Garrett Turbo being bought out?

[iLLusive240^]

Garrett Turbo now owned by Honeywell. Quality Control has gone to China & Mexico.

Garrett Turbo is now owned by Honeywell(well they merged 10 years ago but now its a full blown ownership). Chinese K04s are not the only thing we need to worry about anymore. Apparently the GT turbos have been manufactured in Mexico and going to China soon . Read below for the full story

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbtechI work at Garrett Turbos, now called Honeywell Turbo Technologies which there so proud of. When Cliff Garrett Owned Garrett He used to brown bag his lunch everyday and cared for a quality Product. If he knew what Honeywell has done now he would turn over in his grave. Honeywell bought Garrett In 1998 or 1999. After this they opened up a turbo testing lab in shanghai China and quickly moved there turbo overhaul to Mexicali Mexico, quickly after Garrett overhaul went belly-up. So they moved there whole production to Mexicali Mexico, as if that first failure was not a sign.

Garrett Turbos made a quality product for a fair price. A turbo is a precision instrument. Garrett turbos was part of Garrett Air Research (on 190th st. In Torrance ca.) Where they have a huge facility designing turbine engines, and so on. Most of the senior technicians in our main turbo facility (Lomita Blvd Torrance ca) came from our air research. If you’re building jet engines a turbo is not all that difficult. Well Cliff Garrett dies. At that time ALL production of Garrett Turbos was at Lomita Torrance ca. Also all engineering and research was there as well. After we were bought and production was sent to Mexico to save costs. Our production numbers doubled. And cost was cut in half our failure rate tripled. Well who cares Honeywell is making money and lots of it. Turbos are considered Honeywell’s golden egg. They feel that turbos are going to take over big. Which it already has in the diesel market. We make ford diesel turbos, daf, Chevrolet, some Audi, vw, fiat, Perkins. Millions of turbos. And there now all coming from china and Mexico. Well up until lately the company figured if the product was designed in the US and assembled in Mexico we would be ok. Well to further there profit and **** the customer once again....the LAST of what makes turbo American leaves in January 2011. We will close the doors to the Torrance Lab. In Torrance we did all our racing turbos (wrc stuff, Audi racing etc..) then in the garret garage we did the turbos you people buy for your Subaru’s. Actually I take that back. They take turbos that were made on a production line somewhere else in the world, and change a couple of parts on a bench in Torrance (wheels, housing..etc) and send it to you the customer saying it was made in the us.....no it was not it was just repackaged and altered a little. Well as of Jan 2011 all your turbos will be made in Mexico or china or Czech Republic. This is the last Garrett facility in the United States.

We have huge law suits pending due to turbo failures. GM is probably going to leave us.... ford has already sued us. Caterpillar has one of the largest recalls in garret history in the process. Our name is becoming ****. The last few VERY smart guys left in the company are being fired to save costs, but see our profit is already good.....they just want more. Please don’t spend 1500$ on a gt35r. Now that it’s costing Honeywell less to build turbos do you think you will see a smaller bill when you order there product? NO!. They are going to charge you even more for even less. There are countless procedures that are being terminated everyday that made our turbos THE BEST. They keep cutting corner after corner. Did you know that we shave metal off our turbine and compressor housings until they are at the EXTREME minimum needed to contain in the event of failure they are shaving every nickel off the cost of a turbo. Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I won’t dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.

Do not buy these turbos. BorgWarner and mitsu are trying there best to compete with us making a quality product. Honeywell is using its big name to back junky turbos Like Toyota is starting to do. I guarantee in the next 8 months you will see a huge decline in quality. All designing and production is in CHINA AND MEXICO. Honeywell is taking back all there benefits they used to supply us with as employees. That way when they lay us off its as cheap as possible. Instead of saying "Well after we take a hit laying those people off we will make tons" they are just taking back all there benefits so they walk away clean and clear. We used to get a severance package. Which they just took away. One of the head engineers involved in the t3 project. (Designing the first t3) he is still with our company. he was supposed to get 44 weeks of pay if he ever got layed off (30 days and 1 week for every year with the company. 40 years with the company)Due to the new Honeywell rules he gets only 16 weeks pay they stole all that pack after promising it to him for 40 years. My fingers and about to fall off typing all this and I am heated so I don’t care about grammar I’m concerned about you people not supporting a Nazi company. Take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you will get what your money pays for. Have a nice day and don’t forget if you hear the name HTT Honeywell Turbo Technologies Stay away

I copyed this from http://www.audizine.com/forum/...73916 i'm quite dissapointed as i was supposed to order a gt2871r this month...

disscuss...

