G50 vs. 740iL vs. 540 vs. M45s

[Peterofdevon]

Well, I had the bug to do a little playing around yesterday and I went and drove a 2001 740iL then a 2001 540i. I've been eyeing the prior gen 740/750 for awhile. I see lots of them lowered and in mint babied condition--like we do with our Qs. So I had to see with the fuss was about.

The jet Black 740iL had 50K on it. Asking price $25K. First off. Its very busy in the cockpit with lots of louvers and sightlines with gaget access. Narrow seating and less leg space vs. our beloved older Qs with more knee room (never mind comparing our back seats to anything). We may not have the bolster support the 740s have but we sure have our comfort. The doors open and shut like a vault-ours are a little tinny in comparison. The windscreen seems more narrow than ours and the hood a little longer.

On start up the big ol' Bimmer ran smooth as a swiss watch, more smooth than my 2 Qs. Pulling out of the lot I noticed immediately that the steering wheel has a disconnected feel with the road and the front of the car lumbared forward with an over weighty feel about it. Cornering was similar to ours--heavy but sure footed. Going to highway speed the power rush was similar but the overall "feel" was one of effort. Our Qs seem to be so lightfooted and quick in the hands compared to the more lumbaring 740. Braking was worlds apart...the Bimmer blew away the Q here--no contest--end of story. The big Bimmer brakes instantly grabbed the car with a balanced firmness that shocked me. Goshdarn was this great! As I cruised down the highway I missed the Q though, the openess of the cockpit, the great road feel in the hands, the responsive steering. The Bimmer felt large, like your fathers car. It does not have that old glove fitting feel of the Q.

I pulled back into the lot and I'll never again think of or ponder the prior gen 740---our Qs are far different and better beasts---much lighter and sportier.

Now on to the 540I...

I wont labor too long here. Its a different class car than the Q. Overall I'll take the 540i for any drive under 100 miles--the Q can't be beat as a longer distance ride.

The M45, as good as I thought this car was its not the the same league as the prior gen 540. I drove the M45S twice and as soon as I pulled out in the 540 I knew I was in heaven. Now it was a little apples to oranges since the 540 was a 6 speed but there was no denying the superior road feel of the BMW. Its was faultless. The M45 has a little bobbiness in the front end--its like a set of train wheels one size too big for the tracks. The 540 was PERFECT---OMG I never drove anything this good. It was a better driver than my 1996 911. Far smoother and far more buttery. The M45 was as good or a bit better as a driver than the 911 but the 540 was my-oh-my so much better feeling. I fell in love with it. No Infinity has moved me this way.

The 540i's braking was instant and smooth--tons of confidence. I zipped the car to 120 and braked back to 60 like a frigging slot car. Damn, so this is what the fuss is about. I urge everyone here to take one of these out for a spin. My gosh, they can be had for $20 to $25K (1999s to 2002s). I see 03 M45s going for $22K.

Has anyone else here driven one? I used to lust over a 06 M45S---forget that-save the $25K and get a F A R better ride.

Please no hate mail over this

Peter of the twoQs


Modified by Peterofdevon at 6:54 AM 9/22/2006

[CrimsonQ]

Does the 540 have V-8 and a 6 speed?

That sounds like a damn good time

[M3Racer]

Does the 540 have V-8 and a 6 speed?

Yup. 97-98's can be had for as low as $10k-$12k in nice condition.

I have a dream to own a Euro version E38 with a manual transmission. Maintenance is a killer though.

[Peterofdevon]

I wonder what goes wrong on these things. Ours Qs suffer from:transmissionschain guidesMAS issuesinjectorsvalve cover gasketsbrake rotors

None of them insignifigant $ wise. I pour money into mine little boys. of the 4 G50s I've owned, only one needed regular things like brakes, tires and belts. The others has "issues." So I guess you picks your poisons.

After that 540I test drive I'd much rather dump money into that than pay $50K plus for the M45S. At least that's todays thinking.... Now about that mid 90s ZR-1 for $24K.

Peter

[Jesda]

The E38 7-series is the greatest automobile that I have -ever- experienced. I got to enjoy a long-wheelbase 12-cylinder example for quite a few hours one afternoon/evening.

It felt like I was piloting a smooth electric train, with the ability to stop and go instantly.

Oh yeah, the big 750iL gets a real-world 23mpg at 80mph.

Damn it, now I want one again.

