Get me up to speed on sportster "black guns" and VA. laws please

Post by **themadscientist** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:03 pm

Alright. I have been out of the country for 15 years and I didn't own personal weapons when I was there. I am thinking about buying one of those spooky scary "assult rifles" before the new administration comes to power.

Don't try to turn this into a political discussion, we have a forum for that and there is already a thread about it.

I am leaning towards an M4. I am not impressed with the 5.56 round and with the M16s tendency to jam anywhere near a a speck of dirt but at least I have a good deal of experience operating and maintaining this action when I was in the Corps so that is something.

I just picked up a magazine to see what is out there and I am overwhelmed. This seems to be quite a lucrative industry with guys dolling up the rifle more than a D1 drift car.

I don't need all that ****, don't need a grenade launcher, a bayonet, laser sight, compass, can opener and universal remote on my weapon. A basic well-built M4 with iron sights and a collapsable stock is fine.

Anybody have one?Who made it?Do you like it?What are these things costing?

If you have a paticular weapon you like and think I should take a look at it please let me know. I have pretty much ruled out an AK, too big with too much hate associated with it that I don't need aimed at me.

Any Virginia residents here who could square me away on the laws on these rifles? Mag capacity, stock type etc, I would be grateful.

I have to have a freind get it for me and store it away for when I come back.

Post by **Repo Man** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:42 am

Mike, I recently picked up a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with removable carrying handle and six position adjustable stock for $879. Retail on it is $1319, so I feel like I got a great deal. This was pre-election. Now prices are already going up, so it looks like it will be a good investment.

I have not shot it yet, but I'm sure it will perform just fine. S&W has been making guns for a LONG time and it is made here in the U.S. That's something that is pretty rare these days.

I was in a gun shop yesterday near Indy. Their prices started at $599 for a lower-end AR and went up. Many places however are sold out, so if you can hop on a decent deal, do it.

Post by **bobotech** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:05 am

Its not a matter of choosing what you want, its a matter of buying what you find as soon as you find it.

It is totally a seller's market.

Don't buy anything that the dealer has to "order". Only buy something that they have in stock. Gunbroker might be okay if its a trusted seller.

Post by **Beancooker** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:22 am

I had an Olympic arms version of the M-4. It had a bull barrell, and for a 5.56 round was exceptionally accurate up to 300+ yards. I'm not that great of a shooter either. With a better shooter who could account for windage, the accuracy could have been much better at a farther distance.

Olympic arms makes a quality rifle, and the bonus for me is that their manufacturing plant is only a couple of miles from home. Upgrades were able to be bought through the sales shop at the manufacturing facility, and were 5% above wholesale.

If there were ever any problems with it (which there never were) it was a quick trip right down the road to have it serviced.

For someone who doesn't live close, it would still be a great buy. It's quality is great, as well as their customer service. They are very reasonably priced also, in comparison to a Bushmaster, Armalite or Colt.

http://www.olyarms.com/

Just my 2¢

Post by **themadscientist** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:14 pm

Wow, this one chambers 7.62 rounds! http://www.olyarms.com/index.p...id=37

I wonder what firing the heavier round from a lightweight platform like the AR15 is like.

Post by **Mr1der** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:58 pm

Not that bad.

the AR design actually goes a long way to reduce recoil.

me personally, **** an AR. I want my Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM II

Post by **Beancooker** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:50 pm

themadscientist wrote:Wow, this one chambers 7.62 rounds! http://www.olyarms.com/index.p...id=37

I wonder what firing the heavier round from a lightweight platform like the AR15 is like.

I shot a rirle similar to that but it shot the .308 and had a little heavier frame. I have searched, and can't find the manufacturer. I can't remember the name. AFAIK, they were one of the first to make an *M-16* style rifle chambered for the .308

This is a little more spendy, but has a much better cartridge. 7.62 x 51 (.308)

http://www.armalite.com/ItemFo...48776

Post by **Mr1der** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:01 pm

Armalite and Stoner have been making the .308 rifles for a long time....

I still just not a fan of the rifles....I'd like to get of the HK416 if I had to get an AR style rifle.

honestly, I'd probably opt for a HK93 or a 53 for the price of the rifles however.

Bushmaster is another quality maker.

they're on the cheaper side too.

if you REALLY wanna get a personal touch, you can always buy a lower reciever and get the parts separately for a fully custom and personal gun.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:55 pm

How about POF? Pretty sexy in 7.62

Post by **Axel Grungy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:05 am

Mr1der wrote:Not that bad.

the AR design actually goes a long way to reduce recoil.

me personally, **** an AR. I want my Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM II

i have the airsoft version haha

Post by **ddgsxr504** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:17 pm

Being in the Corps (SSgt still Active Duty) they are by far the easiest weapon to clean and keep up. I have been to Iraq 3 times and I have fired well over 2000 rounds and never had one jam on me YET, but then again I am overly anal retentive about my weapons (even the ones issued to me by the government).

Unfortunately it is a sellers market, but trying to buy one that's in stock... laughable. I had to wait almost 6 months to get this one...

Colt Match Target M4 Carbine Rifle MT6400C, 223 Rem, 16", Semi-Auto, Black Synth Stock, Matte Black Finish

It only comes with safe and semi but she'll get the job done. I already supplied myself with about a dozen 30 round mags, and switched the handguards out for the picanny rail accessory ones. I would love to get one of these b*tches though,

Being in the Corps (SSgt still Active Duty) they are by far the easiest weapon to clean and keep up. I have been to Iraq 3 times and I have fired well over 2000 rounds and never had one jam on me YET, but then again I am overly anal retentive about my weapons (even the ones issued to me by the government).

