Garrett T3/to4e 50 Trim W/ .63 A/r

[Redline240]

I've been doin lots and lots of reading and i'm pretty sure this is the turbo i'm goin to go with...the 50 trim seems to be the turbo of choice for the KA...

Now i only plan to run 8-10psi for the next year or so, but i do plan to upgrade in the future...so what i'm wondering is what kinda numbers can i expect to get from this turbo once i upgrade the internals, etc and start raising the boost? 350hp? 400hp? More? How much psi will it push? 20 psi? 25 psi?

Redline

[C-Kwik]

20-25 psi on a stock compression KA may be hard to achive on pump gas. Lower compression may allow you to do so. In any case, this isn't really an easy to answer question as there is no absolute answer. There are many factors to consider. There are plenty of books out there that can answer the general types of questions. Or perhaps search through ouot these forums. I'm not sure anyone here wants to write a books worth of information to cover all the bases. If you really want to have a good answer, be more specific about the entire set-up.

[canadians14]

that's the turbo i plan on using for my 240... from what i've read on these forums i wouldnt go beyond 15 psi with stock internals ... but i plan on using a JWT ECU which runs nice and rich ... but you still have to be careful. I plotted out points on the efficiency island of that turbo and from anywhere between 10 and 15 psi the points land for the most part in the upper two islands of efficiency which is perfect. IMO its a pretty safe choice

[canadians14]

btw redline where in canada are you located if you dont mind me asking

[02_silver_wagon]

Now i only plan to run 8-10psi for the next year or so, but i do plan to upgrade in the future

I think the upgrade he spoke of would be engine internals.

Go to the Precision Turbo website and look at the max hp for the sc50 which is a 50 trim t3/t04e, it is 450hp. So I would say the max whp on a 50 trim would be 400whp. Looking at the compressor maps it looks like the 50 trim would still be fairly efficent at 30psi. Hope this helps.

[fiznat]

same turbo I plan on using, and my block is getting fully built for 15+ psi

[deezlins]

hows the response on the t3/to4e 50 trim .63 a/r?

[C-Kwik]

I think the upgrade he spoke of would be engine internals.

Go to the Precision Turbo website and look at the max hp for the sc50 which is a 50 trim t3/t04e, it is 450hp. So I would say the max whp on a 50 trim would be 400whp. Looking at the compressor maps it looks like the 50 trim would still be fairly efficent at 30psi. Hope this helps.

The max HP is debatable. While 450 HP is not a bad estimate, another rule of thumb is to multiply the airflow in lbs/minute by 10. A T04E-50 is rated at 47 lbs per minute. Also keep in mind that the peak flow rate usually does not occur at peak boost. The T04E-50's peak flow occurs at a pressure ratio of about 2.6, or 1.6 BAR. This of course doesn't tell the whole story either. The turbine flow, presence of, efficiency and pressure drop of an intercooler can affect this as can maniold design, compression, etc, etc, etc. Also considering that we do know of at least 1 15 psi KA putting out 350 at the wheels, at 15 psi, the KA will probably be pumping in about 32 lbs/min of air. By my rule of thumb, that's only 320 at the crank. There is no easy science to this. And it's good to think about this. But my point is that results vary based on conditions.

[02_silver_wagon]

hows the response on the t3/to4e 50 trim .63 a/r?

I would say a 50 trim .63 a/r stage 3 wheel would hit full boost by 3600-3500rpm. 3rd gear told me he hits full boost by 3700rpm with ross pistons (i'm assuming 8.5cr) and a stage 5 wheel. Raising compression to 9.0 or stock would lower those also.

And C-Kwik very good points.

[Redline240]

Thanks guys for all the responses! I realize that max hp isn't a easy question to answer...but eventually i'd like to upgrade and have a fully built engine and i just wanna know that this turbo is up to the challenge of 400+hp if and when i want it...i wouldn't run over 10psi on stock internals, but once things are beefed i wanna go big and if i don't have to upgrade my turbo then there's more money to go elsewhere....As long as i'm in the mid to low 13's with stock internals i'll be happy...

Cheapturbo has it for $550, and $780 with a Tial 38mm which i'll probaly get too since they're not goin for much less than the $230 it'll be new...

Oh and canadians14, i'm in Newfoundland...where are you?

Redline

[fiznat]

Also considering that we do know of at least 1 15 psi KA putting out 350 at the wheels, at 15 psi, the KA will probably be pumping in about 32 lbs/min of air. By my rule of thumb, that's only 320 at the crank. There is no easy science to this. And it's good to think about this. But my point is that results vary based on conditions.

Also there is pornflake's KA-T, supposedly getting 410hp at only 17psi. Thats with the 8.5:1 compression as well. I donno, there really doesnt seem to be any real way to predict how well you're going to do at the dyno. It seems to be a factor of so many different elements that you cant even judge a ballpark figure anymore. I mean, on the other side of the spectrum is kattr getting only 310hp @ 17psi... how do you reconcile a 100hp difference in two cars with similar builds??

[aleph1]

Also there is pornflake's KA-T, supposedly getting 410hp at only 17psi. Thats with the 8.5:1 compression as well. I donno, there really doesnt seem to be any real way to predict how well you're going to do at the dyno. It seems to be a factor of so many different elements that you cant even judge a ballpark figure anymore. I mean, on the other side of the spectrum is kattr getting only 310hp @ 17psi... how do you reconcile a 100hp difference in two cars with similar builds??

Well pornflakes runs a TEC3 system and has had much dyno time.

[fiznat]

true enough, but one HUNDRED horses? klattr's AFR cant be that bad...

[aleph1]

After reading his specs from the ebay auction, its clear to me that his setup is superior to klattrs (no offence klattr). I believe its just about as efficient, in all the right places (short of open WG dump), as you can possibly get.

After reviewing klattrs AFR, he is running a lil on the rich side, most of the power band is arouns 10-11. There is a leaner part at near 4Krpms prolly at 12-12.5, which i believe is optimal and still safe. I hope to be around 12 on avg. On the other hand, pornflakes AFR is VERY smooth at hovers between, 12 and 13 the whole band. http://attila.sdsu.edu/~mmikse/ka24det_dyno.jpgLook at the power curve...i dont know if Ive ever seen something so beautiful *wipes tears from eyes* =P

On a side note: Whats with these high powered KATs on ebay? I believe this is DavEEEs KAT? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...82411

[Redline240]

Pornflake also used race gas to get his numbers, if i'm not mistaken that would make a slight difference at 17psi and 400hp...that coupled with over 7 hours of dyno tuning with a complete stand alone makes a big difference...stock head though, thats cool, and a log manifold!

Redline

[WDRacing]

Racegas equals more timing which always makes more power...

[Pornflakes]

The magic is in the TEC3 stand alone really. Its accuracy, along with more agressive AFR and specially timing make all the difference. At 17.5 PSI I was running around 25 degrees of timing (try that with a re-programmed or stock ECU)! This was tuned with 103 octane unleaded gas, but the complete timing map was left intact for 91 octane pump gas as well (I just limited the boost solenoid to 12 PSI instead of 17.5 PSI).

Re-programmed and factory stock ECUs have way too conservative timing, probably because it's too risky since they don't have the timing accuracy to handle agressive timing setups.