Getting rid of the brake booster for clearence?

[Craving4Boost]

Hey guys I came across this and I thought it was pretty interesting how this person solved his master cylinder clearence issues by getting rid of the brake booster. He hasn't really updated how it really felt but I was just wondering the Cons of this set up. here is the link...http://www.turbo240sx.ca/projects/projects-240sx2.php

but here is what the finale looks like...



let me know what you guys think

[Dammitboy]

Although that obviously helps with clearance, that will severely compromise braking performance. Running a turbo will make you faster, but are you prepared to have weak brakes?

[Craving4Boost]

how severe are we talking about here? I already cleared my brake master cylinder but just want some input.

[nzmoman]

Dont remove your brake booster! if you can find some way to relocate it that would be neat, but that would probably cost some serious $$$$$$$.

that booster is the only thing that you have if you have any line or pedal problems. Just in case you didnt know, it pressurizes your brake system when there is a problem with the fluid, lines or flow. When a booster goes you only have your handbrake and if you are on the interstate it is a very hard stop, especially if you need it. The boost isnt worth your life or anyone elses. If that is your car in the pic I would put it back on. Moving the turbo is a much wiser option. I dont even recall seeing any track cars without brake boosters! because it is that important

[WDRacing]

If I were drag racing and had a chute and needed the clearence for a T51 KAI, then maybe. Other then that...dude, bad idea.

[SeanC]

that booster is the only thing that you have if you have any line or pedal problems. Just in case you didnt know, it pressurizes your brake system when there is a problem with the fluid, lines or flow. When a booster goes you only have your handbrake and if

please stop posting false information. the booster is in no way there to pressurize the hydraulic brake system. there is simply a diaphram in the booster that has vacuum on the front of it from the engine and atmospheric pressure on the other side, a spring keeps the diaphram in place until you start pressing the pedal, when this occurs the diaphram inside moves towards the brake master cylinder helping ie: boosting you pressing the brakes. the only thing it does is make the pedal less hard to press down. it gives you more advantage to move the fluid. i would say do not do it with a master cylinder designed to have a booster. there are some master cylinders that are not supposed to have a booster and they have greater mechanical advantage to allow you to push the brakes without as much effort.

[nzmoman]

well after working at a car dealership, not a tech, I have read information that have said that the booster adds pressure. Not enough to drive on but enough to use in case of emergency to aid in bringing the car to a stop. I can only go with what I have been told.

http://www.myhonestmechanic.co...shtml

after just looking this up I think I really may have misunderstood what I was reading but I really think that the pressure provided by the brake booster is enough to add temporary stopping ability to leaky systems as when a system gets air in it or if it is low on fuel there would be no way to stop the car effectively without one. I even had to replace the brake master cyl on a rusted chassis and I was pretty much driving with only the pressure generated from the booster (only did it once for a short distance). I had leaked everything from my reservoir and maybe a little more. but with the car off the pedal went to the floor, with the car on the pedal would rise and I could pump the breaks to a stop, also feathering the handbrake.

SeanC any comment>? im all ears.

[WDRacing]

Its just vacuum assisted brakes. It would be like driving an old beater with non power brakes. Trust me they suck. Power brakes are where its at.

If this was an all out drag car, then maybe.

[srblacks131]

if you really wanted to get rid of the booster, you could. like everyone is saying it would suck while braking. next time your out with your can take the vacuum line of your boosted. put a bolt or plug in it or something so you dont have a huge leak. then go drive and see how you like it. the only other way i would drive without one is to move the pivot point on the brake pedal. ive seen people do it but that takes some major work sometimes

[WDRacing]

Moving the pivot point creates a bigger leverage arm correct? Hence decreasing the amount of force required to attain the required fluid pressure.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then it makes sense. Alot of the older cars, trucks used very long lever arms for the brake pedal for this exact reason.

WD

[KATwo40]

That's exactly what he's saying, WD.

My old 66 Buick had manual brakes...WHOA MAN that sucker was hard to stop! I suppose it didn't help any that it also had 4 wheel drum brakes LOL.

You can remove the booster, but the car will suck to drive.

[WDRacing]

Dude, non power assist drum brakes ...LMAO. That is THE worst combo ever. My buddy's Fairliane was like that...God.

[srblacks131]

yea, thats what im saying. its just physics. my friend did it in his camaro. you just gotta know what your doing and have some skills.