[qship96]

jesda,that 7 series may be fine to drive,but a ***** to own long term cost/reliability wise.

[ScottJackson]

I don't have an E39 540i, but do have the one just prior to it, the E34. Mine has an automatic which really kills the sporty feel of the car. I SOOOO wish I'd got a 6 speed and converted it when it had the bad transmission. The doors are like a vault. It feels a bit heavy and the steering is unfortunately somewhat disconnected. Both E34 and E39 540s have a steering box and lots of linkage. The Q is rack and pinion so that's one big plus for the Q. The BMW steering can be tight though with a low mileage or new steering box and all new steering linkage. The 540 is more solid built than the Q. It just has a much more "meaty" feel. The Q feels more like it was stamped out of thin sheet metal and painted compared to the bmw that has lots of bolts and tubular braces that seem more thought out. The E34 540i had some issues. The most well known was the nikasil cylinder lining issue. When the cars first came out in the US, the gas had a lot more sulfur in it than now or in europe at the time. As a result, the cylinders would erode and compression would disappear. BMW would replace the motors with alusil cylinder engines if there was an issue with the nikasil motor. Mine has the alusil block so I'm happy about that. Spark plugs and fuel injectors are FAR easier to replace on the 540 than the Q. Parts for the Q are substantially less expensive then for the 540i. For example, that steering box is 12 hours of labor to replace and the box itself is $1400. I couldn't imagine the cost of having regular maint. done at a dealer. Also, the auto transmissions in the 540 are incredibly strong and will hold a LOT of horsepower. However, they have no dipstick as they have "lifetime" synthetic fluid. This is kind of a joke in the BMW forums as it will last exactly as long as the transmission does, to the very second it fails. There aren't any troublesome little pieces that commonly break with the 540i. The light control module sometimes needs re-soldiered and the heater control valve usually needs replaced (along with radiator) after about 10 years. The only other common issue with them is the upper control arms (also called thrust arms) tend to get sloppy with age and this causes a lot of shimmy and vibration around 50mph. The biggest downfall in my opinion is that a supercharger kit for the 540i is $6000. If I were to buy a 540i again, it'd be an E39 with 6 speed and just get the loan to cover the cost of adding the ESS supercharger kit. In mine, I replaced the 2.81 open diff with a 3.91 LSD from an M5. It helped acceleration but I still wish the car had more power. It also put a hurt on fuel mileage, as expected.

[BlueC]

Price and class wise, the 540 would be more accurate of a comparison to the Q45.

The 740iL is in a much different class considering the build and price. If I could have found a 540iL 6 speed with lower miles, the Q45 would never have been in my possesion.

[ScottJackson]

540iL? I didn't know they made an "L" version of the 5 series. I agree that they're a fair comparison, the 540i and the Q45 (at least the G50). The leg room is about the same in the back seat of both, the front is a bit tighter in the 540i, and the trunk space is about the same in both. I think the Q is a bit longer overall and not as tall as the 5 series. Also, the E39 is bigger than the E34, but the E39 540i has a 4.4L and the E34 had a 4.0L (but both rated at same hp, the 4.4 has more torque which is needed with the heavier E39).

[needakidneytx]

According to Consumer reports 5 series v-8 is 60% less reliable than an average car in it's class, while m45 is 70% more reliable. Only cars more unreliable are Mercedes Benz e and s class and the ultimate lemon-the Jaguar S-type. I have driven 540 and while it drives nicely I wouldn't feel secure driving my family around in such an unreliable car,-Jeff

[M3Racer]

There was no 540iL. The "L' was used to designate a longer version, as Jesda mentioned. It gave a little more room in the back seat, and wasn't a terrible detriment to performance.

[ScottJackson]

I wonder what is meant by unreliable. Is that number of times the car was brought to the dealer (complaints)? You know a buyer of a Dodge Neon is much more likely to turn up the radio if the car makes a little noise when compared to someone who just bought a new BMW. There's lots of little gizmos and such on the newer BMWs (more features, more chances something won't work correctly or as expected) but I don't know of any real issues that would leave you stranded somewhere. BMW certainly doesn't make perfect cars. I don't know who does if there is such a thing. I however would have no problem driving a decently maintained BMW of any model across the country (especially a McLaren F1, which I am calling a BMW because of its bimmer motor).

[Jesda]

I greatly miss my E34. Those three weeks of ownership had quite an impact on me.

But the $700+ profit mitigated the loss.

