GM's record breaking recalls

[Bubba1]

These are staggering numbers. 54 separate recalls totaling 26 million GM vehicles sold in the US in just the 1st 6 months of this year. For world wide GM numbers, add 3 million more. Of the more than 3 dozen models GM sells in the US, all but 3 have had at least one ordered recall in the last six months. That doesn't mean the three were never recalled, just means not in the last 6 months. To give some perspective how huge that recall volume is, it's the equivalent of recalling every single vehicle GM manufactured over the last 3 years.

The 3 models not recalled this year....yet... were the Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain (same platform), and the Volt. Of course that just means the 1st 6 months of 2014, those vehicles have had recalls prior to 2014, and there's still a half year to go in 2014.

Other interesting tidbits about the size of the recall (courtesy of Time).

1. The recalled GM vehicles could wrap around the Earth more than four times.
2. They could also line the Russian border. Twice.
3. A stack of the 24,904 recalled 2012 Chevrolet Sonics would reach outer space.
4. The recalled cars weigh more than 100 Empire State Buildings.



Thoughts? Comments?

[Rogue One]

The latest recall involves vehicles dated back to 1997 !!!

What boggles my mind is, GM's sales still increased in June, despite the expanding recalls.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Most of the recalls are exceptionally minor, and GM is hardly the only automaker to face such things. Lots of worth-buying cars have faced recalls, especially in early years. It's nothing to panic or freak out about (you know, as the newsmedia is prone to doing unless it involves Toyota).

What happened is this:
GM screwed up one big issue.
GM got in the public eye.
GM caught heat for not performing recalls in a timely manner.
GM decided it would be better to take care of any other potentially necessary recalls now, rather than feed the "unaddressed issues" fire with more fuel.

A lot of these are ridiculously unthreatening and noncritical. The vast majority of them, in fact.

I wish people would stop blowing what is basically an issue of crummy corporate communication (in a company far bigger than anyone doing the bitching has any comprehension of how to operate) into some kind of sinister malpractice.

Meanwhile, there are currently German and Japanese brands facing critical airbag recalls left and right. But all anyone can talk about is a bunch of f*** Cobalts. Because, as always, GM is the media's favorite scapegoat.

There are a handfull of recalls for my LS8. Not one single damn one of them is either:
A) A valid reason to have NOT purchased the car or
B) A safety issue.

All recalls are not the same. "Lots of recalls" is the dumbest metric for quality ever. It completely lacks context or scope. All it tells us is that GM is ADDRESSING issues (regardless of whether that's willingly or unwillingly). How do we know Hyundais don't all have some catastrophic frame design flaw that Hyundai hasn't recalled yet? So much paranoia around a non-issue.

It's just like the Ford/Firestone crap, or any other automotive media fiasco: people who don't understand a thing hype a thing and get other people who don't understand the thing passionate about being mad about how the thing they don't understand was somehow handled incorrectly. How the @#$% can you criticize the handling by a corporation you don't understand (yeah, I'm talking to you, walmart checker who drives a 20 year old Taurus and screams to anyone who will listen that GM The Devil) of a situation you don't understand by personnel you don't understand and in regards to a product you don't understand? Half the people bitching about this probably don't even understand how an ignition switch works.

I realize a post here on NICO is more in the realm of automotive expertise. But it doesn't change the fact that the issue at hand is being overblown, misrepresented, and generally overhyped to a ridiculous degree.

The newsmedia's inability to understand the real issues of the Ford/Firestone issue (user ineptitude) led to federally mandated TPMS and stability control. Two things I would happily live without. Let's not give more fuel for s*** overcorrection of an issue that has been addressed.

[Rogue One]

Most of the recalls are exceptionally minor...

Yes, most of them are. But that doesn't diminish GM's negligence, nor would I try telling that to the families of the 16 dead from this debacle. GM knew of the safety issue with the ignition switch as far back as 2003, and yet still allowed them to be installed. The airbag issue is a third party supplier problem. The car companies that are affected had no foreknowledge of the defect, so I wouldn't call it a realistic comparison.

[Bubba1]

Yes, MoD, many are minor items, but I think there are a couple other aspects to consider.

1. the defects may appear minor but the results of not fixing those problems can be both serious and expensive. These were not vinyl trim falling off items. We're talking items causing accidents/fires/safety equipment not functioning. For example, the unsecured floormat is a very cheap defect to repair. But if you want proof why it's so serious, just ask Audi and Toyota. both companies paid out millions fighting off wrongful death lawsuits that resulted from the same exact minor issue.

2. I understand these were not voluntary recalls. And the reason they were ordered was because of reports of significant incidents, like fires/accidents, etc. Big difference. GM chose to sweep the ignition switch defect under the table despite knowing there were deaths involved. And they probably would have continued to suppress until they were forced by those recalls to react.

