Gear head or knuckle head

[GJEMD]

This forum has recently been invaded by several so called "performance enthusiasts". In my time a "gear head". I am disturbed by the juvenile defensive attacks used by these individuals. I for one have concluded they are mostly "knuckle heads". My advise is to stop responding to these worthless exercises in Automotive pen15 envy.

[fiveliterbeater]

worthless exercises in Automotive pen15 envy.

..........can you pretend for a second that im 5 years old, and decifer what the hell is an "exercise in automotive pen15 envy"? approx 41 people have viewed this thread so far and i don't see anyone following you......pitty

p.s. tell your girl to quit calling me

[GJEMD]

approx 41 people have viewed this thread so far and i don't see anyone following you.

I see it, currently 77 hits and you are the only person that takes issue with my comments.

[EniGmA1987]

Im just confused by what exactly you are talking about?

[fiveliterbeater]

I see it, currently 77 hits and you are the only person that takes issue with my comments.

just wanted to see if you were going to be my "byotch" and make you reply to the mesg i sent you. apparently you care enough to see what i wrote, hence your senseless comment.....

thank you and please drive through

[maxnix]

Well, proabably better true performance (documentable and provable gains) enthusiasts vs. consmetic technicians ("I just painted eyebrows on my headlights!").

True performance gains don't come cheaply and seldomly shooting from the hip, even on luxury performance cars.

[fiveliterbeater]

Well, proabably better true performance (documentable and provable gains) enthusiasts vs. consmetic technicians ("I just painted eyebrows on my headlights!").

True performance gains don't come cheaply and seldomly shooting from the hip, even on luxury performance cars.

true that......... but i never understood why some people have to get their thongs in a bunch when someone adds a few more ponies under the hood of their car. whats wrong with wanting to go faster in a luxury car and sharing results with others?

[fiveliterbeater]

Im just confused by what exactly you are talking about?

.....we are talking about "exercises in automotive pen15 envy"

[jmcclain01]

At the end of the day it's realy about to each their own. If someone thinks it's worth a few hundred buck for a new intake or a few grand for an exhaust, why should they have to explain their reasoning. Apparently there are more people interested in these things then not or there would not be so many threads about these topics.

I am not interested in doing anything to mine, but enjoy passing time by reading threads about other people's cars and what they've done to them. Weather what they write is right or wrong matters not to me, just that they are enjoying what they're doing.

I suspect there are very few gear heads left in this world, but there are a lot of people who enjoy personalizing their cars.

[exbmwdude]

This forum has recently been invaded by several so called "performance enthusiasts". In my time a "gear head". I am disturbed by the juvenile defensive attacks used by these individuals. I for one have concluded they are mostly "knuckle heads". My advise is to stop responding to these worthless exercises in Automotive pen15 envy.

I've experienced much the same as you, so much so I have spent my time elsewhere. I tried to help a few of these juvi's and came away astounded at their ignorance coupled with arrogance.

To recap:

This is car with almost no aftermarket.

This is a car that Nissan has made difficult to modify (ECU).

This is a luxury sedan, and not a terribly fast one these days.

People looking to go a "litte faster" can certainly do the intake/exhaust thing and maybe get a few 1/10's more out of it. People looking for substantial gains - with a budget to match - I have not seen on this forum. I HAVE seen a lot of wanna-bees that that waste time and spout nonsense.

Have patience, they will go away of their own accorg. This is not really a car for speed freaks. A G37 will spank it hard and even that is not really fast any more. People seeking a lot of speed with their luxury would be better served in a Caddy, BMW or Benz showroom (or used car lot).

My $.02...as a gearhead

exbmwdude2006 M35S

[ken in az]

GJEMD

Would you care to name these individuals? I figure if you are name calling, then maybe you should point them out and stop hiding behind your shroud of uncertanty.

I'm sure if I were name calling I would actually have the decency to tell the person the way I feel rather than talk about them in an indirect fashion.

My response will wait.....or do I smell thread lock?

[jmcclain01]

I've experienced much the same as you, so much so I have spent my time elsewhere. I tried to help a few of these juvi's and came away astounded at their ignorance coupled with arrogance.

To recap:

This is car with almost no aftermarket.

This is a car that Nissan has made difficult to modify (ECU).

This is a luxury sedan, and not a terribly fast one these days.

People looking to go a "litte faster" can certainly do the intake/exhaust thing and maybe get a few 1/10's more out of it. People looking for substantial gains - with a budget to match - I have not seen on this forum. I HAVE seen a lot of wanna-bees that that waste time and spout nonsense.

Have patience, they will go away of their own accorg. This is not really a car for speed freaks. A G37 will spank it hard and even that is not really fast any more. People seeking a lot of speed with their luxury would be better served in a Caddy, BMW or Benz showroom (or used car lot).