[Craving4Boost]

if you really wanted to get rid of the booster, you could. like everyone is saying it would suck while braking. next time your out with your can take the vacuum line of your boosted. put a bolt or plug in it or something so you dont have a huge leak. then go drive and see how you like it. the only other way i would drive without one is to move the pivot point on the brake pedal. ive seen people do it but that takes some major work sometimes

yeah maybe I will plug up the brake booster to see how it feels...just for kicks. I'm always down to be more appreciative for the simple things....

[nb07bcar]

Removing the master is much better for racing. If you road race the car or other types of racing then its great. you can feel so much more in the wheels. where the booster takes alot of the feeling away. I have it off but i have a lighter car than you 240's. and i upgraded to 300zx 4 piston calipers and brembo, so I stops on a dime.

[Craving4Boost]

Removing the master is much better for racing. If you road race the car or other types of racing then its great. you can feel so much more in the wheels. where the booster takes alot of the feeling away. I have it off but i have a lighter car than you 240's. and i upgraded to 300zx 4 piston calipers and brembo, so I stops on a dime.

so you're saying a brake upgrade is sufficient enough to make up for the lost of the brake booster?

[nb07bcar]

is not so much of a loss. Its just you have to push harder to stop. but my car weighs 2200lbs. your 240 is like 3000lbs so that makes a big difference. but I have raced cars that weigh 3700lbs with no booster and it works just fine. you just have to press hard. The booster is just there to make it easier for you. If your planning to road race it I would. You can feel the tires and what they are doing so much better.

[Florida240sx]

interesting..... Just means you have to make the car stop... I've already gotten rid of my ac and power steering...

[Craving4Boost]

Is there risk of brakes locking up since you have to push on the brakes harder if this is done?

[C-Kwik]

Cars designed with no booster uses different fluid ratios btween the master cylinders and calipers and lever ratios between the master cylinder and your foot. Generally, you'll have a much longer pedal movement so that your foot can actually provide enough pressure to slow the car down reasonably. You can get extremely good pedal feel from a car equipped with a brake booster.

Most race cars that use no brake booster do so only because the rules say they can't. It would be very likely that if they allowed them, they would have them. Shorter pedal throws and lower effort make it much easier to feel and respond to inputs. A long pedal throw will make it take longer for you to move the pedal quickly. Stiff pedals would make you have to stand on the brakes everytime and it would be hard to feel any feedback. Not to mention the fatigue over a long race.

For a street car, you could possibly get decent results if you used a highly responsive brake pad, but I'd expect if you did this that parts would be expensive and they would wear quite quickly.

[pr240sx]

If my memory doest not fail me, there is a Mitsubishi Mirage, quite old, maybe from the 8x that has the booster on the passenger side.Why we cant fab something like this?

[lrb_2000]

If my memory doest not fail me, there is a Mitsubishi Mirage, quite old, maybe from the 8x that has the booster on the passenger side.Why we cant fab something like this?

RHD conversion!

[daconkiftador]

RHD conversion!

fo' shizzle, dizzle!

[nb07bcar]

I have never driven a car(with booster) that has the same feeling of one with out. And most divisions in racing don't have any rules about boosters. This is just from my experiance. But u are right about masters. if your going to conver u should find a car that uses no boooster and use its master. I used the 240 master and its fine with my application and upgraded brakes and light car. I would recomend if you are not making your car to race then just use the booster, but if you need clearance then just upgrade the brakes and you should b fine.

[pr240sx]

Wasnt a RHD conversion.Also, we can run a electric assited or fluid assited power brakes (like Grand Nationals) but we aware that the older one (84-85) uses power steering fluid while the 86-87 and Turbo Trans Am uses electric assited power brakes.

[C-Kwik]

Brake response is measured in different ways. A firm pedal is nice, but not at the expense of actual braking performance. Meaining, if a brake pedal is so hard to press that you either can't press the pedal enough to actually stop as quickly as is possible from the car, then it's not a great trade off. And firm pedals are not absent from boosted brake systems. A lot of newer cars exhibit great break feel. And well designed high end brake systems will do the same. Lastly, if you read my last post more carefully, I never comented that most racing organizations have rules about brake boosters. I was talking about racecars that don't use boosters don't, generally because the rules do not allow them. Look towards the major professional racing organizations and you'll find rules that prohibit the use of boosters. I've read that F1 race cars could actually stop faster than they do from high speeds if the drivers were able to push down on the brakes harder. Though, I don't know if the G forces involved with that would be safe either.

[SeanC]

a reverse mounted master would be way easier and easier to set up.

kinda like this:http://www.wilwood.com/Product...x.asp