I'm looking to add a subwoofer system for my new G and I'm looking at Soundstream for the amp. Anyone have any experience with their amps? For the speakers, I'm looking to go with JL Audio. 10W6v2 X 2 with custom enclosures.

Thoughts?

One of the companies that was bad a** in the early 90's and went down hill from there. They may have gotten better over the last few years though. Which amp are you looking at? Those speakers do like a lot of power.

I was looking at the D-Tower amps...DTR 1700 or the 2200.

http://www.soundstream.com/Aud...r.htm

Interesting design. the signal to noise looks a little dirty, and they only give that spec at 4ohms. Keep in mind that the 10w6's only come in dual 4ohm coils, so you'll have to run a 4ohm or 1 ohm load on the amp. My overall thoughts are that the price is nice, but something else might suit you better.

I'm open to anything...I had MTX 7801 in my G35 and it was plenty loud with 2 10" MTX 7500 subs...

What do you recommend?

What's your budget?

Around $800...but I have found this website where you can get gear much cheaper than MSRP.

http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/

Went through and picked out a few brands that I have worked with before and liked. These honestly should all sound about the same. There's also a few decent offerings from alpine if your willing to run an amp per sub, which can look pretty good.

Bostonhttp://www.dealercostcaraudio.....aspx

JLhttp://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/10001v2.aspx

Diamondhttp://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/D61000.2.aspx

MB Quarthttp://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/PAB1200.1D.aspx

I have pushed a 1000 watt RMS mono-block on a single 10W6v2 before, but you have to have a real good ear for distortion. Because at that much power, you are exceeding the thermal handling of the sub. So if you distort it, you have a much better chance of burning up the voice coil. If you insist on running that much power, I would highly recommend setting the gain(s) with an oscilloscope. Shoot me an email if you need some pricing. I may be a little higher priced, but I am an authorized dealer on everything I sell. None of those internet sites can the same.

Toby,

So maybe I need to educate myself a bit...I plan on running 2 10W6v2's. Now I know they have dual voice coils so my load on the amp can change. My question is, if I have a 2k RMS watt amp, how does the load change per speaker? All amps increase the current if the resistance is lower...that I understand. But what does each speaker "see"?

If I have 2K watts at 1ohm, is that 2k per speaker, or is it 1k per speaker for a total of 2k??

What is the safest RMS watt level for the 10W6v2? With the DVC, I can increase the ohm load to lower the power.

Mark, I need to drive the amp with high level inputs...the JL doesn't do that (from what I've read). Plus, I need the amp to turn on when signal is sensed...no remote turn-on from the deck. My MTX 7801 did this...

You can wire (2) 10W6's to a 1-ohm load. So an amplifier that can do 2,000 watts @ 1-ohm, will obviously deliver 1,000 watts to each sub. Also for reference, an amplifier doesn't just output power on it's own. The load you present it will pull a particular amount of power from it.... just like an alternator. An alternator does not simply output amperage, it is drawn from it.

The JL Audio mono-blocks have signal sensing turn-on, but no high level inputs.... so you would simply use a high/low converter. You could use a high/low converter that has a signal sensing turn-on, but in my experience, they suck for that purpose.

Edit: I will reply to your email this evening!

Great info, thanks for the reply! So a 1700 RMS watt amp would be better for the 10W6s...

I just have to figure out what I want the trunk to look like (amp placement)

I'm liking this amp... Thoughts on Kicker?

http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

And what about "capcells"? http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

joe603 wrote:Great info, thanks for the reply! So a 1700 RMS watt amp would be better for the 10W6s...

I just have to figure out what I want the trunk to look like (amp placement)

Actually, 1200-1500 would be perfect. Anymore than that and you are just wasting power.

joe603 wrote:I'm liking this amp... Thoughts on Kicker?

http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

And what about "capcells"? http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

That amplifier won't work very well. Since it is not 1-ohm stable, you would have to run it at 4-ohm.... which would only yield you a total of 750 watts. You need an amplifier that outputs max RMS power at either 1-ohm or 4-ohm. Alpine PDX and JL Audio Slash or HD series will actually output the same power at 2-ohm or 4-ohm and are fully regulated.

And I'm not sure what the hell that capcell thing is!?! If you are going to run over a thousand watts RMS, then you will want at least 3-5 farads of capacitance. If you only have 1-2 farad then you really won't notice much difference.

I thought the rule was 1F per 1000 watts? I'm not 100% sure what the capcell thing is either...I was hoping someone knew. It sounds like a cap and battery in one box. Not sure if I want that in my system.