My $.02...as a gearhead

exbmwdude2006 M35S

A true "gear head" can make anything fast. Off the floor this is an average performing car at best when compared to sports cars. But compared to other cars its size it's a great performing car. There's a very short list of cars, affordable to most people, that will out perform the M45.

I had an 05 6MT G35 sedan that I would put against any car you "gear heads" with knowledge above the rest, have in your garage. Keep in mind that has the same engine that my M35 has in it.

Bottom line, where there's a will there's a way, and I am the furthest thing from a gear head. Money and or hard work can solve any problem.

[ken in az]

Money and or hard work can solve any problem.

So true, and not only for this topic either -

[szh]

or do I smell thread lock?

I am leaning that way ... as long as the comments do not get personal, I will let it slide a bit for now ...

Z

[nmgoodthing]

Great! Another captain OEM thread!

[exbmwdude]

A true "gear head" can make anything fast. Off the floor this is an average performing car at best when compared to sports cars. But compared to other cars its size it's a great performing car. There's a very short list of cars, affordable to most people, that will out perform the M45.

I had an 05 6MT G35 sedan that I would put against any car you "gear heads" with knowledge above the rest, have in your garage. Keep in mind that has the same engine that my M35 has in it.

Bottom line, where there's a will there's a way, and I am the furthest thing from a gear head. Money and or hard work can solve any problem.

Compared to what I can buy for the same money, the M45 is a very average performing (in a straight line - the handling is VERY good I will agree) car. I did all the comparisons when I bought my M35 2 years ago and the M has fallen even farther behind since then. Comparing 2 year old CPO cars at the time, i could have bought a CTS-V (400HP) for about the same money. Some 545i's I looked at were more than the M35 I bought, but similar to CPO M45's. That's just two off the top of my head - there are plenty more (E55, S4, RS6, etc). Any will run and hide from an M45. Easily.

Again, the bottom line here is an expensive lesson I learned a long time ago. I've tried to pass this on to others, but some people just don't want to hear it.

With very, very few exceptions (usually turbo cars where you can increase the boost), it is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS cheaper to buy a faster car than it is to modify your current car. When you dump money into your car to make it faster, you end up finding all the weak points you've exposed by adding more power. You void warranties if you go too far, and you ALWAYS lose on resale because the next guy (rightly) doesn't want to get stuck with a rolling science experiment.

Seriously - who is going to dump $15-20K in an M45 turbo/blower/motor rebuild to get it up to 450-500hp? Then you will start breaking the transmission or rear end. Then you'll realize you need better brakes. It just goes on and on...

Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy a nice clean CPO M5, E55 or CTS-V to start with ? The M45 is not in their league and never will be. And you'll come out far ahead in the $$$ game by having a car engineered from the start for more power.

Am I less of a "gear head" for pointing out this obvious solution ?

exbmwdude2006 M35S

[ken in az]

Compared to what I can buy for the same money, the M45 is a very average performing (in a straight line - the handling is VERY good I will agree) car. I did all the comparisons when I bought my M35 2 years ago and the M has fallen even farther behind since then. Comparing 2 year old CPO cars at the time, i could have bought a CTS-V (400HP) for about the same money. Some 545i's I looked at were more than the M35 I bought, but similar to CPO M45's. That's just two off the top of my head - there are plenty more (E55, S4, RS6, etc). Any will run and hide from an M45. Easily.

Again, the bottom line here is an expensive lesson I learned a long time ago. I've tried to pass this on to others, but some people just don't want to hear it.

With very, very few exceptions (usually turbo cars where you can increase the boost), it is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS cheaper to buy a faster car than it is to modify your current car. When you dump money into your car to make it faster, you end up finding all the weak points you've exposed by adding more power. You void warranties if you go too far, and you ALWAYS lose on resale because the next guy (rightly) doesn't want to get stuck with a rolling science experiment.

Seriously - who is going to dump $15-20K in an M45 turbo/blower/motor rebuild to get it up to 450-500hp? Then you will start breaking the transmission or rear end. Then you'll realize you need better brakes. It just goes on and on...

Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy a nice clean CPO M5, E55 or CTS-V to start with ? The M45 is not in their league and never will be. And you'll come out far ahead in the $$$ game by having a car engineered from the start for more power.

Am I less of a "gear head" for pointing out this obvious solution ?

exbmwdude2006 M35S

Very good points indeed, but what if you don't like those vehicles. What if the M45 is more comfortable. What if "yadda yadda yadda..."you get the point. Buying new versus buying used is a different story all in its own also. The price that I bought my car at plus $5K I'd still be way cheaper than all those rides you pointed out. Hell, even if I went up to $10K I'd be just a bit over but not by much. Trust me I looked and I honestly wanted the M45 as it is the most optioned out of all those cars. When I made the decision to buy I realized that the M was out muscled but I figured a few mods would bring it to life. I just didn't realize how bad the aftermarket support was for this vehicle. Lucky for me I can do all the fab work myself.