I am not a huge fan of the 5.56 nato round but it is a fine piece of weaponry with UNLIMITED accessories and possibilities.

Post by **Mr1der** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:49 pm

I'm still not a fan

about anything that's a military rifle will be easy to clean and maintain though...I hate needing tools to break something down.

like my 10/22

I love the rifle...but hate tearing it down.

Post by **s0m3th1ngAZ** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:57 pm

What about a Tactical style mini-30 (or 14)? Lots of aftermarket support and with a better barrel the mini-30s are incredible, or so I hear.

Post by **bobotech** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:04 pm

ScorchedNX2K wrote:What about a Tactical style mini-30 (or 14)? Lots of aftermarket support and with a better barrel the mini-30s are incredible, or so I hear.

I have never had the desire for a mini-14 or 30 ever. I think that if I want someting to shoot 5.56, I will use an AR and if I want something to shoot 7.62x39, I will just use an AK or SKS.

Mags are NOT cheap on the minis. Mags on ARs and AKs are fairly cheap still.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:51 am

yup.

I just ordered five of the Tapco 20 round poly mags for my SKS.

from everything I've heard, it's the best you can get for them.

I also ordered a black T6 stock for it.

I think I'm gonna have it sent off and hard chromed or a nickel duracoat finish put on it as it has surface rust because of my stupidity.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sat May 02, 2009 6:00 am

Well, the dream sheet in order of spankability.

POF 3087.62, piston driven. Big, heavy, big round, and likely rather expensive to acquire and to maintain.

LWRC M6A26.8, piston driven. Good balance of ballistics compared to the 7.62 and 5.56 but still pricey to maintain with less round availability and expensive mags.

Sig Sauer 5565.56, piston driven. Dead sexy, and a little bit cheaper to run. I accepts standard AR mags

If I folded that much bank I would get one of the first two for serious shooting and the Sig for f***in around. I don't though. It is really going to depend on price and availability. I think I would be very happy to own any of them. All of them are well liked by their owners and none use that legacy impingement system that I hated so much in the A2. dirty dirty dirty, and not in the good way.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:28 am

I see the SIGs more and more...saw a pistol version yesterday.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:11 pm

the pistols are sexy but I want a stock. Attach one though and I now have a class III weapon, and all the BS that goes with that.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:44 pm

I agree fully.

I have no use for the pistol...

a 16" barrel with a nice collapsible or the great sidefolders the SIG rifles have is small enough.

I need to see what kind of groups people are putting up with them.

that's the best part of the AR, they're cheap and give great accuracy.

I MIGHT wind up building one anyway...you can get a lower receiver fairly cheap anyway.

EDIT: s***...I just googled the price on a Spike's Tactical receiver...I can probably get one for about 180 bucks...

time to go ask a dealer about getting one....damnit...stupid AR's...ah well, I can always get a gas piston upper.

Post by **sci2000tech** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:25 pm

Mr1der wrote: ah well, I can always get a gas piston upper.

You CAN, but a properly built/maintained gas upper will work just as well

Post by **themadscientist** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:51 pm

and run dirty and hot. I would not spend my money on an impingement-type AR.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:16 pm

man do they get dirty...

I really wish they weren't so damn cheap...

I saw a CETME in a shop Friday for like 599...it was kinda tempting...I'd have to look it over and do some research on who built it though...some of them really really suck.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:48 pm

I am really about to take it in the seat. The mad rush to snap up scary guns before a new AWB can be run through has prices through the roof. I am probably going to be paying 500-1K over list for whatever I can actually get my hands on. Dammit!

At least I am not waiting for an H&K MR556/762. Those guys are pretty pissed at the consistent inconsistency of getting product.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:25 am

eh...I wouldn't pay that much for it anyway.

for those kind of prices, I'd jump on a SOCOM II or a SIG

I dunno, we'll see if I buy an AR lower in a few weeks or not.

less than 200 bucks for the start isn't bad...I'll just buy parts at random then and decide what upper I'm gonna run.

probably do a carbine with a 16" barrel and collapsible.

I'm thinking a flat top with an Aimpoint....maybe NV on it too because it'd be badass.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:23 pm

Wharever I get must be flat top. I want to get one of those nifty eotech holo sights. f-in cool man!

Post by **Mr1der** » Sun May 03, 2009 2:48 pm

indeed

dunno what I'll put on top of it....it'll have a backup iron site on it for a while though...

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/a....html

Post by **themadscientist** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:51 pm

I was taught on iron sights and I can put rounds on a man-sized target with that touchy A2, so it isn't like I can't live without the optics but after watching the EoTech demo, DAYM, THAT'S COOL!

The dealer I contacted can't get the POF but he can get the LWRC and the Sig. The 6.8 still strikes a chord with me, I am not much saddened by the POF being taken off the table. I think the LWRC is the best balanced choice of the three. I can always pick up a 5.56 upper to if I want to switch the rifle over to "plinking" mode.

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:40 pm

eh....5.56 isn't horrible...the big 60 grain bullets seem to be working better.

I'm all about having a mainstream caliber for something like that though...especially if it's gonna be a SHTF kinda rifle.

Post by **themadscientist** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:09 pm

LWRC says 4 months backlog. The dealer says fat chance on that. I might get the 5.56 if the upper receivers switch out and try to get a 6.8 upper later. You don't need an FFL to get an upper receiver right?

Post by **Mr1der** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:39 pm

nope.

just the lower.

should be able to just swap out the uppers....I think .50 Beowolf will use a normal lower too

Get me up to speed on sportster "black guns" and VA. laws please

Get me up to speed on sportster "black guns" and VA. laws please

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