Gee, big surprise...

[AZhitman]

Drunk, lazy, overpaid union workers, doing their thing:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/14/chry ... nch-break/

I'm sure the UAW doesn't condone such behavior, but they sure as hell aren't being very forceful about it (or proactive).

And people wonder why the Sebring was such a pile of crap?

Buy American my a$$. I'll buy a Nissan built in Tennessee, thanks.

[bigbadberry3]

I'm sure the UAW doesn't condone such behavior, but they sure as hell aren't being very forceful about it (or proactive).

You did read the article where it says that the last 13 workers caught doing this were fired?

[srellim234]

In general I don't support union behavior and as a former owner of one I think Chryslers are junk.

With that said, how do you know the union hasn't been proactive? Do you have interaction with the UAW and their actions at the plants and with the industry or are you just fabricating your assumption from a couple of articles that provide no evidence?

What evidence do you have that they have no rehab available? What evidence do you have that people can't turn themselves in to get help? What evidence do you have that they don't have a proper "through channels" reporting system and something in place to deal with them in a timely manner?

Laws, regulations, rehab programs and the like still don't stop certain people from doing stupid things. Bear in mind, too, that it was apparently union workers that reported it though there is no indication that the offenses were ever reported through the proper channels.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever that supports your conclusion about the union in this case. What the union has done or hasn't done already is the evidence. You've presented absolutely zero.The union's reaction will provide evidence. Let's see if they bother with an attempt to save the drinkers' jobs or if they let them go for the offenses.

[R/T Hemi]

It's too bad, but I'll bet that happens at every plant in the US.

Chrysler has come a long way in the last 5 years. I used to think all their cars were pot metal heaps, but they have stepped up with some cars that are without equal. The 2012 Charger and 300C have no equal in the market now. Rear drive 300 to 475 HP V8 cars are few and far between at prices that are affordable to the average working guy. The Challenger is presenting itself well against Mustang GTs and SS Camaros. The Hemi is a dead engine, doomed to a life with 2 valves , but it still kicks out some awesome torque numbers. Life begins at 400 lb/ft. All the above mentioned cars ride on Mercedes S and E class suspensions, albeit 2003 vintage. Even the A/T is a copy of Mercedes box. All this from their ex-marriage to MB. It would be a shame to see a few drunk morons destroy a company that's rising from the grave with a viable offering.

[AZhitman]

Chrysler fired 13 people back in September of 2010, not because they saw this happening, but only because the reporter's coverage went viral.

This most recent group (15 employees) were suspended. Not fired. Suspended.

"The United Auto Workers strongly opposes the use of controlled substances or alcohol use on the job," the United Auto Workers the union said in part of its statement Thursday. "This type of behavior jeopardizes the health and safety of all employees. We also recognize that, unfortunately, these behaviors exist in our society." A union spokeswoman did not respond to phone calls for further comment.

By the way, what they DIDN'T mention in the article was that the "park" that the employees were frequenting is NOT a public park. It's private property. And the private property they were using for their "lounge"? It's owned by the UAW, and just steps away from a United Auto Workers hall.

And no one saw anything? Defend away.

And yes, I agree with R/T that it's a shame that a few morons are casting others in a bad light.

[srellim234]

In fact, they were NOT in a park. The fired workers from last September's incident at a different plant were in a park. This group was in the parking lot at the UAW hall. No evidence that any union official knew what was taking place there.

The employees were appropriately suspended without pay by Chrysler pending the outcome of the investigation. I believe we have something called due process and innocent until proven guilty in this country. As far as you know the union is not only cooperating with the investigation but will allow uncontested terminations once everything is confirmed.

Likewise, the union may very well be cooperating with the police to press forward with criminal charges since it happened on their property. You don't know that and neither do I.

The story from Fox Detroit:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/lo ... 0110713-dk

Based on what I see, your condemnation of the union is still unwarranted at this time.

[AZhitman]

Interesting that they'd chose to use the UAW Union Hall parking lot as their "lounge". That implies some level of comfort with being there, as opposed to being someplace else. What gave them that impression? Wouldn't you think they'd be more inclined to "hang out" someplace where a union boss wouldn't be likely to accidentally see them?

[srellim234]

As for the quality of Chrysler products, my most recent experiences were with a 300 (non-turbo company fleet car) in 2006 and the PT Cruiser of my supervisor. Very low quality, rattle-trap interiors, noisy and falling apart. The 300 was brand new; the windshield washer quit within 3 weeks and the clock was an analog that required you to hold the button and roll it 12 hours forward to set it. The automatic transmission shifted very roughly and the dealer insisted that was normal. They took me out in another 300 and I guess they were right because it shifted just as poorly.

If they've gotten better, so be it. Personally I'm not prepared to give them another shot after owning one in the '80s, getting into a couple of them 20 years later and still finding horrible quality.

[srellim234]

AZ, for all we know the union bosses were encouraging it. Or not. We have no evidence either way. If they're dealing with long-time employees I could see where they could perceive that the union would look the other way. That's the way it was in unions in the '70s, '80s and '90s. Times have changed; ways of doing business have changed. The old status quo hasn't changed enough yet but it's getting there out of necessity.