No one's mentioned upgrading the alternator. What's the capacity of the stock G35 alternator?

Also, ~850w per 10" that's not a w7? Why so much?

The amp is rated at 150amps.

I'll be running 2 10W6's...just don't want them to be underpowered. I don't want them to burn up...but then again, I don't blast the stereo all the time.

I'm looking at the MTX 1500 and JL 1000/1...the MTX will be easier to integrate with its high level input.

joe603 wrote:I thought the rule was 1F per 1000 watts? I'm not 100% sure what the capcell thing is either...I was hoping someone knew. It sounds like a cap and battery in one box. Not sure if I want that in my system.

As far as capacitors, back in the 90's, "they" claimed .5 farad per 1000 watts. Then "they" started recommending 1 farad per 1000 watts in the early 2000's. Now it's a bare minimum 1 farad per 1000 watts.... I usually like 2 farad per 1000 watts. However, I rarely use capacitors in installs. If I am doing a decent sized setup, I will use a 15 or 30 farad Stinger hybrid capacitor. In my experience, I have never had real good luck with capacitors.

Looneybomber wrote:No one's mentioned upgrading the alternator. What's the capacity of the stock G35 alternator?

Also, ~850w per 10" that's not a w7? Why so much?

It's VERY rare people upgrade their alternator. It is ultimately the best thing to do. However, cost is really high, and the vehicle applications are not that plentiful.

joe603 wrote:The amp is rated at 150amps.

I'll be running 2 10W6's...just don't want them to be underpowered. I don't want them to burn up...but then again, I don't blast the stereo all the time.

I'm looking at the MTX 1500 and JL 1000/1...the MTX will be easier to integrate with its high level input.

I would easily recommend the JL Audio over the MTX. Which MTX model exactly are you looking at? What are you looking to spend? The high level input is the last thing you should worry about. Sorry I never emailed you last night. I ran out of steam answering emails. It seems we are getting your questions answered here though.

Toby

I'm looking to spend less on this system than I did on my last system. I must say that the prices on these websites are much lower that I was expecting...

The MTX TE1501d

http://www.dealercostcaraudio.....aspx

I've had really good luck with MTX...but I'm not closed off to the JL 1000/1v2, just not sure it's worth the extra $200.

http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/10001v2.aspx

joe603 wrote:I must say that the prices on these websites are much lower that I was expecting...

Well, you have to be careful with these sites. First off, they are not authorized dealers. Which means warranty claims could be a nightmare. JL Audio and a lot of other companies will NOT warranty product if it's not from an authorized dealer. There is a reason some of it is so cheap. A lot of the product is B-stock. B-stock is a unit that was previously owned, the unit went bad, it was sent in for warranty exchange, the manufacturer repairs it, then resells it as a B-stock unit for cheaper than the original cost. So these internet sites gobble these up because it costs them less and usually the items appear to be new. The product will actually come like new in the box, sealed and everything. Sometimes the manufacturer will slap a "B-stock" sticker on the bottom of the amplifier. Of course these internet sites will simply open the box and remove the sticker. In this case they don't claim that the unit is factory sealed new. However, these stickers are rare, so the site can simply claim it as new.

I get a lot of customers that bring in their own gear for me to install. They buy it off these sites or Ebay...... and sometimes there isn't even serial #'s on the units.

Or, if the product is indeed new, the salesman will refuse to let you leave without selling you other crap so they can actually make some money. You buy the amplifier on their site, but then you receive an email stating that you need to call them to verify your order. So when you call them, they give you the run around and tell you that it's not available, and they try to sell you something else. I tried to buy a 50D Canon camera from a place like this and the same thing happened. I had to call them to verify the order and it went down-hill real quick from there. I was furious and appalled that a place could do business like this. They told me the only way they would refund my money without a restocking fee(on product they hadn't even shipped out yet mind you) was if I left them good feedback on resellerratings.com and another similar site. So I did, but then I went back and edited it after they refunded my card.... idiots. I ripped them a new one on the edit.

I got to looking at the specs on the MTX and realized how noisy that thing is..... it's actually pretty bad compared to the JL. Actually, it's not even close to the same quality. The MTX has a Total Harmonic Distortion of less than .5%. The JL is less than .05%.... that's a hundred times more for the MTX. The MTX has a signal to noise ratio of 69dB. The JL Audio is 95dB. A real important spec is Damping Factor, which the MTX doesn't even list.... they may be afraid to publish it on their site!?! The MTX will only output rated power at 14.4 volts. The JL Audio will output rated power all the way down to 11 volts! The JL will also output rated power at any impedance between 1.5 ohm and 4 ohm. I will say though that these numbers, aside from the rated power at a particular voltage, are not quite as important since this is just for running subs. The Damping Factor is important, but unfortunately MTX does not publish that on their site.