[sijoko]

I always liked BMWs. My affections, however, disappeared when the Bangle Butt showed up on the scene.

I had an old BMW 520 when I was an E-2 private stationed in Germany from 90-92. I bought the car for $1800 and drove it all over the place. I had some great times in that car, especially on the Autobahn. There is something about the way a BMW drives that you will not find in other cars.

It would be nice to tool around in an E39 M5 for a while and then sell it before stuff started breaking on it. I also daydream about getting an M3 with a bad engine and swapping in a LS2.

Mmmm........lighter engine w/ more power. Wonder what that would be like?

But the G50 Q45 will always be first in my eyes, unless Nissan brings out a worthy successor to it.

[FarFetched]

Does the 540 have V-8 and a 6 speed?

That sounds like a damn good time

If you try it you will love it!4.4L and 6 speed here we come to get ya!

[FarFetched]

The E38 7-series is the greatest automobile that I have -ever- experienced. I got to enjoy a long-wheelbase 12-cylinder example for quite a few hours one afternoon/evening.

It felt like I was piloting a smooth electric train, with the ability to stop and go instantly.

Oh yeah, the big 750iL gets a real-world 23mpg at 80mph.

Damn it, now I want one again.

E34 M5 was built to dominate Autobahn period! E34 FOREVA! If I could afford the repair cost, I would own one!

Modified by FarFetched at 11:08 PM 9/17/2006
Modified by FarFetched at 11:10 PM 9/17/2006

[Jesda]

The most important thing about the 90-96 Q45, as well as the 90-96 300ZX, is that when they arrived, they were the absolute best that Nissan could do. Instead of compromising and bean counting, Nissan took engineering and design risks that paid off tremendously and earned them a lifetime of respect. Even when they aimed for the middle, with cars like the 89-94 Maxima, they still made the best.

Those were great times at Nissan, before they started churning out French-looking craptraps like the new Sentra. With a few exceptions, I hate new Nissans. Someone ate Mr K's soul.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The E38 7-series is the greatest automobile that I have -ever- experienced. I got to enjoy a long-wheelbase 12-cylinder example for quite a few hours one afternoon/evening.

It felt like I was piloting a smooth electric train, with the ability to stop and go instantly.

Oh yeah, the big 750iL gets a real-world 23mpg at 80mph.

Damn it, now I want one again.

As usual, I completely agree (though I've never had the pleasure of driving one).

The 750il combines everything I love about the Q and takes some of those things a step further. It's got the same simple, clean, impossible to dislike styling, the same great combination of luxury and sportiness, and an undeniable street presence. One of my neighbors recently got a used E38 740i...I can't get over how incredibly beautiful that car is.

[Peterofdevon]

As usual, I completely agree (though I've never had the pleasure of driving one).

The 750il combines everything I love about the Q and takes some of those things a step further. It's got the same simple, clean, impossible to dislike styling, the same great combination of luxury and sportiness, and an undeniable street presence. One of my neighbors recently got a used E38 740i...I can't get over how incredibly beautiful that car is.

Well, driving my 94Q vs. the 2001 740iL was overall no contest. The Q is a better ride. The Bimmer sure looks cool, brakes better and is more solid and vaultlike. Inside though, it feels old and used. The Q has a timeless interior and the Q has a great rear end, better than my GF

Peter

[M3Racer]

I wonder what is meant by unreliable. Is that number of times the car was brought to the dealer (complaints)? You know a buyer of a Dodge Neon is much more likely to turn up the radio if the car makes a little noise when compared to someone who just bought a new BMW. There's lots of little gizmos and such on the newer BMWs (more features, more chances something won't work correctly or as expected) but I don't know of any real issues that would leave you stranded somewhere. BMW certainly doesn't make perfect cars. I don't know who does if there is such a thing. I however would have no problem driving a decently maintained BMW of any model across the country (especially a McLaren F1, which I am calling a BMW because of its bimmer motor).

Cooling system is a big issue for many models across the line. The average operationg costs for a 7-series tend to be around $100/month. BMW's aren't as terrible as they're made out to be, but it's no myth.

[Q_SHIP]

If you like the 540I, I encourage you to drive a 99-01 740IL. Simply amazing cars and very tight feeling for the size car it is. Also, it has the 4.4 V8 with the 540I so the performance is very impressive as well. 740IL is my choice hands down.

