afraid to ask. It's our job as moderators to clean up the threads that need to moved/edited etc.

I have been very busy as of late with the holidays and all, but I'm back in the swing, so I'll be able to clean things up better then I have been.

The EBay items will be a never ending saga. Sometimes they work aw some, sometimes they fail in hours. I have witnessed both, so I usually let people make their own decisions once I explain the goods and bads etc. But I do explain them...

Everyone was a noob at some point...hell I've done my share of really stupid things.

Nico is a family first and a forum second.

With that said, the OP does make some good points. If you can do a quick search, or even browse the first page you'll see a lot of repeat questions. To a lot of guys that looks like you can't be bothered to do any of the work yourself. If you add bad grammar and poorly worded questions to the mix you'll get less help then if you actually typed out a legible and clear thread/post. I use the Google toolbar for spell check...lol. I suck at typing and I often drink to much, so I know that grammar sucks at times, but we could all take 10-15 seconds longer and make things 80% better.

You can always reach Mike and I on AIM or email, I'm WDRacin on AIM and [email protected] if you see a problem thread or something that bothers you. We'll take care of it right away...

Just keep this in the back of your mind, Nico is a family and this is "OUR" forum. Together we can make it the best it can be. No flame wars please, we're just sharing opinions here. If you have suggestions feel free to post them up

WD

[silverkaturbo]

My favorite part of your post is when you judge people for not using proper english. In the exact same sentence you wrote asking people to use proper english you made a grammatical error yourself. "Too" would have been the proper form of the word you were looking for. There were several others (example: "to buy a buy a bigger turbo..." What does that mean?), but that was just the most ironic to me.

[eazye2000]

Bah, I STILL can't read a compressor map. Yet my car runs 12's..

I just hop on here and ask a question or two. But like Mike(S13FX) said, "I'm a hands on guy". And so am I. I need someone to draw it out, color it, and then animate it. I've read a few books. Very informative ones. Some things I understand, some things I don't. I don't mind helping people. But I do feel where the 'OP' is coming from. Some things just get old. I deal with it. Or maybe it's the meds I take that are dealing with it..

[jt15833]

The first and second posters represent the two biggest archetypes in the tuning world.

1. The people who prefer to read and gather all the information related to the topic in question and then make an educated decision.

2. The people who prefer to ask #1's, and then make their decisions.

Both can succeed and fail, but on internet forums you will definitely find a larger abundance of #2's than #1's because heck, what better place to ask questions?

[WDRacing]

Or maybe it's the meds I take that are dealing with it..

You need to be sharing those jerky!!!!

[BMAR240SX]

My policy is simple, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. What does that mean exactly? It means don't be afraid to ask. It's our job as moderators to clean up the threads that need to moved/edited etc.

I have been very busy as of late with the holidays and all, but I'm back in the swing, so I'll be able to clean things up better then I have been.

The EBay items will be a never ending saga. Sometimes they work aw some, sometimes they fail in hours. I have witnessed both, so I usually let people make their own decisions once I explain the goods and bads etc. But I do explain them...

Everyone was a noob at some point...hell I've done my share of really stupid things.

Nico is a family first and a forum second.

With that said, the OP does make some good points. If you can do a quick search, or even browse the first page you'll see a lot of repeat questions. To a lot of guys that looks like you can't be bothered to do any of the work yourself. If you add bad grammar and poorly worded questions to the mix you'll get less help then if you actually typed out a legible and clear thread/post. I use the Google toolbar for spell check...lol. I suck at typing and I often drink to much, so I know that grammar sucks at times, but we could all take 10-15 seconds longer and make things 80% better.

You can always reach Mike and I on AIM or email, I'm WDRacin on AIM and [email protected] if you see a problem thread or something that bothers you. We'll take care of it right away...

Just keep this in the back of your mind, Nico is a family and this is "OUR" forum. Together we can make it the best it can be. No flame wars please, we're just sharing opinions here. If you have suggestions feel free to post them up

WD

Wow that was touching, no bull either

[fairzdrift]

Forums are for asking questions and making friends period there is no other reason

i mean its a forum the meaning of forum is a discussion for crying out loud that means everyone and sometimes the search button is not good enuffand you have to ask a question and you dread doing so because some one will inevitably go USE THE ****ING SEARCH! and then your humiliated and it sucks ive been on both ends bu i make it a point to answer the question if i know the answer so now i will sit back and let the flaming begin for what i just said

[S13FX]

Bah, I STILL can't read a compressor map. Yet my car runs 12's..