Broadfield wrote:It's VERY rare people upgrade their alternator. It is ultimately the best thing to do. However, cost is really high, and the vehicle applications are not that plentiful.

Well, why not work with what you have? If the stock alt. is let's say 80A, then what good does it do to buy an amp that'll draw 150A? Why not stick with something more reasonable between 75-100A and keep from wearing the alt. as fast?

Broadfield wrote:The MTX has a Total Harmonic Distortion of less than .5%. The JL is less than .05%.... that's a hundred times more for the MTX.

Actually, it's 10x, not 100x because you only have to move the decimal point one place.

Also, I'd like to see it third party tested to get real distortion numbers at various frequencies, because frequency plays a big part on distortion. 10hz will be different than 50hz will be different than 1khz.

*edit* and not just that amp, but all amps in general. Both amps I have (for the house) have been third party tested and they certainly differ from the posted specs.
Modified by Looneybomber at 8:22 AM 4/4/2010

That's a good point. My last MTX amp came with a "birth sheet" and all the specs were much better than the norms. Plus, this is a sub amp...don't need that much fidelity to push air.

I've done more research and those subs don't need 500 RMS watts...in fact that is in the black according to JL. So, the 500/1 or the HD750 are the amps I'm looking at now. They both also take speaker-level inputs so that is no longer a concern.

So, the system choices are now:

10W6V2HD750/1 or500/1v2

or

Rockford Fosgate:

Power T110D4Power T1000-1bd

I've also toyed with the idea of replacing the Bose amp with aftermarket...thoughts on that?

Looneybomber wrote:Actually, it's 10x, not 100x because you only have to move the decimal point one place.

Modified by Looneybomber at 8:22 AM 4/4/2010

Hahaha, oops good call. I was looking at the specs of a bunch amplifiers at the time and one of them was .005%. I got my specs mixed up and typed the wrong thing. Having bachelors degrees in mathematics and physics, you think I would have caught that.

Looneybomber wrote:Well, why not work with what you have? If the stock alt. is let's say 80A, then what good does it do to buy an amp that'll draw 150A? Why not stick with something more reasonable between 75-100A and keep from wearing the alt. as fast?Modified by Looneybomber at 8:22 AM 4/4/2010

Yeah, but that alternator can output that amperage at a constant rate. That amplifier that draws 150A is only doing it for tenths of seconds at a time while listening to regular music.... and that's if your preamp voltage is at full tilt. At normal listening volume it's drawing no more than 30 - 50A..... and that's still at only tenths of seconds at a time. If he drives around listening to 45 hertz test tones all day with the volume cranked, then we are going to have issues.

Since 1993, I have personally done around 25,000 vehicles. That doesn't count what my other installers have done in those 17 years. We have only done a handful of upgraded alternators for customers in that time..... and it's been pretty rare that a customer has burned up their stock alternator even with a couple 2000 watt amplifiers. Those will obviously have a battery or two as backups and a 30 farad hybrid capacitor. But don't discount the fact that I always preach a bigger alternator is the only true solution for proper current delivery. It's just that I live and deal with people in the real world.... they don't have the extra $1000+ for an upgraded alternator.

joe603 wrote:I've done more research and those subs don't need 500 RMS watts...in fact that is in the black according to JL. So, the 500/1 or the HD750 are the amps I'm looking at now.

I'm glad you finally saw the light. I didn't bother trying to talk you into less power because it looked as if you were originally set on 2200 watts. I was happy to see you were looking at the 1000/1 Slash. That would of been a perfect amplifier for two 10W6's. Now you are looking at even less power. I personally wouldn't dip as low as 500 watts, but that's just me. I am thinking 750 - 1000 watts for the pair.

joe603 wrote:So, the 500/1 or the HD750 are the amps I'm looking at now. They both also take speaker-level inputs so that is no longer a concern.

Uh, neither one of them take speaker level inputs. I hope your not getting your info from one of those internet sites. And only the Slash series mono-blocks have signal sensing.... the HD's do not.

joe603 wrote:I've also toyed with the idea of replacing the Bose amp with aftermarket...thoughts on that?