Here's a cost breakdown for mods cheap to most expensive and I'm talking DIY and store bought.

Ken's Amsoil filter and JWT POP look alike Air Intake + heat sheild - $75 plus a little diy elboe greaseKen's X pipe mid exhaust mod - $90 for the X pipe, $80 for additional piping - $170Non Verified 300zx TT 3.69:1 R230 rear diff ~ $200Weopon R intake (do not recomend using their filter) - $220Injen CAI (only recomend to use the amsoil dry filter version and only on it's own with stock exhaust) - $270Megan axle back (CHIMADENA) - $280Megan Mid pipe (CHIMADENA) - $330Various HKS axle back ~ $600-$900Element 114 full (fitment issues) - $600-$800Stillen Full (Best of the bunch but cannot confirm fitment) - $900ish

Megan coil overs (CHIMADENA) - $1000TEIN Basic Coil Over - $1000

G37sport BBK - the entire kit Front and Rear can be purchased as cheaply as $1425 - add slotted/drilled rotors and Hawk pads and it only rises slightly

TEIN FLEX Coil Overs - $2000

UpRev ECU tuning - $400 plus dyno time - currently not available till I get my crap together and be the guinea pig but if someone were in the central texas area you could get it done in a day.Technosquare ECU Tuning - Don't offer our car but they do the FX45 with good results - SoCal area members can go direct and get the mod in a day

Turbo - This is a little tricky, depends on what you want and your fabrication skills. I'll assume that everyone has to pay for labor using an STS generic turbo kit for $3k plus $2k in fabrication at most - then either a JWT rising rate FPR and 255lph pump $400 or an UpRev tune $400DIY'ers can have it for much less by utilizing their fab skills and sourcing alternative parts to create a remote mount turbo setup.

Supercharger - only one kit was ever made for the VK45DE engine for the 2002 and prior Q45 w/o drive by wire. These kits were limited in numbers and very expensive upwards of $10k. However sourcing a take off supercharger from a ford lightning/mustang/shelby gt500 is fairly cheap but fabricating the kit to work correctly would be the most expensive aspect. I would assume $5k would be the cheapest for a custom supercharger setup.

I'd be safe to assume that more money is spent on wheels than actual mods to the car. I've seen some spend $4K on a set of wheels. To me that is rediculous, to them it is worthwhile. Some say that my mods are rediculous, but for me they are worthwhile. Do you see me or any other person calling them knuckle heads? Do you see anything negative from me about adding body kits? I don't like it and it's not my thing, but I support them still positively. Only time I get negative is when that negativity is oppressed upon me. Back me into a corner and I'll react - simple as that. Anyone - Call me a knuckle head, but you would be the one that is really being the knuckle head for your directly insulting acusations. I guarontee that if we all met up in person we would be as friendly and as cordial as possible because (and I hope) We all realize that this is a web forum to share thoughts and information.

[jadeM45]

I have a lot of expierence with this OEM vs Modders thing. It was very prevalant in the BMW world where I built my first project car. There was a majority of the group who had the mentality that OEM was the only way to do anything and if it was worth doing then why didn't the OEM do it?

The "why not just buy a faster car" question boils down to individuality to us modders. I don't want to pull up to another car that looks just like mine, or performs just like mine. So if I have the option to buy 1 car and put 10k into it or buy a 10k more expensive car that performs the same as the result of tuning the first car I would pick the modified one.

The reason is that now have something original and unique and to me that is important.

Another factor is with modding you can do it over time and as funds become available. You probably won't have the 10k up front but you can take a tax refund here and a bonus check there and build it up slowly.


Modified by jadeM45 at 1:08 PM 5/19/2009

[Andrew224]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy a nice clean CPO M5, E55 or CTS-V to start with ? The M45 is not in their league and never will be. And you'll come out far ahead in the $$$ game by having a car engineered from the start for more power.

I do agree. Better to take the money you were going to spend on mods and put it down on a better car. At the end of the day, a $10k car with $5k in mods is worth $10k, or maybe even less because you have to find someone who likes what you did to the car.

But on the other hand, if it's your thing, it's probably better than spending that money at the casino or at the bar. You have to look at it like an entertainment expense, not an investment. I used to restore old cars with my father (mostly Buicks from the '40s to the early 70's) as a hobby. When it was all said and done, my father nor I ever made a single cent from those cars we restored. Probably had to do with the fact that you often get carried away in trying to make it perfect (usually better than when they came from the factory (we always kept them bone stock)). But I will have those great memories forever and I enjoyed the challenge of each project car none-the-less. Not to mention the pride I felt from helping save a little piece of American automotive history from the crusher. In fact I'm itching to get another money pit old car as soon as I come across another once proud sad old car that calls out to me from the side of the road with undeniable potential and a for sale sign on it.