[TheBlaiant]

WOW! This sucks baseballs. What a shame to see such a great company turn to poop.

[GoTRicEo0]

Just go BW. Garrets were always overpriced in my book.

[Lev_96_240sx]

So what alternatives are we left with? Where is BW made? Where is HKS made? I mean s*** I'd buy a turbo from the Czech republic, they at least can make a quality product but s***, China? Really? I don't want that garbage..

[sx moneypit]

This is just like last year's economic meltdown.Companies are just driven by greed just like Wall street.

[numbnuts240]

while this is more of a gen chat topic, i'll throw in my 2 cents.

i hate when people bash made in china, or made in mexico goods. high quality stuff can and does come out of factories in those 2 countries. the problem is the companies' failures to utilize quality raw materials and strict quality control. a big part of the problem lies with the american workforce. we feel that we are better, more qualified workers when compared to our equally trained counterparts across international borders. because of that, we demand higher wages and benefits, which drives up the final costs of the end products. then we go so far as to demand the cheapest price. to keep retail prices low, something has to suffer, and most often, it's quality. it's capitalism at its finest. welcome to america.
Modified by numbnuts240 at 6:36 AM 2/24/2010

[sx moneypit]

Yes sir!

[JRPS13]

rebuilt turbonetics ftw!!! LOL

[Lev_96_240sx]

while this is more of a gen chat topic, i'll throw in my 2 cents.

i hate when people bash made in china, or made in mexico goods. high quality stuff can and does come out of factories in those 2 countries. the problem is the companies' failures to utilize quality raw materials and strict quality control. a big part of the problem lies with the american workforce. we feel that we are better, more qualified workers when compared to our equally trained counterparts across international borders. because of that, we demand higher wages and benefits, which drives up the final costs of the end products. then we go so far as to demand the cheapest price. to keep retail prices low, something has to suffer, and most often, it's quality. it's capitalism at its finest. welcome to america.

Modified by numbnuts240 at 6:36 AM 2/24/2010

And that would be all good if the prices would reflect the reduction in production cost of the turbos. But it doesn't. They are cutting costs on their side and are not transferring it to the consumer and on top of that they are putting AMERICANS out of jobs. That being said, your point is valid for most other products and it is a cancer that is killing American society and our economy. We want to be paid higher and higher wages, get more benefits, pay low taxes and get all our products for as little money as possible and I understand that this isn't possible with products made in the USA. However, when a company shifts all R&D, production, material sourcing and everything into a much cheaper country and then sells their product for the same price as it did when it was made by higher paid workers in the United States then its price gouging.

It's like Nike shoes made in Vietnam. Production cost for the shoe is $3 and they sell it to us for 120. Now you can't tell me that it cost them 40 times production cost to ship it to the United States. The same goes for these turbos. The average wage for a worker in China working for a foreign company is $4 a DAY, and the wages of a higher paid Chinese worker still don't exceed $10k a year. So then, how why will the turbo still cost $1300-$1500? That's wrong. I have no issue with cheap Chinese products being sold cheaply, but when a trash company destroys the heritage and quality of a well reputed name, moves all production and research overseas and doesn't transfer any of the savings to the consumer, that's not the same thing. Megan is a cheap brand that is sold cheaply. Garrett will be a cheap turbo sold for a lot of money. That's the problem that I and I think everyone who has thought this through will have with it. Even if it is 100% the same quality product as before, the exponentially bigger mark-up is unacceptable.

[numbnuts240]

i agree. it is price gouging. they know that because they have an established name that they can charge whatever the hell they want for it. but can we wholeheartedly blame them? the consumers are the morons who willingly pay out the nose for their crap. then to top it off, we blindingly shut out the little guys who sell products at a cheaper price, that may very well be of equal or higher quality. the american public needs to get off its high horse and humble itself. and these business execs need to be brought down a notch or 50 and either produce something that's actually worth its weight in gold, or charge appropriately. but, like i said, it's capitalism, and there will never be a happy medium. prices on everything goes down, but then so will wages. then we'll be stuck to b****ing about how little we're paid and how we can no longer afford the now cheaper s***. unfortunately that's the vicious cycle of our system and it won't change. personally i think we've doomed ourselves. hopefully it'll happen long after i become worm food.

[Lev_96_240sx]

OK, one other thing. Before this gets completely out of hand (and I know I may have over-reacted), is there any truth to this? Does anyone have actual fact that they are shutting down the Torrence Lab? I mean if it is true than my next turbo will not be a 2871 like I've been planning to get.