I am obviously going to recommend getting rid of that Bose crap, but I would also suggest replacing the Bose speakers. The other thing you have to watch out for is whether or not the x-overs for the Bose tweeters are an inline cap on the tweeter or built into the Bose amplifier. Because if they are built into the amplifier, then you are most likely going to need to replace the Bose speakers. Unfortunately I can't remember which it is, but you could find out by simply removing your tweeter and looking on the back of it.

Broadfield wrote:
Uh, neither one of them take speaker level inputs. I hope your not getting your info from one of those internet sites. And only the Slash series mono-blocks have signal sensing.... the HD's do not.

I read it on a JL Audio brochure while waiting for my car tint to be finished...said plain as day, accepts speaker level input (for OEM integration). Asked the install tech and he said he's done plenty of installs that use high-level inputs for the HD and /v2 amps.

Here's a paragraph from the owners manual: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/13320.pdf

Input Voltage Range: A wide range of signal input voltages can be accommodated by the 500/1v2’s input section (200mV – 8V). This wide range is split up into two sub-ranges, accessible via switches located in the “Amplifier Input Section” of the amplifier. The “Low” position on the “Input Voltage” switch selects an input sensitivity range between 200mV and 2V. This means that the “Input Sens.” rotary control will operate within that voltage window. If you are using an aftermarket source unit, with conventional preamp-level outputs, this is most likely the position that you will use. The “High” position on the “Input Voltage” switch selects an input sensitivity range between 800mV and 8V. This is useful for certain high-output preamp level signals as well as speaker-level output from source units and small amplifiers. To use speaker-level sources, splice the speaker output wires of the source unit or small amplifieronto a pair of RCA cables or plugs or use theJL Audio ECS Speaker Wire

Broadfield wrote:
I am obviously going to recommend getting rid of that Bose crap, but I would also suggest replacing the Bose speakers. The other thing you have to watch out for is whether or not the x-overs for the Bose tweeters are an inline cap on the tweeter or built into the Bose amplifier. Because if they are built into the amplifier, then you are most likely going to need to replace the Bose speakers. Unfortunately I can't remember which it is, but you could find out by simply removing your tweeter and looking on the back of it.

The 2009 G37 uses 1 Bose amp mounted in the rear deck for all speakers...not amp per speaker. I've heard of those setups before...but according to the FSMs, that's not how its done.

Sorry, I was referring to the fact that it doesn't have "speaker level" inputs like some of the other amplifiers you were looking at. In other words it doesn't accept speaker wire as the high level input..... it's only RCA type connectors. I have had plenty of issues where the signal is still too hot, especially in OEM amplified systems. So I still use a nice hi/low converter just to be safe. I guess I wasn't very clear on that. Still keep in mind that the HD series do not have signal sensing turn-on.

As far as your Bose, you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying there was an "amplifier" on the back of the speaker, I am talking about a x-over. Which would be in the form of a small capacitor. So if there isn't a x-over on the back of the tweeter, then that means there has to be a x-over built into the amplifier. So if you remove the Bose amplifier, then your tweeter will no longer be crossed over once you add the aftermarket amplifier. You could add your own capacitor to it, or you would have to buy an amplifier that had a high-pass x-over section that went up to 4k -5k hertz..... which isn't always that common. You would then also have to run each individual speaker off a different channel if you used the built in x-over.
Modified by Broadfield at 11:14 PM 4/5/2010

Thanks Toby! What brand high/low converters do you recommend? So you really think the 1000/1v2 amp is the best choice for 2 10W6v2's? I wish JL made an 800W amp...400 per speaker seems to be what they want. I just want the best amp for the application.

What about the rockford amps?

What size power wire/capacitor do you recommend? (for 1000W systems) Would 4ga be OK or should I do 2ga?

I'm probably pulling the trigger in a few weeks, so I have some time to engineer this thing!

Joe, don't worry about high to low converters. You can get a low level signal before the amp, and cut out a little bit of the bose processing. I was constantly cutting off one end of rca cables and soldering them to the signal wires. There's also a turn on signal so you won't have to worry about signal sensing.

I still need to use the amp for the other speakers. If I take the signal before the amp, will it affect its operation? (I assume you mean tapping off).

I think I might be wrong on how the system is designed. Here is a diagram...you can see that the woofer has both signal input and turn-on from the Bose amp. That tells me that the woofer must have a separate amp! So using those signals should be low-level right??

Here's further proof that the sub on the G37 sedans have their own amp!

Now I'm not limited to high-level inputs or remote turn-on's...they are provided by the Bose amp to the woofer amp! I'll just disconnect the woofer amp and use those inputs.