[Peterofdevon]

If you like the 540I, I encourage you to drive a 99-01 740IL. Simply amazing cars and very tight feeling for the size car it is. Also, it has the 4.4 V8 with the 540I so the performance is very impressive as well. 740IL is my choice hands down.

I drove a 2001 740IL and the Q was a far better all round grand cruiser. Sorry but the big bimmer felt heavy in the front, not as lightfooted or sporty as the Q. Plus the road feel through the Qs steering wheel was far superior. The 540I smoked the 740IL in highway performance and distroyed it on the back roads. Its a rocket.

Peter

[elwesso]

So, you found that the 540 wasnt as good of a long distance cruiser as the Q45 was???? Thats interesting, id be interested to hear why you think that!

The 740 has an amazingly sexy body, but i still prefer the E39 6 speeds, but the 540 + 6 speed are hard to find and alot more expensive compared to the regular ones even with manual trans!

[Jesda]

I agree on the steering. The G50's steering feel is excellent, but when looking for a distance cruiser, that doesnt really matter so much.

Heck, a 98+ Town Car would theoretically be a superior long-distance runner to the Q. Its quieter, longer, comfier, more fuel-efficient, and roomier -- same for the E38.

[Falkdesigns]

Gotta disagree on the Town Car Jesda. I drove one back from Vegas once, and it was Ok, but the seats suck compared to my Y33. Having done that trip in both the Town Car and my Q, I'll take my Y33 over the Town Car. I love the prior term 7 series though, much nicer than the current model, it's got a real presence to it. Same reason I love the Y33, it's got very classic, big body sedan lines.

[Peterofdevon]

So, you found that the 540 wasnt as good of a long distance cruiser as the Q45 was???? Thats interesting, id be interested to hear why you think that!

The 740 has an amazingly sexy body, but i still prefer the E39 6 speeds, but the 540 + 6 speed are hard to find and alot more expensive compared to the regular ones even with manual trans!

Wes, the thing about the Q on the highway and easy back roads is: poise and its effortless. It does not engage or absorb you like the 540i 6 speed but the Q does something different--it vanishes--you forget you're driving a car.

When you're in the 540i you are T H E R E with the car. But, unlike a Porsche it does not rattle and jar you. I was in a 2003 911 Cab this morning and yes, its a great car but there is a looseness to it at slow speeds--you have to drive it hard to experience it. The 540 shows it stuff at far lower speeds. I am shocked as well by how smooth the 540 is.

So, the Q for one mood and the 540 for another.

Life in America.

Peter

[elwesso]

peter you need to come out here and drive my Q and tell me what you think... i bet itd kick a 540s ***

[Peterofdevon]

peter you need to come out here and drive my Q and tell me what you think... i bet itd kick a 540s ***

Wes, I would love to drive your car and I'm sure it hugs the road like a French Whore!!! But, Than darn Bimmer is like silk...fast silk...great balance in corners. I bought it today!!!!

Just got back from a night fast drive on the twisties (must watch out for deer here in PA). G' D A M N is it smooth! Must now install the M-5 sway bars. Its knocking on the 911 performance door. No wonder guys lust over that new M5. I'll say this, this 5 year old 540I sport suspension six speed (48K miles) is way better in every parameter then the 06 M45S I drove (two times). Damit, I went out to drive that 740iL for grins and now look what happened.

Peter's in love

[Jesda]

I agree on the 540 being silk. It really is a totally involving driving experience.

The Q, however, evokes just as many emotions, different ones. The Q is like a mad muscle car while the 540 is like an express train. Different kinds of goodness. Different kinds of fun.

I actually interpret the two cars differently than Peter. With the 540, I think you're soaked into the whole experience, while with the Q, you're riding a bull.

[BadQ45t]

I drove a 97' automatic 540 in 2000 when I was car shopping. I had not ever driven a 540 so I was completely ready to be amazed. I frankly wasn't, just didn't do that much for me. Felt very plain on the inside.

Now the M5 that I test drove with my buddy, that made me OMG. Overall I came away feeling that it was very over-rated.

BTW, my friend had 97' 540 sport which i took over to Dinan and poured another 5 grand or so into toys. Right before I bought my Y33 in 2000 he was selling it, with about 50k on the odo. I called him to ask how much he wanted for it and he said "I'm not going to sell it to you, this is going to be a repair nighmare and I don't want to saddle you with it" as he'd done lots of warranty work and already had about 3k worth of repairs after the warranty ran out.