gimme the recommended engine sludge/varnish removal

[forecast]

after 20 mins using the search button and I can't find a good clean write up by one of the top five regarded posters on how to clean a sluggy / varnished engine.

Can someone please give me details on how to get this thing scrubbed out?

I've seen hints about ATF, but the length of use isn't clear - 20 min or 200 miles?

I'd heard of seafoam, but same questions apply.

Seems like everyone equates the five minute stuff with skepticism.

I've read about concerns of overfilling with ATF, is that the only reason to use it only for light driving? I saw something from q45tech where his car got it for the weekend, but he seems like an aggressive driver, did he just drive slow?

I'm leaving tuesday on a 800 mile highway trip, I'll change the oil at grandma's in Kansas when I get there - any recommendations?

Seafoam now? and ATF fluid 200 miles from grandma's place?

[nisstech]

First, how much sludge, vasnish do you have in you engine? Having worked on Toyota/Lexus for years now I have seen minor to major sludge, we now call this condition (oil gell). We have tryed every thing from ATF mixed with solvent to the BG Engine Purge kit sold with 2 cans of MOA. Nothing and I REALY mean NOTHING can correct a bad case of oil gell except disamssemble the entire engine and cold tank every part and replace all gasketts and seals. IF the oil pick up screen has been bolcked with gelled oil for any time it is always a good idea inspect the rod and main bearrings, replace or inspect the oil pump ect... If the case is you just have a hard layer of varnish you can take the mix we have found to work, 1 qt. BG engine purge, 2 qt. ford type (mercon) III atf and 3 qt. 5w30 motor oil. Run @ 2000rpm for 1hr. Turn the heater on high ac off in park with the hood open. You may want to place a fan on high speed in front of the radiator. The bottom line is change you oil every 2500 to 3000 mi with a good synth like castrol of mobil 1 and you'll never need to do this procedure!!!!! I have never seen a motor sludge (gell) with proper oil changes!

[Q45tech]

He right once they gell nothing will clean them except a pick and a tiny shovel.

I know what the inside of my valve covers look like having resealed them 2 years ago so my formulae may not be correct for your engine.

Have a valve cover pulled and determine what to do from the look.

We have only seen 2 Q [out of may 500 valve cover clean and reseals] which looked anywhere close to the typical high mileage V6 Toyota sludge buckets.

The most common problem with Q is varnish from over heated [or too old oil]..............this can be dealt with by BG Quick Clean treatments and multiple oil changes but if it took 10 years to get varnished up it may take 6 months and 12 oil changes/treatments to clean up.

Don't rush things with harsh chenicals and never drive with an overfilled oil system.

[maxnix]

Try http://www.envirolution.com . Fred and I have both used it. Call their 800 number to find a location near you of a garage that has a machine. They also have flush machine for the Q cooling system (special fittings required).

The service writer here has jars of sludges of shame. One of the worst was a QX4 that hadn't had the oil changed in 30,000 miles. Took about four flushes to get it to flow again. Only thing better is mechanical removal from a disassembled engine.

[QShip]

How do you find garages that use this process?

[PalmerWMD]

How do you find garages that use this process?

many Large Toyota dealers have those, as they have a larger pool of sludgy engines than others.

Also call around for larger independents they sometimers have those.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

Otherwise for lighter cases ( and this is part of my normal oil change routine)

Either add a quart of MOBIL1 ATF to crankcase and idle /gently drive for 45-60 <immediately> before draining oil.

Or (varnish only) run a bottle of seafoam in your oil, for a week preceding your oil change.

Fred...

[Q45tech]

"gently drive for 45-60 <immediately> before draining oil."

Just make sure it is a life or death situation for you to exceed maybe 3,000 rpm while the ATF is in there .............as the bearings will already be worn thinner due to accumulated miles.

Conventional ATF is not designed to survive the temperatures you routinely see in engine bearings [oil is 20F hotter than coolant in the pan] 50-100-150F hotter in the bearings and on the rings. That's why I use T4 or Mobil 1 Syn ATF as an additive/cleaner.

Wouldn't want you to destroy the ATF and add to the problem.

[Qgrappler]

So wait a second. Are we saying you can put Mobil one ATF in the oil system and use it to somehow thin the oil and flush deposits before an oil change??

Now I dont feel so bad about mistakenly putting the quart of Mobil 1 atf in my landcruiser by mistake when I entended to add oil. [The doggone containers look almost exactly the same.]

Does q45 tech think this is ok to do as long as you dont leave the stuff in there that long?? What ratio of atf to oil do you think the system can tolerate for short periods of time? Also, what is the BGF oil flush being mentioned??

Thanks

[PalmerWMD]

1)So wait a second. Are we saying you can put Mobil one ATF in the oil system and use it to somehow thin the oil and flush deposits before an oil change??2)Does q45 tech think this is ok to do as long as you dont leave the stuff in there that long?? 3)What ratio of atf to oil do you think the system can tolerate for short periods of time?