[Lev_96_240sx]

I have a feeling that we have all been duped by some internet troll. Even though they might be moving overseas at some point, it wasn't Honeywell that bought Garrett, Garrett merged with Honeywell. http://en.wakopedia.org/wiki/G...rgers Granted it's wakopedia but still they have valid sources cited.

"To avoid a hostile takeover of Garrett's assets by Curtiss-Wright following Cliff Garrett's death in 1963, Garrett Corporation merged with Signal Oil and Gas Company in 1964.[21] In 1968, the combined company adopted The Signal Companies as its corporate name.[22] In 1985, Signal merged with Allied Corp., becoming Allied-Signal. AlliedSignal merged with Honeywell in 1999.[23]

Part of the original Garrett AiResearch became known as the Garrett Turbine Engine Company from 1979, and became the Garrett Engine Division of AlliedSignal in 1985. In 1994, AlliedSignal acquired the Lycoming Turbine Engine Division of Textron, merging it with Garrett Engine to become the AlliedSignal Engines Division of AlliedSignal Aerospace Company.[24] The company acquired Honeywell Aerospace in 1999. Although AlliedSignal was much larger than Honeywell, it was decided to adopt the Honeywell name because of its greater public recognition.

The Garrett Aviation Division ("Garrett Aviation"),[25] which mainly services aircraft, was sold to General Electric in 1997 and later renamed Landmark Aviation after a 2004 merger. It became StandardAero[26] after a further merger in 2007 and it was owned by Dubai Aerospace Enterprise,[27] but subsequently purchased by another owner."

[dre1507]

Truth or not the lesson here is simple. When a company gets so big headed that it can charge whatever it feels like for its products, we the consumers are most likely to blame. All because we would rather be shafted by them just to say we paid top dollar for something that probably costs them nothing significant to make. We shut the door on new companies, who sells the same thing, usually cheaper, give or take a few quality points, because somebody says their product is dodo, even though we and the slanderer have never tried the product for ourselves. Yes, we have to fish out the good new companies from amongst the crappy ones, but majority of those few good companies still get a bad rep from people who have never purchased their product or even seen it up close. Therefore propelling the big-name companies to shaft the consumers even harder. I've worked at McDonald's for a year now, and i still laugh when i see people buying it, cause i know how hard they are being ripped off. It costs McDonald's $0.07 for one single chicken nugget (if it really is chicken). A ten-piece costs them $0.70 not factoring in what the box costs them (does that really need to be factored in?), but you the consumer will pay around $4.00+ for that same ten-piece. What you're really paying for is the name on the box. So next time if you go to McDonald's, maybe if you buy the food and tell them you don't want the box or wrapper, maybe you can get them to cut the price some. Back to the topic. Stop paying for a name. Pay for the quality you deserve.

[iLLusive240^]

what would be a good substitute for my gt2871r that i was going to buy i was trying to keep the stock mani on my sr and do this as cheaply as possible..

[Lev_96_240sx]

Borg Warner S250 and S252 are fairly good substitutes for a GT2871. They are rated for 400 and 450hp respectively and both cost 1187.50, which is pretty much identical to the cost of a 2871. You would have to probably change your manifold though since the BW turbos use a T3 flange.

[Aoshi1]

Man, this is sad. My whole family (including me at one point) worked for Garret. started with my grandpa, then my dad, who was there when they were bought by Allied Signal. My two brothers joined in, and I was there after they were bought by Honeywell.

It was a long process, but back in the day you could get "at-cost" pricing on the turbos, used to order them all the time for friends and such. But, like everything else, Honeywell is whoring the company out, especially to Mexico. I dunno why, I mean, they feel it saves them money, but you would not believe what they are shelling out to fix the bad products and fabrications that are coming out of the offshore plants. It is ridiculous.

My family is all on the APU aerospace side of things, but it's looking grim. Honeywell lays off more people yearly than any other company I know of, I mean by the thousands. Everyone is having to take furloughs, paycuts, moved to salary and what not.

I am hoping the mighty Garret Turbo isn't fazing out, but it sure seems like it. I can see the ebay deal now..."Pre-Mexican made Garret Turbo" lol

[Lev_96_240sx]

You do know that Cliff Garrett died in 1963 and the company has been Allied-Signal then of course. And since you have such a close connection to the company you must also know that Allied-Signal merged with Honeywell in 1999, which was more Allied-Signal buying Honeywell than anything else. Honeywell was a better known name so the stuck with it for business purposes. Allied Signal was roughly twice the size of Honeywell in 1999, so Honeywell buying Garrett is total BS, it was the other way around.