I find it interesting people still buy new GM vehicles despite what seem to be obvious manufacturing blunders (not all of them) and continued corporate arrogance. Many appear to have accepted the notion that all the problems could be blamed on the "old GM". That's despite the fact that many of the recalled cars were built by the "new GM". I suppose GM is lucky to have so many gullible new vehicle customers.

I also believe the utter lack of driver training in this country is a contributing factor. You would think if a car unintentionally accelerates as a result of an unsecured floormat, even a fool would know to shift the transmission into neutral. And a forced recall to add a cheapie 25 cent mat hook should be unnecessary. Unfortunately, that's not the reality we live in. There are a lotta idiots with drivers licenses in this country, many of whom purchase new GM vehicles, and many of whom are eager to sue for a big payday despite probably causing the problem themselves.

[Jesda]

I've got two Devilles that have been recalled for ignition switches. Parts are 3-4 months out.

There is NOTHING wrong with the ignitions on Cadillacs. The detents are fine. The electricals are fine. Completely pointless, paranoid, lawyer-driven decision.

[Bubba1]

I've got two Devilles that have been recalled for ignition switches. Parts are 3-4 months out.

There is NOTHING wrong with the ignitions on Cadillacs. The detents are fine. The electricals are fine. Completely pointless, paranoid, lawyer-driven decision.

While I agree they are lawyer driven, I question about it being pointless. NHTSA wouldn't be recalling them without actual incidents of the problem occurring. And for the Devilles at your dealership, according to the recall, the problem only occurs if the keys are attached to a heavy wad of other keys while driving over serious bumps. So if you're not doing both, I would think they'd appear perfectly fine.

[Jesda]

I've got two Devilles that have been recalled for ignition switches. Parts are 3-4 months out.

There is NOTHING wrong with the ignitions on Cadillacs. The detents are fine. The electricals are fine. Completely pointless, paranoid, lawyer-driven decision.

While I agree they are lawyer driven, I question about it being pointless. NHTSA wouldn't be recalling them without actual incidents of the problem occurring. And for the Devilles at your dealership, according to the recall, the problem only occurs if the keys are attached to a heavy wad of other keys while driving over serious bumps. So if you're not doing both, I would think they'd appear perfectly fine.

I've put 100k+ on FWD Cadillacs, all of which share the same ignition components (also shared with Buick and Oldsmobile) and all of them are just fine.

GM is enjoying a sales boost thanks to increased dealer traffic from the recalls. At this point, the "recall everything for the hell of it" approach is a savvy move, not one of technical necessity. The publicity from the initial recall was bad enough that anything that follows is meaningless in terms of PR damage, same for why other manufacturers have increased their recalls as well.

See the recent issue of C&D (July?) where they took the offending hardware apart and analyzed it. The bulk of the victims were drunk, high, or driving recklessly. The part on Cobalt/Ion/HHR/G5 is indeed faulty but situations resulting in death have involved extremely irresponsible motorists.

Making matters worse are media outlets who can't discern ignition switch-related stalling from other defects. For example, from the New York Times:

“When foot is taken off accelerator, car will stall without warning,” one driver of a 2000 Cadillac Deville told regulators in December 2000.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/busin ... -cars.html

That's NOT due to the tumbler or switch. That's due to a faulty CKP sensor, a part that was revised years ago and replaced on most of these cars. I had one done on the '03 Deville earlier this year. If you look at the bottom of the article, they couldn't even get the picture of the car right.

Additionally, the switch on subsequent recalls (the recalls affecting Cadillac and Buick) isn't the item being replaced anyway. They're simply modifying the keys.

Unlike the Switchgate recall, however, the fix for these models centers not the ignition switch, but on the key and the slot it contains for accommodating key rings: "GM will add an insert to the ignition keys of the recalled vehicles to close the slot and leave a 4x6-millimeter hole through which the key ring could be attached. In vehicles where the key cover has been worn, new keys with holes instead of slots will be provided free of charge."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/cars/gm-r ... story.html


What they should have done is recalled 96-99 Northstar V8s for their high rate of head gasket failures, but that costs real money. Superficial recalls simply add foot traffic to showrooms.

[Bubba1]

I've put 100k+ on FWD Cadillacs, all of which share the same ignition components (also shared with Buick and Oldsmobile) and all of them are just fine.

GM is enjoying a sales boost thanks to increased dealer traffic from the recalls. At this point, the "recall everything for the hell of it" approach is a savvy move, not one of technical necessity. The publicity from the initial recall was bad enough that anything that follows is meaningless in terms of PR damage, same for why other manufacturers have increased their recalls as well.

.