Thanks

1) Most putting the extra detergents in ATF to work, ATF is kinda like thin motor oil but with a LOT of extra detergents.Its not made to run as hot as motor oil which is why we recommend specifically synthetic ATF only (like MOBIL1)2) I dont know what dennis thinks but I think an idle or even gentle drive right before the oil change fopr 45-60 minutes should enable you to take advanantage of the extra detergents and do some cleaning up.Just a little cleaning up, Not as much cleaning up as a kerosense based flush, but that actully good ,cuz u DO NOT> want to use anything harsh.3) I like to put no more than 1 quart in a 6 quart system (overfill condition in a Q45), but many on some obscure oil boards feel comfortable, with much higher ratios.I don't and do it often instead of hi conc.

Fred..

[Q45tech]

ATF is approximately the same weight as 30 weight engine oil at 212F..................however you have to be careful in diluting the additives in the oil. At higher engine speeds the oil exceeds the safe operating temperature of ATF and the ATF may just add to the varnish. ATF just has a different set of additives than engine oil.

The BG Purge is pine tar oil, creosote, kerosene and some other items NEVER leave this in or drive the car under load ......fast idle usually ok.................but you must monitor the real oil pressure with a gauge.

The BG Quick Clean is a set of very volatile solvents similar to the components in gasoline [xylene, toluene].......it dissolves the varnish making it soluble in the oil so they can be drained out....Why you run it for 15-30 minutes and drain the oil.

You have to see what it is that you are trying to remove chemically so you can decide what to use.

None of these chemicals will work fast [especially in varnish] sometimes you need to do the process dozens of times in 6 months with daily or weely oil changes ............all depends on the severity of the abuse.

Don't ever add chemicals other than something benign without looking in the valve covers [remove the passenger side one].

[PalmerWMD]

Don't ever add chemicals other than something benign without looking in the valve covers [remove the passenger side one].

It costs approx $500 labor to take off an Q oil pan.If you have a lot of sludge and use a kerosene based flush like CD2 or anything else that says to "leave in idle for 5 min and then drain" its too harsh.

Or you may have to repeatedly drop the pan drive a day or 2 , drop pan again, drive some wmore , drop pan again... to keep the oil flowing from sludge that keeps breaking off.

Fred...

[forecast]

so don't hate me, I wasn't really asking for my Q. The Q's engine is splendidly clean - I recently disassembled the entire thing and tanked everying but the valve covers. The valve covers got four cans of brake parts cleaner each.

I have this '90 mitsubi--- I just got ... and what I can see inside the valve cover through the oil filler cap is not pretty. I'll pull the valve cover and take some samples.

But I won't be changing the oil for a while yet since I decided to take the Q to Kansas. (got some better shocks and springs and it rides like a dream again)

[QShip]

many Large Toyota dealers have those, as they have a larger pool of sludgy engines than others.

Also call around for larger independents they sometimers have those.

Thanks Fred!

[maxnix]

many Large Toyota dealers have those, as they have a larger pool of sludgy engines than others. - Fred...

Some Honda dealers and the Infiniti dealer in Seattle have them.

__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

Discover the power of the button!

[greg_atlanta]

Gentle and gradual is the key. I'd recommend BG Quick Clean and occasional use of Marvel Mystery Oil.

Also, use BG MOA (now called BG 111??) as oil additive. I normally use 1/2 can per oil change, but a full can is OK to.

[greg_atlanta]

As texasoil has commented before, conventional oil has a higher natural detergency than synthetic.

[elwesso]

Ok... Time to resurrect.....

Do I add the quart of ATF to the oil system as it is..... or do I need to drain a qt and then add????? Its about oil change time, and i think it wouldnt hurt, especially since i have a gallon of ATF in the garage........

[PalmerWMD]

Just add to the oil no need to darin the overfill condition cna be tolerated for short time.

Fred..

[elwesso]

Will it mess it up if it sits for a little while (like 10 mins).... Or does it need to be driven and then drained within seconds of turning off the car????

What will the ATF do..... Sludge and varnish, or just one???

[Q45tech]

If it took 100,000 miles to get dirty don't believe you can clean it in one application of anything or any process think 10,000 miles/6 months as a proper cleaning interval.Weekly oil changes [or when ever the oil turns the least bit dirty] usually 500 miles or 10 hours of use.

The engine is clean when the oil stays brand new looking at 1000-1500 miles or two-three weeks.

ATF should never be left in if you plan on exceeding 2,000 rpms under load like driving on the street........ok in shop to go to 2,000 rpm in Park- no load.

You just can't imagine how hard it is to clean the engine until you try everything available............externally - like trying to clean the inside of valve covers with then off and exposed .....hours and hours to make them clean as new with things you wouldn't dare use in oil for even a minute!

The problem is the baked on oil has chemically bonded to aluminum at 300F and using room temperature solvents or things safe enough to not destroy something else is a fine line!