Andrew

[jmcclain01]

Compared to what I can buy for the same money, the M45 is a very average performing (in a straight line - the handling is VERY good I will agree) car. I did all the comparisons when I bought my M35 2 years ago and the M has fallen even farther behind since then. Comparing 2 year old CPO cars at the time, i could have bought a CTS-V (400HP) for about the same money. Some 545i's I looked at were more than the M35 I bought, but similar to CPO M45's. That's just two off the top of my head - there are plenty more (E55, S4, RS6, etc). Any will run and hide from an M45. Easily.

Again, the bottom line here is an expensive lesson I learned a long time ago. I've tried to pass this on to others, but some people just don't want to hear it.

With very, very few exceptions (usually turbo cars where you can increase the boost), it is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS cheaper to buy a faster car than it is to modify your current car. When you dump money into your car to make it faster, you end up finding all the weak points you've exposed by adding more power. You void warranties if you go too far, and you ALWAYS lose on resale because the next guy (rightly) doesn't want to get stuck with a rolling science experiment.

Seriously - who is going to dump $15-20K in an M45 turbo/blower/motor rebuild to get it up to 450-500hp? Then you will start breaking the transmission or rear end. Then you'll realize you need better brakes. It just goes on and on...

Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy a nice clean CPO M5, E55 or CTS-V to start with ? The M45 is not in their league and never will be. And you'll come out far ahead in the $$$ game by having a car engineered from the start for more power.

Am I less of a "gear head" for pointing out this obvious solution ?

exbmwdude2006 M35S

[/QUOTE]I agree with you, it is usually more effective to spend a little more money up front to get a better car then buy the cheaper one and add modifications. That being said, some people like the personalization aspect of the modifications more then the potential for drastic performance gains.

Also, we don't want to lose people on this board like yourself who do know what they're talking, but you're right, some people just don't want to listen to what educated people have to say. You just have to turn your back to it and move on. But some of do indeed like to read what you guys right and do try to learn from it. So keep doing what you do and people who want to will take things away from it.
Modified by jmcclain01 at 1:42 PM 5/19/2009

[fiveliterbeater]

.......being that your a "bmw dude" ,i sit here and wonder if you have the balls to go make comments like this: "I tried to help a few of these juvi's and came away astounded at their ignorance coupled with arrogance" or better, " This is a luxury sedan, and not a terribly fast one these days" to M5 owners. being a frequent member to M5board.com, i frequently come across 3rd Gen M5 owners trying to make their high 13 sec car faster and last time i checked, they make about as many mods for M5's as they do for many high end cars.my point is that even people who own high end luxury sport sedans want to go a little faster than you are willing to admit. i can make other examples for you if you'd like, but i'm afraid you'll die of sheer disgust once you find out that even the rich like to blow money on going fast, even if it's a 1/10th of a sec faster. ...and if you don't mind, i'll answer your ignorant comments for you : )

To recap:

This is car with almost no aftermarket. as is the case for any high end luxury car mr. dinkelberg! when is the last time you heard someone having success modifying an E-class Mercedes or LS460 Lexus?

This is a car that Nissan has made difficult to modify (ECU). wow...really??(drool)...as opposed to every other car out there, that with the flip of a switch, you too can modify your ECU

This is a luxury sedan, and not a terribly fast one these days. yeah because every new Yaris and Civic is clipping 12's right off the showroom floor

I HAVE seen a lot of wanna-bees that that waste time and spout nonsense. what a coincedence! I meet alot of the same people (see why by reading above)

Have patience, they will go away of their own accorg. I say the same about people like you, i wonder who will be first?

A G37 will spank it hard and even that is not really fast any more. 13.7 to 13.9 in the G and M respectively in the 1/4 is getting spanked? ....i'll just hold my tongue for this one.....

People seeking a lot of speed with their luxury would be better served in a Caddy, BMW or Benz showroom Ok, now you are really on a roll with the amount of B.S. you just fed the entire Infiniti forum. A caddy for performance? yeah, lemme go shell out $30k for a used semi-fast CTS-V (GM's attempt at luxury performance with half the longevity) or let me go put an Intake and exhaust on my $45k mercedes or brand new BMW..............dam dude, you make as much sense as Sarah Palin at a Barbara Walters interview.

(sitting back as i await your pitiful reply)

Modified by fiveliterbeater at 5:34 PM 5/19/2009
Modified by fiveliterbeater at 5:36 PM 5/19/2009