We also don't know what the protocol is for reporting these instances either. The news reporter never indicated that his informants ever made any attempt to get the issue resolved properly before they called the local "gotcha" news. If the union really didn't know and Chrysler management didn't know, why didn't they? Didn't the workers report it? Over such a prolonged period of time and repeat offenses was management so inept that they couldn't tell they had impaired workers on the floor?

[AZhitman]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217615086013325.html

The Challenger gets it's arse handed to it by the Camaro and the Mustang (hell, the V6 Mustang is a competitor). The 200 is a watered-down 300 (or a tarted-up Sebring). We've not forgotten turds like the Liberty, the Journey, the Compass, the Avenger... all crap.

Their latest commercials, trying to appeal to "urban youth" and NASCAR wannabes with style rather than substance simply tells me they'll be filling trailer parks, shady buy-here-pay-here dealerships and rental car lots for the next decade. The "Hemi" moniker was a joke to anyone who knows internal combustion - it was widely shown to be nothing more than a marketing ploy to evoke a mental image of "power" - the current Chrysler engines don't have hemispherical chambers.

This is a simple rehash of the Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth debacle of the late 70's (which resulted in a bailout from the government as well). How quickly we forget...

[R/T Hemi]

As for the quality of Chrysler products, my most recent experiences were with a 300 (non-turbo company fleet car) in 2006 and the PT Cruiser of my supervisor. Very low quality, rattle-trap interiors, noisy and falling apart. The 300 was brand new; the windshield washer quit within 3 weeks and the clock was an analog that required you to hold the button and roll it 12 hours forward to set it. The automatic transmission shifted very roughly and the dealer insisted that was normal. They took me out in another 300 and I guess they were right because it shifted just as poorly.

If they've gotten better, so be it. Personally I'm not prepared to give them another shot after owning one in the '80s, getting into a couple of them 20 years later and still finding horrible quality.

I guess that rubberband drive in your CVT has spoiled you for shifting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217615086013325.html

The Challenger gets it's arse handed to it by the Camaro and the Mustang (hell, the V6 Mustang is a competitor). The 200 is a watered-down 300 (or a tarted-up Sebring). We've not forgotten turds like the Liberty, the Journey, the Compass, the Avenger... all crap.

Their latest commercials, trying to appeal to "urban youth" and NASCAR wannabes with style rather than substance simply tells me they'll be filling trailer parks, shady buy-here-pay-here dealerships and rental car lots for the next decade. The "Hemi" moniker was a joke to anyone who knows internal combustion - it was widely shown to be nothing more than a marketing ploy to evoke a mental image of "power" - the current Chrysler engines don't have hemispherical chambers.

This is a simple rehash of the Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth debacle of the late 70's (which resulted in a bailout from the government as well). How quickly we forget...

Nice link. 2 1/2 yearsw old, but let's not let that stop us. Oh, and the handing it's a** thing....I seem to remember reading that the 2012 392 (SRT/8) kicked some serious arse, even sonsidering it's in a 25% bigger car than the Mustang of Camaro. Not to mention the Challenger 1320, which comes from the factory with an all aluminum 426 Hemi (7 liter) and a Dodge drag pack and the biggest damn tires on the back I've seen on a modern car. Oh, did I say the 1320 was street legal too?


Who does't want to take one of those to the strip.

I'll keep my 2010. I enjoy watch them selling used for a little more than I paid new. That's what you get for having a car that is in limited production. Plus, I can't drive it anywhere that it doesn't generate comments and praise. My wife was even stopped by a sheriff officer who "just wanted to see it up close." That never happened with any of my Nissans.

Anyway, back to my point. Chrysler has arrived.

[AZhitman]

I'll give you this: Your car is TONS more attractive than either the Mustang (butt-ugly since '64 with the exception of 69-70) or the Camaro (also butt-ugly since '68 with the exception of 70-72) ....flame suit on.

I wish the Challenger was about 7/8-scale (it's a lot bigger in person than it looks in pictures, far too big - and damn tall - to be considered a true "sports car"). But it is a good-looking design, for sure.

The new Charger makes me laugh. Trying to emulate the iconic '69 taillights and side scoops on a 4-door (70% of which will be V6's) is a travesty.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they've "arrived".

BTW, this is the first I've heard of the "1320". I'm sure it'll be fairly exclusive (and priced to match).

[srellim234]

I guess that rubberband drive in your CVT has spoiled you for shifting.

Not at all. Totally different car for a totally different purpose. The Versa fits the role of everyday car getting almost 30 mpg that is very comfortable for my parents in their mid-80s to get in and out of and ride in. Mechanically it's been a very sound, reliable car. Issues have been with the dealer service dep't, not the car.

As for being spoiled by the shifting, read the post again and look at the dates. The shifting issues with the Chrysler were before the Versa even was on dealer lots in this country. I went to the company Chrysler from the Geo Metro stick shift (strictly a 150 mile a day commuter) and full size Chevy Blazer V-8 with an automatic in the driveway. I've rented over three dozen makes and models since '98 on business trips. Rough shifting, interior rattling and cheap plastic parts failing on a Chrysler have absolutely nothing at all to do with any other car company.