Actually right now I'm working on getting us some cool calculators that will read a compressor map for you and out put all the info you want and understand.

There is going to be a couple more other ones, that will help you choose the right turbo for your application and stuff. Just bare with me heh.

[esahuque]

Everyone was a noob at some point...hell I've done my share of really stupid things.

Nico is a family first and a forum second

+1^^ We all have to start somewhere. There was a point in EVERYONE'S life where they had to ask the same questions noobs do, Including me. I got my feet wet but still have a long way to go. And about the SEARCH button, most of the time i search something it will pull up X amount of related post but every one i open says "please try using the SEARCH button" LOL. Sometimes the search button leads you to dead ends and we are left ASKING question. But I do want to thank everyone that has answered all of my "STUPID NOOB" question that i posted in the first year of me boosting my 240. If it wasn't for all of you, i would have never completed my build. Including You WD even though we didn't start off on the right foot!

I have learned a lot from NICO!!
Modified by esahuque at 6:55 PM 1/5/2008

[Zippy69]

The first and second posters represent the two biggest archetypes in the tuning world.

1. The people who prefer to read and gather all the information related to the topic in question and then make an educated decision.

2. The people who prefer to ask #1's, and then make their decisions.

Both can succeed and fail, but on internet forums you will definitely find a larger abundance of #2's than #1's because heck, what better place to ask questions?

Lets get one thing straight, I never said no one should research for their own information.I am definitely one who likes to gather all the info I can, whether from books, magazine articles, television, videos, or a forum intended for that purpose.I just get tired of people who think that since they have more knowledge about a particular area, that they are somehow better. Like WD said, everyone was new at one point.If I know something that someone else doesn't, then why should I keep it to my self?What purpose does making them go read a book serve? Now if it is a major amount of information, then yes read the book, however, if I can tell you what you want to know in a few sentences, then why not?My point is that people were not born with all the knowledge and information that they have. They had to learn it, but people like the OP feel like just because they have some information that some else does not, then they are somehow superior.Besides, I'll trust a person who knows and has done something before a book any day. I prefer real world application over what I read.

[spank044]

First off it is not an elitist attitude. When I first joined I read the FAQ's and stickies. I will research multiple places before I put up a post asking a question, but the difference is I will take the time to make a decent question and fill in as many blanks as I can, not just write "What do I need to put a turbo on my KA?"I will answer a question if I know the answer, but I refuse to answer a question that has been asked 10 times already.

Quote Zippy69"If a "noob" wants to half listen and throw together a crappy turbo system and blow their engine, why do I care?" I don't feel sorry for the stupid who don't want to learn. You should care, these noobs are the people showing up at the weekend track events looking up to others with sub 12 second cars. What matters most is they should care. Everyone should want to help make this a better place, not just a dumping ground of repeat questions.

S13FX, at least you grasp the concept then apply it, which in my opinion is the best way to learn. But, it blows my mind how many people don't even try to understand the concept before they do something. So instead of searching or reading they want others to answer their questions so they don't have to do the work themselves. I guess from what all that has been said that is what upsets me the most, people just the answer they don't care how they get it or why.

WDRacing, I admire your patients with some of the recent posts and repeats in multiple forums where they don't belong. I also agree with this being a family, but in my family everyone pulls his/her own weight, they don't just rely on everyone else to do there work. The spelling issues I am referring to are when they use text spelling or short slang that makes no sense; not when someone accidentally spells a word wrong or retypes a sentence and makes a mistake.

Also I never once said anything about stupid questions, I was mainly referring to the constant repeats lately.

Zippy96,Your second post sounds more like my first now. You agree with me that;-People need to search-Books are very helpful-Major amount of info, then read a book-If I know the answer then I give it It is not matter of not sharing information, thats not a problem, but why should you or me answer the same question 10 times. When we were noobs we searched first then asked questions later.

But I agree and disagree with your last 2 sentences. A majority of books in a reference section are tried and true. Smokey Unicks book Power Secrets is one of the most informative engine books ever and it was written from his information.

[480sx]

My question to you then would be is what is the true purpose of your post?

It would seem in your first post you were in between bashing noobs, who will always exist no mater what we do, and informing people of good reads.

Again, theres nothing thats all the sudden going to get people to read first and ask questions later. We live in a society that expects immediate gratification without doing any real work, this is the norm.