So you're saying as both a rational, competent driver and Cadillac fan, you personally drove a hundred thousand miles on FWD Cadillacs that were not necessarily among the ones recalled and have concluded they are ALL problem free from that issue? Even if the ones you drove were included in the recall, the recall did not say every single one experienced/will experience that problem, just that they shared that specific part with other vehicles that did fail several times under a specified combination of circumstances, and GM was ordered to replace them. The fact you did not see that problem in your cars operating under different conditions does not mean it won't happen to other cars. It already DID. Bottom line is GM admitted that ignition part was inadequate and began replacing them while the Cobalt was in production. Shockingly, those vehicles with the new part were not recalled for that problem. (they were recalled for other defects... )Ms. Barra and her cronies obviously knew there was a problem or that change would not have been made on the production line in the first place. The ignition recall was ordered because of GM's decision not to replace the fault prone parts on vehicles already built. It's also not surprising that dopes were found that incorrectly blamed the car on that problem. You know the same exact thing happened to both Toyota and before that Audi. And the media does a very good job making things appear far worse than they actually are. No argument there.

Just curious, if you substituted "Toyota" for "Cadillac", would you defend the manufacturer as strongly?

[Jesda]

So you're saying as both a rational, competent driver and Cadillac fan, you personally drove a hundred thousand miles on FWD Cadillacs that were not necessarily among the ones recalled and have concluded they are ALL problem free from that issue? Even if the ones you drove were included in the recall, the recall did not say every single one experienced/will experience that problem, just that they shared that specific part with other vehicles that did fail several times under a specified combination of circumstances, and GM was ordered to replace them. The fact you did not see that problem in your cars operating under different conditions does not mean it won't happen to other cars. It already DID. Bottom line is GM admitted that ignition part was inadequate and began replacing them while the Cobalt was in production. Shockingly, those vehicles with the new part were not recalled for that problem. (they were recalled for other defects... )Ms. Barra and her cronies obviously knew there was a problem or that change would not have been made on the production line in the first place. The ignition recall was ordered because of GM's decision not to replace the fault prone parts on vehicles already built. It's also not surprising that dopes were found that incorrectly blamed the car on that problem. You know the same exact thing happened to both Toyota and before that Audi. And the media does a very good job making things appear far worse than they actually are. No argument there.

Just curious, if you substituted "Toyota" for "Cadillac", would you defend the manufacturer as strongly?

Remember the number of threads I made about the Toyota acceleration issue? Zero! The media made a mountain out of a molehill.

Go read the specific cases where GM was found at fault. The drivers were drunk, doing 100mph through a residential area, texting, or high as a kite. Half of them didn't even wear a seatbelt. The expectation of survival was already VERY low.

The part was defective but it did not cause mass casualties or bring about a nuclear holocaust.





As for Cadillacs and Buicks, the ignition switch is NOT at fault. GM is modifying the keys as an over the top preventative measure.

Left: Original Key
Right: New Key

In most cases, the keys aren't even being replaced. They stick an insert inside the slot to form a small central hole.


Right in front of me on my desk are the keys to a Seville, two Devilles, an older BMW, an F-150, and a Lexus LX. ALL of them are shaped the same way with a slot rather than a hole. If this is a legitimate defect then we need to issue a recall for every Ford, Toyota, and Lexus ever made. Throw in Nissan, Infiniti, Honda, Acura, Volkswagen, Volvo, Saab, Audi, Jaguar, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Fiat, and Aston Martin too because they've all issued keys with the same design.

[elwesso]

I guess the lesson to be learned is that trying to sweep things under the rug ends up biting you in the butt more than it helps you... I agree this was made to be a much bigger deal then it really is, but GM did drop the ball.

A guy I work with used to be a service advisor for a GM dealer, and they had to replace many ignition switches that failed.. In most cases he said when one did fail people were indeed carrying boat anchors on their key chain.

Over the years we've had all kinds of GM cars, and over the years every now and then we've gotten letters in the mail saying "take your car into the dealer for such and such repair"... Why they didn't do something like that is beyond me? After all, if the owners were notified and refused to fix it, that's not (necessarily) GM's problem..

Maybe GM should just go bankrupt again so it doesn't have to deal any debt this has or will cause... After GM went bankrupt, it seems like it'd be a really good idea to go bankrupt every 5 years or so just to get a fresh start..

[Jesda]

The bailout was weaksauce. GM should have endured a more aggressive restructuring that flushed out several layers of middle management.


Unexpectedly, this is a point in favor of Saab's central ignition design.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The bailout was weaksauce. GM should have endured a more aggressive restructuring that flushed out several layers of middle management.

Agreed. That's my main frustration with the bailout. Not any of the political aspects, but the fact that I would have preferred a more thorough housecleaning instead.