It doesn't mean I'm going to defend Nissan to the death or even buy another one. I'm almost sure I wouldn't. But I'm not about to replace it with a Chrysler.

[AZhitman]

I guess that rubberband drive in your CVT has spoiled you for shifting.

...says the guy with the T-handle automatic and a faux hood scoop.

Just out of curiosity, why not spring for the extra $1100 for the SRT-8? Seems to me like a no-brainer. Not bashing, just honestly wondering what's the logic in that.

[bigbadberry3]

the Mustang (butt-ugly since '64 with the exception of 69-70) flame suit on.

What! I'm currently deciding between a GT and Boss 302 and they aren't ugly (and not slow either ) I will admit thought the Challenger is the best "redone" muscle car looks wise but it still lags in performance which is the soul of a muscle car.

[IBCoupe]

A car conversation on these forums? How did this happen? :P

[AZhitman]

The Mustang is ugly. Looks like a Down's Syndrome baby with a loaded diaper.

[BusyBadger]

I'll give you this: Your car is TONS more attractive than either the Mustang (butt-ugly since '64 with the exception of 69-70) or the Camaro (also butt-ugly since '68 with the exception of 70-72) ....flame suit on.

What! I'm currently deciding between a GT and Boss 302 and they aren't ugly (and not slow either ) I will admit thought the Challenger is the best "redone" muscle car looks wise but it still lags in performance which is the soul of a muscle car.

Repeat after me (or actually, Louis Sullivan), "Form follows function."









Yeah...that last one's a trick.

Now there's no need for aftermarket rice-type stylings that are all show and no go since you can get them directly from the manufacturer at the time of purchase.

Greg, I agree with you about the 70-72 Camaro - but the same era Firebird is better still.

[IBCoupe]

[The production version of the Scion FR-S, to be revealed in five months] actually looks better. Take the Original FT86 concept, and add a little more flavor from Scion project's FRS Concept, then smooth down the lines so that it's less tuner looking, and more OEM finesse. Retain the 2000GT C-Pillar, sharpen the tail. And that's how a final version will be. (That's all I can tell you at this point.)

...

Take for example. The front dash has a beautiful sweeping line, and yet the front corners recessed into the front window base. I asked why... and Tada san replied... "It's so you can install a roll cage to regulations for many venues, without cutting up this dash"

...

What if I told you that FT86 has NO CD player, and no Navigation screen? It's entirely possible...
He figured we'd all have smart-phones to tell us where we're going by 2012, and all we need is an FM radio to tell us if the world is ending. And for all other times on the road, he's like us to listen to your favorite iPOD, or the beautiful sounds emanating from the exhaust system specifically designed for this car by the best ears at Yamaha Acoustic Instruments company. All this, while sitting in seats made in collaboration with the best aftermarket and OE racing operations and sports car makers.

[R/T Hemi]

I guess that rubberband drive in your CVT has spoiled you for shifting.

...says the guy with the T-handle automatic and a faux hood scoop.

Just out of curiosity, why not spring for the extra $1100 for the SRT-8? Seems to me like a no-brainer. Not bashing, just honestly wondering what's the logic in that.

My, my, my. I missed the T handle option. I saw the pistol grip option, but never the T handle option. Damn, I'd have liked that and some fuzzy dice.


Why not the SRT/8? Rumors were strong that it would change to a 500 HP option in the following year, as were rumors that the 3.5 would be departing in favor of the Penstar V6. The R/T was the recommended buy if you didn't want to wait for the new models.

I attend the Spring Festival of LX every April, (A Chrysler sponsored event) and they hint at what's coming in the new year plus display cars like their "claimed" (albeit not believed by the crowd ) sub 10 second 1320 Challenger. (It's more like low 11s, high 10s I hear). Roll cage in the back so it's not the thing for families. But that Dana 60 rear end is cute as are the electric cut outs on the exhaust. Terrorize your neighborhood fun right there.

And, true to their word, those two cars did change. SRT/8 is now the 392 SRT/8. Quite a different car. Go to your Dodge dealer and hump one for a few minutes and it will love you forever. But hurry, they too are in limited supply, very limited.

Anyway, back to that T handle. Is it aftermarket? I can tell you appreciate good things in cars.

[bigbadberry3]

The Mustang is ugly. Looks like a Down's Syndrome baby with a loaded diaper.

Like Badger said, form follows function. You can watch my pretty loaded tail light diapers drive farther and farther away

[AZhitman]

R/T can. I won't.

[bigbadberry3]

I hate you, so much. I'm too lazy to search, what's quicker your vette or drop top from hell?

[AZhitman]

LOL - you rock, B.

Definitely the C5, especially since she has new goodies. The vert would be faster based on power-to-weight, but it doesn't hook up for crap.

Regardless, that thing will feel like a Saturn rocket compared to what you drive now. I highly recommend a torque monster as your DD.