If your post was strictly aimed at helping those who do not chose to read up before posting it then it would have been fine, but you go off on a tyraid that no one really needs to hear. We all are well aware of the issue, trust me.

[spank044]

I wasn't bashing newbs/ noobs, these are just examples of the posts that are not being researched (I apologized right after the quote.) I know that it is not going to change, but I hope one or two people read this and are going to use the search button or read the stickies before they just post a repeat question. Even better yet I hope they get more answers from multiple posts then what they would have gotten from just a couple answers on their thread.

The good books are just some added info that I found helpful and maybe someone else will go to the book store and find them helpful as well.

[coolbone28]

This whole argument obviously has 2 different points of view and each can have valid points. Nothing is black and white. There will always be grey areas. For example, if a noob asks a question that has been covered a million times and has 2 or more relevant posts on the front page of this forum, then that is when they get flamed. That just shows a lack of caring,and laziness and can be quite annoying. But what if it is such an easy question that can be answered with a yes or no or what have you? In the amount of time that it takes to say "you are a stubid newb and should search...blah blah" you could have answered their question.

Now obviously there are circumstances where its completely unnecessary to answer such questions. Some may require a lengthy answer which has already been covered. Or sometimes you may not know the entire facts. I myself am guilty of this. There are times where a question is posed and i dont know all the info and i am curious so I LOOK IT UP!!! I may post my findings, but then again i may not.

Now on the other hand, the whole "no question is a stupid question" is somewhat flawed. It may not be a stupid question, but it can be an ignorant one. In the amount of time it takes to make a post about a generic topic (which i think spank is talking about) like "whats the best setup or what do you think about this kit..." the poster could have done a simple search with words in their own topic title probably and come up with mounds of info...probably more than they know what to do with (IMO NICO has one of the easiest and best search features of all the forums i have been to). I think this post has the ability to be a good helpful source of info, but i believe it was created with wrong intentions.

[Zippy69]

Spank, I think you miss the whole point of a forum. It is to ask questions and get answers.If you ask me what the best turbo for a ka engine is, then I will give you my opinion and then tell you that you should research for what best suits your needs.I just don't see any reason to get all pissed about some one asking a question. Like I said, you have the choice to simply ignore them. You are not obligated in any way to offer information or advice on this site. You didn't sign a contract that says you have to do these things.I disagree with you saying that I should care what happens to a "noob". I don't because if some bonehead slaps a turbo on his car from only listening to one chuckle head on a forum, then he deserves everything he gets. We all know that you are going to spend quite a few bucks on a turbo set up. And if Johnny Rocket comes in here and reads one post then decides to turbo his car and winds up walking, then good, he is an idiot.Bashing is for those with a small pen15, I don't feel the need to bash to make myself feel better.I agree that it can be a little annoying, but like I said, just ignore. No need to get worked up about it. Dummies will be dummies.

[WDRacing]

Spanky has made a good point fellas. I hope I didn't over shadow it with my post about this being a family and yada yada.

I agree 100% with him on the user making a legible post/thread and doing some research on their own before barfing up whatever question they have.

As a moderator I want to foster an atmosphere where people aren't afraid to ask questions. This does not relieve you of your personal responsibility to do some work on your own.

This is where Spanky has the issue. If you can't help yourself, why should we help you? I go both ways here. If you have worded the question well and try to grasp the responses given, then more power to ya. If you regurgitate some fast and furious BS in a manner that makes me cry out for a 1st grade English class, then I'll not help you.

Yes that sounds bad and hypocritical, but it's the simple truth.

Spanky isn't an elitist at all, he's just a guy tired of seeing the same exact thread or question on the first friggin page. Again, this is partially the staffs fault for not locking/moving/merging etc.

I will say this...this thread has sparked a good conversation and you guys have handled it like adults. Your points are spoken strongly, but not over bearing and there hasn't been any real confrontation. This is how things get done. Every other forum on Nico could benefit from reading this thread.

In closing, we're each entitled to our own opinions. Diversity is what makes forums and communities as a whole prosper. I think what we have here is pretty damn good.

WD

[s13rb25det]

read "maximum boost" by corky bell it is the best turbo book you will ever read.

[spank044]

Thanks WD at least a couple people open their minds and are willing to listen.

s13rb25det, check out Supercharging, Turbocharging, and Nitrous Oxide by Earl Davis, thats a good one too.