Want evidence? How about the New York Times:http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06...ted=1

[Aoshi1]

There is news, reports, ads, and then there is working there. Say what you want, think what you want. Sure, Honeywell IS a bigger name, and they slapped it all over the place. But when the plumbing gets changed all the way down to the lowest level, you begin to wonder. Coupled with yearly mass lay-offs, endless job swapping and moves, everything starts to get watered down. Before Honeywell was painted on our plant, my brothers used to say there would be huge banners displaying the quotas met for quality and sales. After the name was painted on, things like that came right down. No more monthly meetings about quality control, goals and standards met...Everything changed to "punch your time card, work, and gtfo".

I started out as a "dishwasher", cleaning aersospace parts. Through my tenure, the quality control on the thoroughness of that cleaning became more and more lax. Used to be we would run the Armax machine to clean select parts off with grit and silica sand. Towards the end, it was "get what you can off with your hands and the steel wool" and maybe a quick dip in okite (if it wasn't made of aluminum). I left there as a mechaninc, turning wrenches on APU's. The running joke in the shop was who could build the dirtiest engine... Certain corners can be cut, others shouldn't. Ask ANYONE who works there now, and they will tell you...it's around 50% of what it used to be across the board. Working conditions, pay, quality, sales.

I don't care about your links, I was there for 5 years. Call me narrow minded, but I look at this all maybe a tad more biased than you do.

[Lev_96_240sx]

I have no problem with your opinions and points if they are valid. Your previous post suggested you might be the same caliber as the person the OP quoted. You have to get the facts in the right order for people to take you seriously. I just so happened to have researched the merger for a good bit of time today so I was thrown off by you saying that Honeywell bought Garrett. Garrett was a sub-brand of Allied-Signal, a company that had a revenue of $15.4 billion while Honeywell only had a revenue of 8.4. So it was a mutual merger by both companies, Allied-Signal screwed it's own employees as much as Honeywell did.

[Aoshi1]

If it looks like a duck...and all that.

I see what you are saying, and can apprecaite it. There are, though, still folks walking the shops at Honeywell, who've been there for 20 plus years, saying the same thing about Honeywell buying out Allied. I guess it depends on where you are. We never got talked to or informed about the merger, which probably killed the whole situation, so we were left to formulate our own reasons.

I guess I just heard more of that, than reading/hearing the cold hard facts. Like I said, I was biased, lol.

I can see the light now though, and thank you.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Just because one company buys another, doesn't mean that everything stays the same in either company. Often times in "Mergers", new management comes in, and essentially you have an entirely new company. There are of course exceptions (think Bosch), but its pretty common.

Even if they didn't merge with honeywell, there is still a strong possibility all the stuff Lev_96 mentioned would be happening. American companies have changed pretty drastically in the past 15 years. Some for the better, and some worse.

Anyway, I work at Borgwarner, but my plant doesn't make turbos. Our passenger car turbos are made in Europe (the turbo HQ is in Germany), commercial vehicle turbos made in the UK, Brazil, and North Carolina. Passenger car turbos made in Germany and Hungary. A facility in Ningbo, China makes turbos for both passenger cars and commercial vehicles... but I think that is just for the domestic China market. From what I understand, Turbos is our biggest business right now. We are grabbing up tons of market share, and they are a pretty high profit item.

I'm looking at getting a BW turbo when mine finally goes (which I'm confidant it will).

Some websites for you guys:http://www.turbodriven.com/http://www.t ... wauto.com/

[mattblancarte]

Thanks for the post. Will have to look into this further.

[Lev_96_240sx]

Even if I am right, if Aoshi truly is a former Garrett employee than his views from inside the company are equally important. I'm a business major so I tend to look at the corporate side of things and how they work on that level but seeing the perspective from outside upper management is just as important if not even more so. Reading that NY Times article, the thing that caught my attention the most was that the CEO's of the two companies were meeting secretly for months before the merger and that job cuts of 4500 were a part of the deal. It makes sense then, that nobody on the factory floor knew what the hell was going on, heck probably most upper management didn't know what was going on.

Now as far as what the original quote of this topic claims, I'm not sure there is any truth to that. Could it happen? Sure. But the OP gives absolutely no proof of anything just makes claims without backing them up.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Even if I am right, if Aoshi truly is a former Garrett employee than his views from inside the company are equally important.

Whoops! I got you 2 guys confused. I meant to put his username in my post, not yours.

[Aoshi1]

Even if I am right, if Aoshi truly is a former Garrett employee than his views from inside the company are equally important.

Lol, I know I still have it, but when I find my old badge, I will post it up. No photoshop, I promise. (those things cost like $80 if you lose it, so yeah, I kept it)